Reinhard vs Medaka

[Wandering_Bread]

Both 5-C.
Bloodlust.
Speed equal.

Reinhard van Astrea

Reinhard van Astrea is the current Sword Saint and a member of the Royal Guard, currently acting as Felt's knight. Reinhard became the Sword Saint at the age of 5, after which he immediately defeated his father, Heinkel Astrea, in a duel. He is extraordinarily powerful and stated to be the...

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Medaka Kurokami

Medaka Kurokami (黒神 めだか, Kurokami Medaka) is the female protagonist of the series Medaka Box. A freshman of Class 13, she was the 98th and later 99th Student Council president of Hakoniwa Academy. She is a childhood friend of Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, who she strong-arms into joining the Student...

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[SatellaTheWoE]

Since this is speed equal and bloodlusted and Medaka doesnt resists sleep hax, Reinhard's godly intuition will tell him to do a sleep hax + EE combo and since Medaka would likely go for a insta kill move Reinhard's perception boost + blitz amp would awaken giving him enough time to kill her first

 

[Robo432343]

ends in sex.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

ends in sex.

This one actually might

 

[Robo432343]

Since this is speed equal and bloodlusted and Medaka doesnt resists sleep hax, Reinhard's godly intuition will tell him to do a sleep hax + EE combo and since Medaka would likely go for a insta kill move Reinhard's perception boost + blitz amp would awaken giving him enough time to kill her first

why cant Medaka undo all of this will all fiction?

 

[Ikelaggan]

ends in sex.

 

[Ikelaggan]

why cant Medaka undo all of this will all fiction?

I don't think Medaka has feats of using all fiction while incaped.

 

[Robo432343]

I don't think Medaka has feats of using all fiction while incaped.

Medaka can resurrect herself with all fiction

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Medaka can resurrect herself with all fiction

All fiction doesnt have feats of reverting soul manipulation + she cant do anything while incapped

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

"Bloodlusted"

Okay... Does Reinhard resist Power Null that works by making his powers never exist in the first place? (Basically via Causality Manip)
If not, Reinhard gets all his powers nulled, and then she one shots because High 6-A dura, All Fiction is thought based btw.

Edit: He doesn’t resist Causality Manipulation so he is getting all of his stuff nulled because his powers just never exist to begin with so he is getting stomped ngl

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

All fiction doesnt have feats of reverting soul manipulation + she cant do anything while incapped

It's causality manipulation that operates on clear cut mechanics that would obviously inherently revert the damage irrespective of if it's done by soul manipulation

It's erasing an event to nullify it's outcome which by that very mechanic would obviously revert damage irrespective of whether it's soul damage or not since it's erasing the event in which the soul damage took place (technically not even neccesarily interacting with the soul manipulation itself but instead the events in which it took place) + It's also already has feats of working on more esoteric/abstract forces like time and concepts

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

"Bloodlusted"

Okay... Does Reinhard resist Power Null that works by making his powers never exist in the first place? (Basically via Causality Manip)
If not, Reinhard gets all his powers nulled, and then she one shots because High 6-A dura, All Fiction is thought based btw.

Edit: He doesn’t resist Causality Manipulation so he is getting all of his stuff nulled because his powers just never exist to begin with so he is getting stomped ngl

Missed the part where she gets insta incapled as soon as the match starts and loses?

It's causality manipulation that operates on clear cut mechanics that would obviously inherently revert the damage irrespective of if it's done by soul manipulation

It's erasing an event to nullify it's outcome which by that very mechanic would obviously revert damage irrespective of whether it's soul damage or not since it's erasing the event in which the soul damage took place (technically not even neccesarily interacting with the soul manipulation itself but instead the events in which it took place) + It's also already has feats of working on more esoteric/abstract forces like time and concepts

I call NLF because even reverting concepts doesnt mean you could revert another abstract thing like soul
And anywyas, she gets sleep haxed gg at the beginning of the fight anyway

 

[Robo432343]

I call NLF because even reverting concepts doesnt mean you could revert another abstract thing like soul
And anywyas, she gets sleep haxed gg at the beginning of the fight anyway

bruh u called NLF last time and it didn't work

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Missed the part where she gets insta incapled as soon as the match starts and loses?

