Scott Pilgrim Discussion Thread | Nov. 19th, 2023

[AParticularInduvidial]

After the release of Scott Pilgrim: Takes Off, I felt like having a proper thread for the discussion of the whole series would be a great idea.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

I think the big thing worth discussing is whether Takes Off is canon to the comics or not. While I noticed a few changes such as Crash and the Boys not being at the Rockit and the original events of Scott and Kim meeting being an official event that happened (her being kidnapped), those might just be retcons for the sake of adapting an older project roughly twenty years old.

 

[Cropfist]

There is no way this co-exists with the comic's timeline

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

I've heard some people claim that Bryan said this was an alternate timeline (I guess Scott Pilgrim has a multiverse of sorts now), but I don't know where that was stated.

 

[LoudCloud]

The author confirmed on instagram that the comics, movie and anime all have separate timelines.

 

[LoudCloud]

BTW, @AParticularInduvidial I’ll probably be very busy these next few months to properly talk about it. But I just wanted to extend a hand. I’m the guy who created the Scott Pilgrim Verse page and most of the character profiles, calcs etc. back when this series only had one unfinished profile. It’s good to see someone else be as active as I was. So welcome!

I see you’ve been posting new forums about the series, though I do notice you’ve re-opened a lot of debates that were settled ages ago. Oh well no harm, I’m sure we can discuss them further when we have the time.

Edit: Oh and just to add this; I’ve been thinking recently about making separate profiles for the comic, movie, video game and anime versions of the characters. Some of them already have comic and movie profiles but even those mix-up a lot of things (for example Todd’s comic profile mentions powers that only movie Todd had).
I got a potential feat/calc for the video game and another for the anime but I won’t be able to devote any time to them right now.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Watched the series, it was really good! I'm so glad it wasn't just another adaptation, we already have two of those (movie and game). I'll definitely help make profiles

As for scaling stuff, some stuff I noticed;

• I think the strongest feat is Even Older Scott creating a massive crater. All of the Evil Exes, Knives, Scott, and Ramona take hits from and damage him, so everyone should be fairly equal
• Other feats include Lucas tearing through metal and making explosions (in his centric episode) and Matthew going through metal walls and doors (episode 2)
• Ramona and Roxie have Immersion for entering TV shows
• Knives has forcefields

I think they're easily all Late Tier 9/Early Tier 8, just need a few calcs

Profiles to make are; Scott, Old Scott, Even Older Scott, Ramona, Old Ramona, Even Older Ramona, Super Ramona, Knives, Matthew, Lucas, Todd, Roxie, Twin's Robot, and Gideon

 

[LoudCloud]

I might have to re-check the scene but it seemed to me that Even Older Scott could easily defeat Todd Ingram (and unlike previous versions, this Todd had no reason for holding back in the fight).

Seeing as Todd still has his moon-punching feat in the anime, and seeing as Even Older Scott scales only slightly above characters like Scott, Ramona and the others (who put up a good fight despite being weaker), it’s fully possible this might be the first version of the series where the main cast seems to genuinely scale to full-power Todd and his moon-punching feat! Though the moon-punch may need its own calc as the moon looks slightly different to other versions.

I should mention I myself have always upholded that Scott doesn’t directly power-scale to Todd in the comics/movie. But in this particular anime all the reasons for why they don’t scale seem to no longer be present (as far as I remember).


I should also mention 2 other things I noticed about the anime that were different to the comics:
1. Most exes seem to be somewhat evenly matched in this version. Even Matthew Patel could take Gideon on in a fight and win, and he seemed to have a level of control over his mystical powers that previous versions didn’t display. I recall this seemed true for all the exes, none of which seemed significantly weaker than the other (unlike the comics).
2. There isn’t much in terms of speed feats here. I might be misremembering but I feel this version has even less clear speed feats than the comic. But maybe I wasn’t looking close enough.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Seeing as Todd still has his moon-punching feat in the anime

We don't actually get to see it

EDIT: Yeah, just rewatched the scene. Ramona brings it up, but we don't see the hole itself. No way to calc it

 

[LoudCloud]

I remember clearly seeing that it had 2 big visible holes, just like the comic/movie. Could we not use that to calc something?

