Sage Centipede 6-A durability

[Apeironaxim]

We assume a character's durability must scale to their physical AP. This makes sense, as otherwise they would heavily damage or even destroy themselves. And that should apply to Sage Centipede. He is currently 6-A via his Grand Drill attack. However, this attack has nothing special about it that would cause it to not scale to Sage Centipede's durability. He is effectively just spinning really fast, it's pure physicals. If he did not have 6-A durability, his body would tear itself apart. There is a note on his profile that attempts to explain this split:

Note: Sage Centipede's durability doesn't scale from its 6666 Leg Grand Drill, as the energy is vastly dispersed throughout its body and not focused in one place.

However, this note makes no sense here. Sage Centipede is currently Low 6-B via his size. Which would mean it's the energy needed for him to move his entire body. He has Low 6-B Striking Strength and Durability because of this. If this is the logic used so as to dismiss his Drill attack from scaling, then Low 6-B is not valid either, as it would just be the energy needed to move his body, and thus would be dispersed and not focused in one place as well.

Continent level with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and severely damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Metal Bat’s Savage Hurricane. Punched through Sage Centipede and ripped out his regeneration core)

There is also Garou's AP justifications for his 6-A rating. Note the first sentence in it. "severely damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton". He damaged him, and did not kill him. Yet Garou is supposed to be 6-A here. A 6-A, let alone two 6-A characters due to Metal Bat with Resonance, attacking a character with Low 6-B durability would not just damage them, it would destroy them.

Result:
With this, I propose Sage Centipede be given 6-A durability. I am not fully aware of all the other characters tiers this might potentially affect, but regardless, I feel it is obvious Sage should have his durability upgraded to 6-A.

 

[Kachon123]

I 100% agree with the OP.

 

[LordTracer]

Agreed.

This will only affect Metal Bat (with Fighting Spirit), Garou (his third key) and Evil Natural Ocean.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

I agree. If I'm not mistaken this would also make Metal Bat 6-A with just Fighting Spirit and then probably "Higher with Resonance", Garou would be up to 6-A in his Post-Darkshine Key, and "Higher with Resonance", and it would make Evil Ocean Water 6-A as well.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

Whoops Tracer said it first lol

 

[Cat275]

I agree.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Son of a bitch, I was thinking of creating a thread about the same thing last night

I agree

 

[Phoenks]

I was wondering why this attack got split into a different tier... It's literally a physical attack he does by spinning a little more. This should obviously scale to his base durability and I don't even think it requires much discussion.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Forgot to mention it in the OP, but im' pretty sure there's also another problem with that note. This is where Garou and Metal Bat repel/counter his Grand Drill attack. They're given 6-A for it, but they attack a relatively small portion of Sage's body when they do it. For them to be given 6-A for it, this would mean that Garou and Metal Bat's profiles already assume the 6-A energy is concentrated on a relatively small area, which directly contradicts the note

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It should be noted that if we follow the same logic Garou should be Low 5-B only through his "Extreme Power Attack"

 

[Duedate8898]

I agree with this revision.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agreed, seems straightforward.

 

[Epiccheev]

Agree FRA

 

[Ourosboros]

It has my vote as well, cosplaying as a drill is literally the closest a being like Sage can get to concentrating all the power normally spread across his massive body into one pin-point spot. It's straightforward to say most of the energy was in the very small area Metal Bat and Garou were clashing with

 

[Bernkastelll]

Agreed

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Metal Bat was using Resonance the whole time tho. He's not 6-A with Fighting Spirit.

Anyway damaging a small part of the body of something that is hundreds of kilometers long doesn't give you scaling. This is like saying a bee can scale to a human's strength because it can sting their skin.

 

[Cryo123]

All aboard the FRA train! I agree FRA.

 

[Ourosboros]

Metal Bat was using Resonance the whole time tho. He's not 6-A with Fighting Spirit.

Anyway damaging a small part of the body of something that is hundreds of kilometers long doesn't give you scaling. This is like saying a bee can scale to a human's strength because it can sting their skin.

Sage's own durability should scale, since he was able to channel hundreds of kilometers worth of kinetic energy into the tip of the drill, a drill that Metal Bat and Garou were able to parry. The situation is more analogous to a human throwing a rolling thunder kick at a bee and then the bee redirecting the kick mid-air.

A rolling thunder kick is the closest human analogy I could think of turning into a drill, point being it's near all the energy and momentum of the body being focused to a relatively small point.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

The situation is more analogous to a human throwing a rolling thunder kick at a bee and then the bee redirecting the kick mid-air.

That's certainly a funny thing to imagine.

 

[Ourosboros]

That's certainly a funny thing to imagine.

The bee analogy got me thinking of the bee movie, an MMA fighter throwing his best at a bee and losing because the bee knows super-aikido just seems like something that would fit the franchise

 

[Cryo123]

That's certainly a funny thing to imagine.

A mosquito already did it to Saitama lmao.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

A mosquito already did it to Saitama lmao.

The mosquito merely survived Saitama. It didn't counter or physically move him.

 

[Cryo123]

The mosquito merely survived Saitama. It didn't counter or physically move him.

It's mere exitence counters him lol.

