Sazed's tier

[Szmiit]

Sazed's tier is 4B. Shard's range of influence is one solar sistem without using aditional perpendicularities. He is also not abstract existance. He is just a vessel of Hanmony, not the concept. If his body(energy) gets used up he dies and concept takes another vesssel.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh-ho. It's been a while since I read the first trilogy and I haven't read a lot of the supplemental stuff about the Shards.

If you could give me the quotes that support this that would be fantastic.

I assume this wouldn't scale to The Lord Ruler, as he was only using a fraction of a fraction of the Shards' power?

 

[Szmiit]

1) About his range there is Q&A with the author

Sazed's range

Plus Honor, Cultivation and Odium that are the same type of beeing as Sazed and their area of effect is scattered around three diffrent planets in their system, but they are too locked in it.

Moreover creating planet from zero didn't used up that much of his power, since despite him beeing the only one shard who isn't just using a premade planet but a one made from scratch (because Preservation and Ruin wanted to lock eachother strongly unlike Autonomy) he still is twice as strong as other shards (For others: he absorbed two shards instead of one but the ones most used up. If that difference was significant though he wouldn't be twice as strong as Odium) (Also the comment is misleading, he can use this power, but it is usually opposed to every action from one or the other side).

Also E=mc^2 works in universe so he could just use it to create photons instead of atoms, and that would easily destrou everything there.

2) About Sazed not beeing abstract.

Plus Ati and Vin (previous vessels of Ruin and Preservation) died from energy (Investiture) depravation, and vessels changed.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That looks legit to me. I'll ask Monarch to take a look, maybe Wok and Apies as well.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Well, I'm not super familiar with the supplymentary material, but the quotes do seem to support the changes, so I'm cool with it.

Plus Ati and Vin (previous vessels of Ruin and Preservation) died from energy (Investiture) depravation, and vessels changed.

I do want to comment on this though. I was under the immpression the both of them died from the clash of energies being to much for the host bodies.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

1) That on its own appears to be more range than power, but considering it was like a tiny sliver of the weakened Preservation's power that let Rashek move the planet, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for Sazed to be able to move the rest of the planets at once.

However, I'm not sure if that would net 4-B however, as our typical measurement for the 4-B involves the energy of an explosion large enough to cover a solar system, not the energy necessary to move around all the planets in a solar system. Also, the sun is billion times larger than a planet.

So, I would be fine with upgrading the range and adding a further note to his AP justification about him being able to affect all the planets in the solar system, but not outright upgrading him to 4-B

2) Yeah that's fair. I was never sure about Sazed himself being abstract.

 

[Szmiit]

1) That on its own appears to be more range than power, but considering it was like a tiny sliver of the weakened Preservation's power that let Rashek move the planet, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for Sazed to be able to move the rest of the planets at once.

However, I'm not sure if that would net 4-B however, as our typical measurement for the 4-B involves the energy of an explosion large enough to cover a solar system, not the energy necessary to move around all the planets in a solar system. Also, the sun is billion times larger than a planet.

So, I would be fine with upgrading the range and adding a further note to his AP justification about him being able to affect all the planets in the solar system, but not outright upgrading him to 4-B

One of my points is that a tiny part of Harmony's power is enough to create a planet from nothing, and if it was used for creating photons what is possible since E=mc2 works, there would be a lot of power. Using Earth's mass as an approximation it we can assume he can easily create (5,972*10^24) *(299792458)^2=5.3673659e+41 Joules of energy. When I looked up the AP chart, I understood that I overestimated that power a bit. Since 4-B needs at least 2.277x10^45 I drop that claim. But it is almost 5.693x10^41 Joules that are lower bound for 4-B and creating a planet is not nearly end of Sazed's power, I would upscale him to 4-B or 4-B likely more.

Plus Ati and Vin (previous vessels of Ruin and Preservation) died from energy (Investiture) depravation, and vessels changed.

I do want to comment on this though. I was under the immpression the both of them died from the clash of energies being to much for the host bodies.
It wasn't really explained verry well. Author commented that ther fight was more of strangling each other while Odium fights by cutting away pieces of the Shard. Either way if they were abstract the host bodies would be irrelevannt.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I haven't checked the maths, but we don't generally use mass/eneergy conversion to measure the power of Creation feats unless it's noted in story to be measured that way. Only the size of what they create.

 

[Szmiit]

I haven't checked the maths, but we don't generally use mass/eneergy conversion to measure the power of Creation feats unless it's noted in story to be measured that way. Only the size of what they create.

Also E=mc^2 works in universe so he could just use it to create photons instead of atoms, and that would easily destrou everything there.

I know that it generally isn't used, but as I said before it is interchangable in universe. The shards are limited by E=mc^2, but they also have acces to it since energy is always conserved so they wont run out of it as fast if they create only photons.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Maybe. Seeing as that is less a matter of Mistborn and more a matter of how to apply the wiki's policy here, I'd prefer to get some other staff input.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

So, did we ever reach a consensus on this thread?

I feel like "5-B, likely 4-B" might be appropriate given the WoG.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I think everyone was in favor, but we just sorta forgot about it I guess.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I was personally not in favour of 4-B