She had her heart stopped and was pretty much dead and still woke up, honestly I’m surprised she doesn’t have Supernatural Willpower on her profile because Iihiko basically killed her and she somehow survived. Sleep Manip ain’t doing anything, and even if it does it will not be for long.

Unless his stuff is passive, Reinhard is done, gone, his powers no longer existing. Medaka is a damn monster in bloodlusted matches ngl.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I call NLF because even reverting concepts doesnt mean you could revert another abstract thing like soul
And anywyas, she gets sleep haxed gg at the beginning of the fight anyway

It does if the inherent mechanics of how the ability works would obviously include that

A soul doesn't get immunity/exception from a time stop or time rewinding simply because it's "abstract" in some sense so neither would it get an immunity to causality manipulation.

The ability has a clearly outlined mechanic by which it operate and that mechanic inherently would affect soul damage because effects of the soul don't have some property that makes them uninteractable to causality manipulation nor one that makes events involving them unchangeable through causality manipulation. All Fiction's application of erasing effects involves making a certain events in which the cause of that effect occurred cease to exist so unless soul damage just randomly cannot have events relating to it altered then it will be reverted.

By this logic every incorporeal being who exists as a soul would be considered by the wiki to have an immunity to causality manipulation but that's clearly not how the wiki treats such things

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bruh u called NLF last time and it didn't work

Their powers have questionable extrapolations so that isnt my fault

She had her heart stopped and was pretty much dead and still woke up, honestly I’m surprised she doesn’t have Supernatural Willpower on her profile because Iihiko basically killed her and she somehow survived. Sleep Manip ain’t doing anything, and even if it does it will not be for long.

Unless his stuff is passive, Reinhard is done, gone, his powers no longer existing. Medaka is a damn monster in bloodlusted matches ngl.

Supernatural willpower doesnt stop you from falling asleep tf
most rz characters also have SW and they would still fall asleep, it is not related to that at all
Oh and Reinhards powers are literally his physiology, his sword skill and the blessings can be regiven an infinite number of times with different variations so no, his powers wont be gone even if they get erased by AF

Snip

Its not that souls would be immune to causality hax BUT you would need to prove that your causality hax can bring back a soul from non existence because this is not destruction this is erasure. You could maybe bring back the body but it would be soul less and would either disintegrate or be stuck in a vegetative state

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Its not that souls would be immune to causality hax BUT you would need to prove that your causality hax can bring back a soul from non existence because this is not destruction this is erasure. You could maybe bring back the body but it would be soul less and would either disintegrate or be stuck in a vegetative state

It's causality hax, by erasing the event in which the soul hax occurred the damage caused by that would inherently be removed. It's not that complicated of a situation, unless stated otherwise the simple mechanics by which the causality hax is applied would allow it to bring back a the supposed erased soul because if the event of the soul being erased never occurred then the soul is not erased.

The causality hax doesn't need to be interacting with the soul itself nor does it need to have a struggle of hax between it and the soul hax itself because what it's targeting is the "event" in which the latter occurred, it is simply erasing the event in which the soul hax occurred thus inherently making such that the effects of that event retroactively never happened.

The causality hax isn't "bringing back a soul from nonexistence" in the sense of reforming it because what it does is simply make it so the fact that the soul was erased in the first place never happened thus automatically the effects of that cause would be cancelled out. If the soul was never erased to begin with in the past then it is a simple fact that soul isn't gone in the present.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Supernatural willpower doesnt stop you from falling asleep tf
most rz characters also have SW and they would still fall asleep, it is not related to that at all
Oh and Reinhards powers are literally his physiology, his sword skill and the blessings can be regiven an infinite number of times with different variations so no, his powers wont be gone even if they get erased by AF

Either way, Sleep Manip at the least will take a very long time to work because of Medaka's style is constantly pumping her blood (This is End God Mode key so she def has it). Also Medaka just makes the blessings never even exist to begin with or just erases him entirely instead ggs.