It's clearly top of tier 0, with immeasurable/irrelevant speeds

 

[Therefir]

I would like to mention that Sage is Low 6-B normally because he was able to get his body fully off the ground, which means that Low 6-B energy is concentrated and supported by a few legs.

 

[Bernkastelll]

The bee analogy got me thinking of the bee movie, an MMA fighter throwing his best at a bee and losing because the bee knows super-aikido just seems like something that would fit the franchise

that man had the wife stealed by a bee

 

[Therefir]

Either way Sage was able to survive the combined attack of Garou and Metal Bat, which completely nullified his kinetic energy.

I always found it odd how we only scaled his durability to Low 6-B, so I agree with the upgrade.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I agree

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sage's own durability should scale, since he was able to channel hundreds of kilometers worth of kinetic energy into the tip of the drill, a drill that Metal Bat and Garou were able to parry. The situation is more analogous to a human throwing a rolling thunder kick at a bee and then the bee redirecting the kick mid-air.

The drill is fine but I'm talking about Metal Bat hitting it earlier. Metal Bat notes that the other S-Class people could hit it and damage its carapace as well, but that you'd need a countless number of them damaging the Centipede all across its body in order to do any real effect.

Meaning Metal Bat doesn't scale to the 6-A.

 

[Cryo123]

The drill is fine but I'm talking about Metal Bat hitting it earlier. Metal Bat notes that the other S-Class people could hit it and damage its carapace as well, but that you'd need a countless number of them damaging the Centipede all across its body in order to do any real effect.

Meaning Metal Bat doesn't scale to the 6-A.

Then wouldn't the S class still scale to High 6B? Also, if his pincers can handle 6A energy on a fine point, wouldn't the carapce have to be of similar strength?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Then wouldn't the S class still scale to High 6B? Also, if his pincers can handle 6A energy on a fine point, wouldn't the carapce have to be of similar strength?

That's literally an outlier for all of them except Tatsumaki and 10-second Genos.

The size difference between Metal Bat and Sage Centipede is orders of magnitude greater than that of a small bee and a human.

 

[Jibz]

Agree with the crt, and Mathew’s views.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

pmuB

 

[Ourosboros]

Forgot about this big centipede CRT what with all the cosmic happenings going on.

Agree: (12) Kachon, Tracer, Rocky Mountainjammer, Cat, LifeofKing, Phoenks, Duedate, Maverick, Epicheev, Ourosboros, Bernkastell, Cryo

Disagree: (1) Matthew

Neutral: (0)

What's still on the table. Matthew has argued that Metal Bat should not scale to the drill's full power given Sage's massive size to AP ratio.

 

[Ourosboros]

The drill is fine but I'm talking about Metal Bat hitting it earlier. Metal Bat notes that the other S-Class people could hit it and damage its carapace as well, but that you'd need a countless number of them damaging the Centipede all across its body in order to do any real effect.

Meaning Metal Bat doesn't scale to the 6-A.

Matthew, when Metal Bat made that statement about needing an army of s-class level guys to destroy it from head to tail, he was completely unable to harm Sage as both Sage and Garou stated.

So I think his opinion about s-class power levels at that point is irrelevant- he himself wasn't strong enough to do anything to Sage and couldn't judge what was needed to take him out. However, Metal Bat was able to harm Sage before resonance was explained so if this CRT passes Metal's AP and durability would be:

AP: At least Large Town level (Did better against Carnage Kabuto than an upgraded Genos in the VGS, but ultimately stood zero chance in this state), up to Continent Level with Fighting Spirit (Fought and pushed back Sage Centipede alongside Garou and later damaged Sage Centipede’s mandibles), higher with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and severely damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Garou's Cross Dragon Fang Slayer Fist)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

up to Continent Level with Fighting Spirit

No

The Fighting Spirit is not something concrete, it is something that varies depending on the amount of damage Bat receives. So it must be something like

Varies with Fighting Spirit (Bad's strength can increase according to the damage of his body), up to Continent level at peak

 

[LordTracer]

The Fighting Spirit is not something concrete, it is something that varies depending on the amount of damage Bat receives.

Yeah… that’s why he put it as ‘up to Continent level’ instead of just Continent level.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yeah… that’s why he put it as ‘up to Continent level’ instead of just Continent level.

Using only "Up to" can cause confusion, because it gives the feeling that Fighting Spirit can basically increase strength instantly to 6-A, which is not true

It doesn't hurt to add "Varies" to the tier, because this is the right one and is much more precise.

Characters that have similar abilities to Bad, such as Ban, use "Varies" as well for exemple

 

[LordTracer]

Using only "Up to" can cause confusion, because it gives the feeling that Fighting Spirit can basically increase strength instantly to 6-A, which is not true

I don’t recall the ‘up to’ rating ever meaning that someone can instantly bring their strength to that level, but k.

 

[Ourosboros]

Using only "Up to" can cause confusion, because it gives the feeling that Fighting Spirit can basically increase strength instantly to 6-A, which is not true

It doesn't hurt to add "Varies" to the tier, because this is the right one and is much more precise.

Characters that have similar abilities to Bad, such as Ban, use "Varies" as well for exemple

I meant the same thing you as do with "the up to" but if you want to add a varies to clarify, that's fine by me

 

[CosmicWreck]

I agree it should scale to his durability.