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Yeah, it's shown in Subspace rather often.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

BTW, @AParticularInduvidial I’ll probably be very busy these next few months to properly talk about it. But I just wanted to extend a hand. I’m the guy who created the Scott Pilgrim Verse page and most of the character profiles, calcs etc. back when this series only had one unfinished profile. It’s good to see someone else be as active as I was. So welcome!

Hey! Thanks a lot for your recognition! I currently have a Sandbox here:

AParticularInduvidial/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

I've actually been trying to get feedback on it, if that's something you could do when you have the time! Again, thank you for your recognition.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Also, I recall Even Older Scott stating he had studied and mastered the powers of all the characters, including the Vegan Powers.

 

[Cropfist]

Most exes seem to be somewhat evenly matched in this version. Even Matthew Patel could take Gideon on in a fight and win, and he seemed to have a level of control over his mystical powers that previous versions didn’t display. I recall this seemed true for all the exes, none of which seemed significantly weaker than the other (unlike the comics).

Matthew stated that each ex was more powerful than the previous in ascending order.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Matthew stated that each ex was more powerful than the previous in ascending order.

And then he goes on to defeat Gideon anyways

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

And then he goes on to defeat Gideon anyways

He got a huge confidence boost after his fight wtih Scott is what allowed him to win

 

[LoudCloud]

Matthew stated that each ex was more powerful than the previous in ascending order.

That seems like something the story mentions just so it can subvert it later as a shock to the audience when we clearly see that Matthew can stand up to (and defeat) Gideon.

Even if we take that statement at face value, there's still some in-story explanations for why the statement is immediately contradicted:

• The power hierarchy may have been how the league was supposed to be set up by Gideon, only for him to underestimate how powerful the others really are. Pretty much everyone including Gideon is surprised at how powerful Matthew ended up being.
• As Matthew states, his confidence from "winning" the fight with Scott made him capable of defeating Gideon, implying a big power increase from his confidence.

And that's not at all to mention how the power hierarchy of the exes was dubious even in the comics, as Todd was far superior in raw power to the later exes.
Though this could be because the exes above him have advantages he doesn't, like having hax, being more emotionally-manipulative and being far more strategic/wise than Todd ever was. Also, Todd's brief flashback with Gideon implies Gideon was responding to Todd's lack of self-esteem as a vegan, so maybe that made Gideon consider putting him lower in the hierarchy?

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Well to be fair, while Matthew getting a confident boost to help him defeat Gideon is very clear (Characters getting amplified by their emotions is a staple of the series), I think the anime more or less showcases how close the exes are in power, which we see when they fight Even Older Scott.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

I don't know if that can be said for the comics or movie however (The anime does follow up mostly the comics though).

 

[LoudCloud]

Well to be fair, while Matthew getting a confident boost to help him defeat Gideon is very clear (Characters getting amplified by their emotions is a staple of the series), I think the anime more or less showcases how close the exes are in power, which we see when they fight Even Older Scott.

Yes, Matthew, Lucas and Todd are all treated as equals when fighting Even Older Scott. It's like we're seeing EO Scott fighting 3 equally-powerful fighters at the same time.

 

[LoudCloud]

I don't know if that can be said for the comics or movie however (The anime does follow up mostly the comics though).

I think the comics in comparison make the difference far more obvious. With Lucas mocking Matthew's power in comparison to the rest of the league, or when Roxie mentions the twins are more powerful than her upon dying. The only ones that seem like obvious exceptions are Todd when using his vegan powers, and you could argue the twins aren't as physically impressive as previous exes but their power mostly seems to come from their technology anyway.

 

[LoudCloud]

By the way, if anyone wants to calc Todd's moon-punching feat. I've saved a few scans from the anime that someone could use to calc it. But I can't remember how to share them on this site.

The shot of Todd after doing it gets us the best view of the moon, but the documentary episode does mention its just a recreation so maybe the other shots are more reliable to use.

 

[Cropfist]

Lucas might have dodged camera flashes in episode 4

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

I noticed that too. There's this one weird scene where pink and blue lights swirl towards Lucas. I don't know if that represents the flash of light or not, but both Lucas and Ramona avoided it.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Bump.

 

[LoudCloud]

If anyone wants to get on with calculating Todd's moon feat in the anime I have provided a bunch of screenshots of the moon here:

Just a heads up, the first one is stated to be a dramatic re-enactment of the feat in the interview scene its from, so I would avoid using that one for the calc in favour of the other screenshots (which show the actual moon during the events of the anime).