Edit: Also his blessings aren't going to ****** save him when they literally won't even exist to begin with??? Like, just because it's part of his physiology doesn't mean it can't be erased from it. That's just how All Fiction is, it works by making things just never happen. All Fiction itself can't even make things come back from becoming nothing.

Unless Reinhard has some smurf stuff or resistance to what All Fiction can do (which he doesn't on his profile), he is actually ******. Not like he resists being erased from existence anyway.

 

[Hiiilt]

i think sleep manip + ee would work but shouldn't medaka supernatural luck prevent reinhard 'godly intuition' from working? also since it's bloodlusted nothing stops medaka from starting with all fiction

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

but shouldn't medaka supernatural luck prevent reinhard 'godly intuition' from working? also since it's bloodlusted nothing stops medaka from starting with all fiction

Yes, it would. Her luck would make it so that Reinhard doesnt actually use sleephax nor EE as his first move, so she is free to fucc him up with AF.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

i think sleep manip + ee would work but shouldn't medaka supernatural luck prevent reinhard 'godly intuition' from working? also since it's bloodlusted nothing stops medaka from starting with all fiction

I feel like it should at the very least mess with the 'godly intuition'. It was argued in the Iihiko VS Reid thread that it wouldn't be as effective for some reason, but it should be effective enough here tbh, especially since Reinhard just has no answer to All Fiction, like at all.

 

[Hiiilt]

reinhard sleep manip works by draining his target mana but since medaka doesn't have mana it shouldn't work + even if it worked she has instinctive reaction and all fiction is faster

medaka stomps

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I doubt Reinhard's sleep manip would even be that effective even if it did work due to one of Medaka's styles constantly pumping her blood, she is not gonna sleep when that is happening.

Also yeah, All Fiction works faster and can just make his powers or worse even himself never exist to begin with.

(Medaka is more fun to debate when she's in character because she doesn't throw out haxes in character unless needed)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Snip

AF is broken frfr

Either way, Sleep Manip at the least will take a very long time to work because of Medaka's style is constantly pumping her blood (This is End God Mode key so she def has it). Also Medaka just makes the blessings never even exist to begin with or just erases him entirely instead ggs.

The amount of cope...
No, blood pumping wont stop her from getting sleep haxed because it doesnt target your blood to cause anemia in the first place and most people get adrelaine rushes during battle and they still get sleep haxed.

Edit: Also his blessings aren't going to ****** save him when they literally won't even exist to begin with???

they are type 8 and can be granted infinitely

Like, just because it's part of his physiology doesn't mean it can't be erased from it. That's just how All Fiction is, it works by making things just never happen. All Fiction itself can't even make things come back from becoming nothing.

Yeah and? I said Reinhard can get new blessings that do the same stuff

Unless Reinhard has some smurf stuff or resistance to what All Fiction can do (which he doesn't on his profile), he is actually ******. Not like he resists being erased from existence anyway.

Technically true but since AF cant affect souls he can just return with the blessing of the phoenix

i think sleep manip + ee would work but shouldn't medaka supernatural luck prevent reinhard 'godly intuition' from working? also since it's bloodlusted nothing stops medaka from starting with all fiction

Yes, it would. Her luck would make it so that Reinhard doesnt actually use sleephax nor EE as his first move, so she is free to fucc him up with AF.

Why would a luck based passive affect an ability that tells him the "correct answer". Atleast have some relation to it, he isnt a normal character who would spontaneously change decisions
The only time he doesnt follow his goldy intuition is when it can cause mass destruction..because yk, he doesnt wanna end the world

reinhard sleep manip works by draining his target mana but since medaka doesn't have mana it shouldn't work + even if it worked she has instinctive reaction and all fiction is faster

medaka stomps

Instinctive reaction doesnt help with sleep haxes unless shown otherwise (such as in the case of garou where he could fight after being knocked out although its debatable if that was instinctive action in the first place)
On the other part, no Reinharďs thought based hax would be faster because the ability to perception amp was so great that Cecilus at MH+ saw light moving at a snails pace which is MFTL. Cecilus also used that to train with a new sword that just got handed to him, in his mind for years and swung it hundreds of millions of times and absolutely mastered it. Then used that experience in the fight
Reinhard literally has years worth of time to go through his entire array of thought based haxes
Btw this also includes his Mind Manipulation blessing

