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Distance ignoring stuff is the Spear's inherent property. Meaning both Reinhard and Rindou can use it
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Silver Surfer vs Reinhard Heydrich
- Thread starter -BANLK-
- Start date
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Try Wolfgang in Kei's route he was in Briah and you know the faster than you crap yet Valeria caught him off-guard and stabbed him from behind to the point it surprised even wolfgang when he used the spear
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@Redgrave Wolfgang didn't consider Valeria to be his opponent in that fight, so his ability wouldn't have made him faster than Valeria, while Valeria did consider Wolfgang to be his enemy, so the spear would have moved faster than Wolfgang. And look at the image for Valeria killing Schreiber:
Does this look like he is ignoring distance with a spear to hit him?
@Fabtastic Glasses it sure doesn't seem to be an inherent quality. And even if it is, so what? Just because something is inherent to a weapon doesn't mean everyone can use it. I couldn't use a RPG to save my life, even if its inherent quality is "shoot a missile"
Does this look like he is ignoring distance with a spear to hit him?
@Fabtastic Glasses it sure doesn't seem to be an inherent quality. And even if it is, so what? Just because something is inherent to a weapon doesn't mean everyone can use it. I couldn't use a RPG to save my life, even if its inherent quality is "shoot a missile"
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@Monarch
Do recall the fact that Dies Irae is a visual novel. It's damn hard to show motion through nearly still pictures.
The Shinza Bansho wiki also states that Velerian hit Schrieber with the Longinuslanze first to remove him from the LDO's ceremony before shoving his hand through his chest. Thus rendering your argument kind of moot.
Do recall the fact that Dies Irae is a visual novel. It's damn hard to show motion through nearly still pictures.
The Shinza Bansho wiki also states that Velerian hit Schrieber with the Longinuslanze first to remove him from the LDO's ceremony before shoving his hand through his chest. Thus rendering your argument kind of moot.
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Au contrair, my argument is not moot at all. So the picture shows the bit after Shreiber is hit. A single wrong picture in no way defeats my argument.
I have already said the reasons why the Longinus hit Wolfgang, while none of you have provided any evidence to me of Reinhard's abiltiy to ignore distance with the Longinus other than "his successor could", which in no way garantees that he can. Successors often have an ability to mark them as different to their predecessors in fiction, this is likely simply Rindou's.
Find me a translation showing Reinhard ignoring distance and I shall surrender the point.
I have already said the reasons why the Longinus hit Wolfgang, while none of you have provided any evidence to me of Reinhard's abiltiy to ignore distance with the Longinus other than "his successor could", which in no way garantees that he can. Successors often have an ability to mark them as different to their predecessors in fiction, this is likely simply Rindou's.
Find me a translation showing Reinhard ignoring distance and I shall surrender the point.
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@Monarch
On the contrary, the picture you provided is proof enough. If the Longinuslanze did not work the way we described, then Wolfgang would not have been hit as the picture shows Wolfgang with his Briah activated (his hair lengthened, which is a sign of his "true" Briah). If it did not move at Infinite speed, neither would ever reach the other as they would be in a never-ending loop of speed boosts.
On the contrary, the picture you provided is proof enough. If the Longinuslanze did not work the way we described, then Wolfgang would not have been hit as the picture shows Wolfgang with his Briah activated (his hair lengthened, which is a sign of his "true" Briah). If it did not move at Infinite speed, neither would ever reach the other as they would be in a never-ending loop of speed boosts.
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You... didn't read my post properly did you.
Wolfgang's ability lets him always be faster than his opponent. Except when Valeria killed him, Wolfgang was fighting Ren and Ren's allies, not Valeria. Valeria was not Wolfgang's opponent, and thus Valeria and Longinus could still be faster than Wolfgang.
The photo shows Valeria impaling Wolfgang with his hand. All that shows is Valeria managed to dazed him with the hit, or possibly just plain old PIS for being able to catch Wolfgang when Wolfgang was in Briah.
Wolfgang's ability lets him always be faster than his opponent. Except when Valeria killed him, Wolfgang was fighting Ren and Ren's allies, not Valeria. Valeria was not Wolfgang's opponent, and thus Valeria and Longinus could still be faster than Wolfgang.
