Saint Seiya Revision

[Tivanenk]

Okay. This discussion is long due.

First of all, let's look at Hades. Currently, his durability in his true body is standing at Low 2-C. That's unwarranted in my opinion. We've never seen him in his true body fighting without his Surplice and there is nothing that would suggest that his body is weaker than his Surplice all of a sudden. Bump up his durability to 2-C.

Second of all, Poseidon. Why his True Body is standing at Low 2-C at this moment is beyond me. He's one of Athena's greatest adversaries (along with Ares and Hades) and his status as an emperor should make him as strong as Hades. He should be 2-C, especially if Athena's upgrade goes through.

Now, Athena. She's currently located at Low 2-C, but I think that she should be higher. Why? Well, first of all, the Goddess Nike, whom serves Athena, has already proved to have 2-C capabilities by tanking Hades' sword and penetrating through his Surplice. Athena shouldn't be lower than her as one of the important Olympians. Second, Athena's Aegis has also shown to be able to endure Hades' sword when he slashed at Seiya, trying to kill him (he recognized him as the Pegasus Saint whom killed him in the last war). Again, that's a 2-C feat.

Finally, Artemis should be moved up to 2-C for being able to match Athena.

We can discuss God Saints as well in this thread, if we need to.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Some things to add.


Anti-Pope Aiolos can destroy universes, that much is confirmed. Yet...





He still bows to his universe's version of Athena.

As for the deities, all Olympians and Titans are Low 2-C at a minimum. Here are some explanations relating to Eskatos Dunamis, the power of the Gods:


Com o verdadeiro poder dos grandes deuses... Com o poder que controla o mundo...

Translation:

With the true power of the great gods... With the power which controls the world...


O poder supremo que faz o universo expandir infinitamente. Essa é a fonte de nosso poder, os deuses. O Cosmo que só se permite ter aos deuses da destrui├º├úo: Eskatos Dunamis.

Translation:

The supreme power which makes the universe expand infinitely. This is the source of the power of us gods. The Cosmos allowed only to the gods of destruction: Eskatos Dunamis.


O poder de um deus é um mundo mesmo. Cada um dos Tit├ús tem um universo e um planeta que domina.

Translation:

The power of a god is the world itself. Each of the Titans has a universe and a planet he dominates.


E esse poder do Caos é que d├í origem ao universo e é a fonte do poder dos deuses. Eskatos Dunamis!

Translation:

And this power of Chaos is what brings origin to the universe and is the source of the gods' power. Eskatos Dunamis!

In short, each unsealed Titan, even the absolute weakest of them, holds the power of a Big Bang, or of an infinitely expanding space-time continuum. This is evidence that all major God is at least Low 2-C.

The Hypermyth says:

The Big Will (Or Great Will, or even Divine Will), liberated by the Big Bang, collided with with fragments of the Universe, forming the stars that shine in the skies and the vacuum of the space in which we live.

With many humans being born on Earth, came those who were capable of awakening the Big Will. If the manifestation of Cosmos happens through the Seventh Sense, then it can be said that the Big Will is the Super Sense that is far higher than all others.

The 9th Sense is the power of the Big Bang which created the universe.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Seems reasonable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am going to add feats for Hades and Apollo, hold on.

 

[Victor2]

seiya should be low 2-C if we`r upgrading hades body to 2-C at his peak

other god saints be high 3-A?

other than those im alwayse okay with saint seiya upgrades.

 

[Tivanenk]

Eh, scaling from Hades won't make a difference since his Surplice was already at 2-C. Aiolos, on the other hand, is more questionable, but we don't exactly know his potential yet other than the fact that he utterly stomped so far.

 

[Victor2]

figured the reason why seiya wasn`t at low 2-C was because hades body wasn`t 2-C, thus seiya would only be high 3-A for bringning pain to him. so upgrading hades body truely makes a diffrence as the feat would be low 2-C for seiya and other god saints helped in making him bleed aswell

 

[Cropfist]

Looks alright.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Almost done with scans.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, For Hades and Apollo.

With her Divine Shield Aegis, Athena can block attacks from Hades:




Though when Hades stops holding back, he knocks her down in one blow


Later, through a Miracle, Athena defeated Hades, piercing his armor and killing him. This is Athena at her maximum, and she can't do such feats without her Staff of Nike.





And of course, when Hades dies, The Underworld, Elysium and The Hyperdimensions, the universes he created and sustained through his will, collapse.


As for Apollo, this is what he does:

When he appears, both Athena and Artemis are terrified of him, and he views both as beneath him. He quickly immobilized Athena as was going to kill her then and there.


Seiya saves Athena from death with an attack, which Apollo dodges. Athena begs Seiya not to fight Apollo, because "Before Apollo's, our powers are insignificant."