 

[Hiiilt]

Why would a luck based passive affect an ability that tells him the "correct answer". Atleast have some relation to it, he isnt a normal character who would spontaneously change decisions

because that's how supernatural luck works? it would make his 'godly' intuition not work and not tell him the correct answer unless he has shown resistance to supernatural luck

Instinctive reaction doesnt help with sleep haxes unless shown otherwise (such as in the case of garou where he could fight after being knocked out although its debatable if that was instinctive action in the first place)
On the other part, no Reinharďs thought based hax would be faster because the ability to perception amp was so great that Cecilus at MH+ saw light moving at a snails pace which is MFTL. Cecilus also used that to train with a new sword that just got handed to him, in his mind for years and swung it hundreds of millions of times and absolutely mastered it. Then used that experience in the fight
Reinhard literally has years worth of time to go through his entire array of thought based haxes
Btw this also includes his Mind Manipulation blessing

his profile says

• Sleep Manipulation (Can cause people to become unconscious[10] by draining their mana)

medaka doesn't even have mana

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

because that's how supernatural luck works? it would make his 'godly' intuition not work and not tell him the correct answer unless he has shown resistance to supernatural luck

Supernatural Luck doesn't disrupt guranteed stuff like that, it just increases the probability of him choosing the wrong thing when given the 2 right choices so if there were 2 wincons of EE or sleep hax then he would go for EE first but since EE alone wouldnt work he would still go for sleep hax first

And either way, he will have an eternity to use his thought based attacks first

his profile says

• Sleep Manipulation (Can cause people to become unconscious[10] by draining their mana)

medaka doesn't even have mana

Verse Equalization, unless mana exists in her world and she SPECIFICALLY does not have it the hax would still work. For eg, Asta doesnt have any mana explicitly

Btw he can glare at people to knock them out as well.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Imagine if the "no mana no hax" arguement actually worked, most verses would be immune to bleach's reishi shenanigans

 

[Robo432343]

verse equalization only works if mana in re:zero and skill in medaka box are similar

the two are completely different..so sleep manip aint working here

 

[Hiiilt]

Verse Equalization, unless mana exists in her world and she SPECIFICALLY does not have it the hax would still work. For eg, Asta doesnt have any mana explicitly

Btw he can glare at people to knock them out as well.

op didn't equalize the verse

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

op didn't equalize the verse

SBA
Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

verse equalization only works if mana in re:zero and skill in medaka box are similar

the two are completely different..so sleep manip aint working here

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses

Mana is life force itself that can be used to attack others, Medaka has life force and thus would still be affected

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'll just say Van Astrea cause him using perception manipulation on himself pretty much makes Medaka probably gets incaped or killed before even a neuron makes that thought based hax happen.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

btw i dont see mind manipulation resistance on medaka's page either so thats a wincon too

 

[Hiiilt]

btw i dont see mind manipulation resistance on medaka's page either so thats a wincon too

Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Can counter Mind Control by brainwashing herself back to normal

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Why would a luck based passive affect an ability that tells him the "correct answer". Atleast have some relation to it, he isnt a normal character who would spontaneously change decisions

Because her luck causes the opponent to commit CIS, changing their decisions. Reinhard knowing which move to use is irrelevant if his thought pattern is changed by her luck. It's a "Hmm, my instict is telling me to use this but I think I'll hold back a bit for [insert whatever reason here] before getting serious" situation

 

[Hiiilt]

Medaka has Damage Transferal and Invulnerability (Can push away any and all physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual damage she would sustain to someone or something else in her vicinity) shouldn't that be enough to counter reinhard sleep manip?

Also being close to medaka will open all of reinhard physical and mental wounds at once

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Because her luck causes the opponent to commit CIS, changing their decisions. Reinhard knowing which move to use is irrelevant if his thought pattern is changed by her luck. It's a "Hmm, my instict is telling me to use this but I think I'll hold back a bit for [insert whatever reason here] before getting serious" situation

yeah, Reinhard never holds back under CIS or bloodlusted or heck any given situation
the only, ONLY situation where he holds back is when people will get hurt because of him, which is already covered by SBA and bloodlusted.