The photo shows Valeria impaling Wolfgang with his hand. All that shows is Valeria managed to dazed him with the hit, or possibly just plain old PIS for being able to catch Wolfgang when Wolfgang was in Briah.
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His law was "I won't let anyone touch me". And plus everyone is MHS+ even Valeria but Wolfgang with briah is at least sub-rel so valeria CANNOT keep up with him even and also:
Infinite attack speed with Vanaheimr - Goldene Schwan Lohengrin
Valeria's speed increases in a way to infinite attack speed so Wolfgang had no chance to react with his briah only because he had Reinhard's body allowing him to bypass the distance with the spear.
Infinite attack speed with Vanaheimr - Goldene Schwan Lohengrin
Valeria's speed increases in a way to infinite attack speed so Wolfgang had no chance to react with his briah only because he had Reinhard's body allowing him to bypass the distance with the spear.
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The belief is "I won't let anyone touch me". The power is "I'm faster than my opponent". Same way "I want to be the light guiding my comrades" translates to "I turn into lightning" and "I love everything" turns into "summon a giant teleporting hell castle". The desire is not literally the same as the power.
Valeria has infinite attack speed with V-GSL because the spear ignores the concept of distance, which is exactly what I'm arguing against. Your argument there is quite literally "A=X. X is true because A is true"
"increases in a way to infinite attack speed"
Explain what way you mean please
Valeria has infinite attack speed with V-GSL because the spear ignores the concept of distance, which is exactly what I'm arguing against. Your argument there is quite literally "A=X. X is true because A is true"
"increases in a way to infinite attack speed"
Explain what way you mean please
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Ik it's flowery but in the page it clearly states what Fenriswolf does
And again Valeria is using the body of the wielder to use the same spear and are you saying that Valeria has something Reinhard will never had?
I mean his attack speed is increased to infinite because of the spear
And again Valeria is using the body of the wielder to use the same spear and are you saying that Valeria has something Reinhard will never had?
I mean his attack speed is increased to infinite because of the spear
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"Schreiber's Gudou-type Briah, his desire being "I do not want to be touched by anyone". When Nilfheimr Fenriswolf is active, he has the permanent effect of always moving faster than his opponent no matter their speed"
Yes this is quite clear. The desire is "I do not want to be touched by anyone" and the effect is "always moving faster than his opponent". Thank you for validating my point.
I'm not saying Valeria can do something that Reinhard can't. I'm saying Valeria can't do something that Reinhard can't either.
His attack speed is increased to infinite because it ignores distance. By ignoring distance it hits instantly. That is why his attack speed is infinite. This is also what I'm arguing against.
Yes this is quite clear. The desire is "I do not want to be touched by anyone" and the effect is "always moving faster than his opponent". Thank you for validating my point.
I'm not saying Valeria can do something that Reinhard can't. I'm saying Valeria can't do something that Reinhard can't either.
His attack speed is increased to infinite because it ignores distance. By ignoring distance it hits instantly. That is why his attack speed is infinite. This is also what I'm arguing against.
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Not gonna comment in the match itself, just leaving here the fact that saying Kemono-dono cannot make Longinus skip distance is absolutely ridiculous. For one, we see Valeria using this property of the spear various times, including when he killed Schreiber (only way he could actually be hit, and we saw a CG of Longinus before Schreiber was killed).Valeria is not the true wielder of it, using it only via his Briah which only grants a limited use, and while the spear itself is nerfed on top of that.
Second, the Rindou argument is completely asinine. "A successor must be different", lmao. The only thing Rindou is a successor to Kemono-dono is being a Hadou type in terms of Craving and using Longinus. To say she is a carbon copy of him is utter bullshit.
Second, the Rindou argument is completely asinine. "A successor must be different", lmao. The only thing Rindou is a successor to Kemono-dono is being a Hadou type in terms of Craving and using Longinus. To say she is a carbon copy of him is utter bullshit.
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I've already given reasons as to why Valeria being able to hit True Briah Wolfgang with Longinus is possible without it ignoring distance. If you choose not to read that, that's not my problem. Him using a nerfed spear shouldn't change an inherent property of it, as you claim its ability to skip distances is, only reduce its power.
"A successor must be different" Never said that, only that they frequently were in fiction. I never said she was a carbon copy of him. But this is the Longinus in the future. For all you know she just managed to work out a new ability. Maybe it only ignores distance when its a a girl wielded it or something, lol.