Seiya charges against Apollo anyway, because giving up was the one thing he never learned... And Apollo responds by destroying the universe with a word ("Begone, filthy humans.")

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bump.

 

[Promestein]

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Reading Tivan's post and Matt's, this looks alright to me.

 

[Aparajita]

Is there an anime for this or only a manga? Support the upgrade, sounds reasonable.

Can someone explain what Cosmos and the "Senses" are for us non-Saint Seiya fans?

 

[Tivanenk]

Is there an anime for this or only a manga? Support the upgrade, sounds reasonable.
Can someone explain what Cosmos and the "Senses" are for us non-Saint Seiya fans?

There is an anime for this, though it slightly deviates from the manga (e.g. Asgard Arc). Still very good though.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I plan on explaining SS Mechanics one day in a Blog Post.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Anime has 114 episodes (i am currently watching it), there are a bunch of different mangas. I think matt wrote about cosmos and such somewhere don't remember where he posted it.

Cosmos is the power of the big bang i think and it is in within all things, 7th sense allows you to move at the speed of light, 8th sense give you complete control over your soul and allows you to ressurect from the dead, 9th sense not too sure i think it's only something gods have that allows them to warp reality or something as i said not too sure about that.

Matt or tiv can answer that.

 

[Tivanenk]

Anime has 114 episodes (i am currently watching it), there are a bunch of different mangas. I think matt wrote about cosmos and such somewhere don't remember where he posted it.
Cosmos is the power of the big bang i think and it is in within all things, 7th sense allows you to move at the speed of light, 8th sense give you complete control over your soul and allows you to ressurect from the dead, 9th sense not too sure i think it's only something gods have that allows them to warp reality or something as i said not too sure about that.

Matt or tiv can answer that.

Correction: 114 Episodes + 31 OVAs for the main series for a total of 145 Episodes.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

145? That's a lot is it filler cause if it is i would then just jump into the manga, wait i think after the classic anime is the poseidon saga or something next, hades is like the last i think? Whatever i will figure it out when i finally finish the original.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The entire manga is online in HD though, while the anime is nearly unwatchable in english up until the Hades OVAs due to lack of subs.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't really feel like reading the manga already 48 episodes in the anime. I am doing fine with the sub par subs, i understand what they are saying, perks of watching anime for over a decade, especially since it's shounen they always have similar lines.

 

[Victor2]

so what are results?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So, is everyone okay with this?

 

[Tivanenk]

Oh yeah, forgot one more thing, Matt: Hypnos. Should we upgrade him to 3-A due to being able to take a Pegasus Ryu Sei Ken from God Cloth Seiya as well as God Cloth Shun's chain?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

3-A Durability? Yes. Raw AP not, since he does it through hax.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So, can I make the edits?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What's the majority count in favor? From the last i saw, it looked quite enough to do them okay.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You, Prom, Tivanenk, Me and Celestial Pegasus are in favor.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Can I highlight this to get more Staff input?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Only 5? Damn, that's low.

I take it it's gonna affect a bunch of characters here, hmm? IDK but it may be best to do that? Just to get further input at least...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Did so.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

These changes make sense and the scans back them up properly.

 

[The_Everlasting]

These seem fine, except for one thing.

If I recall, wasn't 2-C Athena denied before because she only beat Hades through Probability Manipulation? Or am I misremembering?

This would also scale to Eris, if this is the case.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

Seem reasonable enough. The upgrade seem fine to me.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hades is still above her, yes, which is why we thought she was Low 2-C.

However, Hades' Three Universes Feat is a Low-Showing, since even the weakest Olympian / Titan qualifies for Low 2-C given the Ep G scans I linked, and Athena can endure hits from Hades with her shield and clash with him with her Staff.

Besides, as we have it, Hades is a Glass Canon which kinda makes little sense.

In short, even if Athena is weaker than Hades, she wields a weapon and shield which are 2-C by feats.

 

[Huesito88]

I heard the cosmos was like the force + something else I forgot

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this seems to make sense.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Just a minor thing about athena, the staff of nike should be linked to her profile so people can understand what it is, it's a bit of a pain having to search for it every time, also it should be upgraded along with athena to multi-universe level and remove the low multi-universe level durability, it has should just be multi-universe level, we don't use low multi-universe level here.

Also i think some explanations about athena's abilities should be added to give a better understanding of what she can do, she doesn't even have any notable techniques listed, i don't know a lot about athena but i think her probability manipulation should be there and an explanation that talks about how it has help her win impossible situations.

 

[Victor2]

gods seems fair to me also. but this would also effect the god saints. which i`m sure seiya would get upgraded to low 2-C and other god saints would have to be High 3-A since they had helped in injuring hades both body and surplic

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Low 2-C Seiya at peak is very much possible considering the damage he did to Hades. Other God Saints went from struggling with Hypnos to helping kill Hades so it's weird.