Medaka has Damage Transferal and Invulnerability (Can push away any and all physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual damage she would sustain to someone or something else in her vicinity) shouldn't that be enough to counter reinhard sleep manip?

Also being close to medaka will open all of reinhard physical and mental wounds at once

1. she has like never used this in canon and it only exists as a kind of offhand statement that she has gained all of those abilities
2. Reinhard sleep haxes first, plus thats not a "damage" at all
3. Reinhard has layered supernatural willpower or however you wanna put it but basically he wouldn't be phased by his wounds. mf killed his grandmother a second time when she was revived with no remorse

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Can counter Mind Control by brainwashing herself back to normal

Firstly the link to the reason isnt posted on her profile so that should be fixed, anywyas Reinhards mind manipulation works on Mind and Soul so her resistance is not enough

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Snip

He’s going to get new blessings even if the concept of blessings never exist to begin with because All Fiction works via causality (and works on a conceptual level too)? Tf are you talking about?

Also “draining mana” sounds like it would take more time anyway (at least looking at the scan on Reinhard’s profile) so All Fiction faster gg + Scar Dead reopens all of his old wounds.

Also I heavily doubt the Immortality is even gonna help.

1. she has like never used this in canon and it only exists as a kind of offhand statement that she has gained all of those abilities

This cope is crazy, she literally used it against Iihiko, we just don’t see the effects because Iihiko’s hax just says “nuh uh” AND THEY ARE BLOODLUSTED

EDIT:

2. Reinhard sleep haxes first, plus thats not a "damage" at all

Minus abilities are usually passive actually, and Medaka is going to make that power passive because she has ways of actually doing that faster then his mana draining. Like an instant on or off switch or something.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He’s going to get new blessings even if the concept of blessings never exist to begin with because All Fiction works via causality (and works on a conceptual level too)? Tf are you talking about?

Even Reid can't cut his blessings and he has cm type 2 as well

Also “draining mana” sounds like it would take more time anyway (at least looking at the scan on Reinhard’s profile) so All Fiction faster gg + Scar Dead reopens all of his old wounds.

are you ignoring the fact that its instantaneous on purpose or what? there has been no instance of him taking any time to drain anybody's mana, heck he can do it instantaneously. You also ignored the perception amp

Also I heavily doubt the Immortality is even gonna help.

your doubting doesn't really do much

This cope is crazy, she literally used it against Iihiko, we just don’t see the effects because Iihiko’s hax just says “nuh uh” AND THEY ARE BLOODLUSTED

great, still never seen her use it outside of that + she would be too slow

EDIT:

Minus abilities are usually passive actually, and Medaka is going to make that power passive because she has ways of actually doing that faster then his mana draining. Like an instant on or off switch or something.

the thought of "switching her passives on" would be slower than Reinhard doing his thought based haxes

also would like to add before you take this into a derailed tangent that she doesn't keep her passives on normally which is the state she would start in

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Even Reid can't cut his blessings and he has cm type 2 as well

Okay cool, not like it matters much since All Fiction just makes Reinhard not exist to begin with, kinda why I said I doubt Immortality would help him too

are you ignoring the fact that its instantaneous on purpose or what? there has been no instance of him taking any time to drain anybody's mana, heck he can do it instantaneously. You also ignored the perception amp

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm going off what's on the profiles and off my own knowledge of Medaka Box? This does not sound like an instant incap option to me, and it wouldn't stop any of Medaka's thought based things. Also tf is the perception amp even going to do? They don't have prep time so he's not going to do it before the fight unless it's passive or something.

great, still never seen her use it outside of that + she would be too slow

damn, it's almost like they are bloodlusted or something.

the thought of "switching her passives on" would be slower than Reinhard doing his thought based haxes

also would like to add before you take this into a derailed tangent that she doesn't keep her passives on normally which is the state she would start in

Literally disproves nothing, I never said she starts in the fight she has passives on, but it might as well be since the moment she turns those passives on, she is not turning them off.

If I haven't made very clear already, Medaka stomps + Supernatural Luck screws Reinhard over since it's borderline PIS