Are you actually trying to tell me that something as significant as "ignores the concept of distance and hits instantly" would be ignored in favour of "chases forever while being faster" in Dies Irae? You don't think that hitting instantly makes Beatrice (edit: I mean Elenore) and Wolfgang's briah's attributes utterly redundant and thus completely unnecessary to speak about if Masada could have instead just said Longinus hits instantly?
Now that... is asinine.
You guys are the ones claiming that Longinus can skip distances, and so the burden of proof is on you. Thus far I've refuted all your circumstantial evidence, and no one has brought any solid evidence of Reinhard ignoring distance with it to me. Bring me translations of all the times Reinhard has used the Longinus, and described its abilities in Dies Irae. You don't even need to read through them, I'll do that myself, and if I find something that blatantly proves me wrong, I'll concede the argument. But until then, I see no reason why Reinhard can ignore distance.
"A successor must be different" Never said that, only that they frequently were in fiction. I never said she was a carbon copy of him. But this is the Longinus in the future. For all you know she just managed to work out a new ability. Maybe it only ignores distance when its a a girl wielded it or something, lol.
Are you actually trying to tell me that something as significant as "ignores the concept of distance and hits instantly" would be ignored in favour of "chases forever while being faster" in Dies Irae? You don't think that hitting instantly makes Beatrice (edit: I mean Elenore) and Wolfgang's briah's attributes utterly redundant and thus completely unnecessary to speak about if Masada could have instead just said Longinus hits instantly?
Now that... is asinine.
You guys are the ones claiming that Longinus can skip distances, and so the burden of proof is on you. Thus far I've refuted all your circumstantial evidence, and no one has brought any solid evidence of Reinhard ignoring distance with it to me. Bring me translations of all the times Reinhard has used the Longinus, and described its abilities in Dies Irae. You don't even need to read through them, I'll do that myself, and if I find something that blatantly proves me wrong, I'll concede the argument. But until then, I see no reason why Reinhard can ignore distance.
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Yeah but we're talking MASSIVELY faster than light, like above it by thousands of times, not to mention he still can warp or skip dimensions. I get that it's reality warping but saying reality warping is able to out do anything is part of why NLF even exists lol. The warping here would be a MUCH greater extent than anything that's canon.
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Ignoring the concept of distance seems to be up for debate, but regardless, when comparing
<planet level attack level to >solar system durability
<Light speed to multiple thousands of times lightspeed
and saying 'yeah thats a definite one shot'
Im having trouble seeing how it isn't NLF.
<planet level attack level to >solar system durability
<Light speed to multiple thousands of times lightspeed
and saying 'yeah thats a definite one shot'
Im having trouble seeing how it isn't NLF.
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Always being faster than his opponent is a valid ability of the Longinus thanks to Wolfgang, as is its ability to erase the history of whatever it hits thanks to Machina. The spear might not be strong enough to get through solar system durability, but its hax is.
Still doesn't ignore distance though
Still doesn't ignore distance though
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Reinhard for reasons above
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Not commenting given how a bit crazy this thread was concerning Kemono-dono's powers a while back, but what is the current vote tally here?
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Ah yes, he does.
@Everyone else: What does everyone else think here given the new update to Surfer?
@Everyone else: What does everyone else think here given the new update to Surfer?
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In-character at least, yes.
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IDK. The resistances for even those like Kemono-dono and Kuubou (irrelevant to the thread, i know) only takes them far.
Reinhard could still resist some of Surfers hax but over time, he may get overwhelmed as long as Reinhard doesn't send out every single one of his Legion of souls at Surfer, though that wouldn't matter given Surfers ability to destroy souls....i guess.
But i'm leaving everything to those who have commented here. Kind of hard to say when you have someone like Reinhard face someone as haxxy as him more or less...
Reinhard could still resist some of Surfers hax but over time, he may get overwhelmed as long as Reinhard doesn't send out every single one of his Legion of souls at Surfer, though that wouldn't matter given Surfers ability to destroy souls....i guess.
But i'm leaving everything to those who have commented here. Kind of hard to say when you have someone like Reinhard face someone as haxxy as him more or less...
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Just saying, really. Though even i have yet to know the full capabilities of Base Kemono here...of his resistances, i mean.
