Reimu Hakurei downgrade #1

[ImmortalDread]

Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Was unaffected by the true Moon, which can drive humans insane and kill them if they look at it)

It has no scans, if any supporters would appreciate sharing them, I would like to revise them, otherwise it should be removed.

Will also affect other characters who got the same reasons such as @Marisa Kirisama.

Resistance to Probability Manipulation (Managed to defeat Shion, whose misfortune aura is strong enough to cause her opponents to instantly lose)

Too vague, also the second scans mentions nothing for instant probability manipulation, also defeating someone who has passive probability manipulation does not grant an automatic resistance.
The context is simply that Shion states that her actions will result in all individuals involved, including Joon and the shrine maiden, experiencing unhappiness and becoming losers which is nowhere related to probability manipulation.

 

[PrinceofPein]

MGK vs Touhou

 

[ImmortalDread]

I will leave CM type 1 stuff to Jedi since he has a sandbox if I am not wrong. Anyway, the thread has nothing to do with the current drama at all.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

lol

lmao, even

lmfao, if i may be so bold

These have very easy to gather and clear cut scans, so give me just a moment.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I will leave CM type 1 stuff to Jedi since he has a sandbox if I am not wrong. Anyway, the thread has nothing to do with the current drama at all.

Don't worry, I've got that covered too.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It has no scans, if any supporters would appreciate sharing them, I would like to revise them, otherwise it should be removed.

Will also affect other characters who got the same reasons such as @Marisa Kirisama.

Here's Reimu looking at the moon, which is described as the true moon by Kaguya. And here's a bunch of statements on how it drives people insane. If you need scans of other characters resisting it, then feel free to ask.

Too vague, also the second scans mentions nothing for instant probability manipulation, also defeating someone who has passive probability manipulation does not grant an automatic resistance.
The context is simply that Shion states that her actions will result in all individuals involved, including Joon and the shrine maiden, experiencing unhappiness and becoming losers which is nowhere related to probability manipulation.

Shion's ability is to give those around her misfortune, where fortune/misfortune is quite literally described as a power that manipulates probability (really though, just read this whole chapter, it recaps the fortune/probability stuff in great detail). Reimu resists it since it was intended to make her lose instantly, but she won anyways.

This whole thread could've been avoided if you just... asked me for scans or dug through some old threads. Like, I'm not some evil Touhou wanker who'll refuse to help you y'know, you can always just ask "hey are there scans for this?". I can easily give more scans for the claims I've made, but I opted to stick with the most straightforward and explicit.

 

[KingNanaya]

it's a wrap

 

[ImmortalDread]

Here's Reimu looking at the moon, which is described as the true moon by Kaguya. And here's a bunch of statements on how it drives people insane. If you need scans of other characters resisting it, then feel free to ask.

The scans seem more non-literal, specially that the statement of moon described as fearful and the metaphorical statement of her being as usual insane sounds more un-serious expression.

Shion's ability is to give those around her misfortune, where fortune/misfortune is quite literally described as a power that manipulates probability (really though, just read this whole chapter, it recaps the fortune/probability stuff in great detail). Reimu resists it since it was intended to make her lose instantly, but she won anyways.

My issue is with the resistance. The whole scan is already in OP and I still addressed it, that nothing really here showcase any resistance.

 

[BoastJr]

I agree.... Goku slams Maou Gakuin and Touhou at the same time

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The scans seem more non-literal, specially that the statement of moon described as fearful and the metaphorical statement of her being as usual insane sounds more un-serious expression.

Youmu's human half quite literally gets driven insane and needs to be treated using magic drugs after looking at it. Also, it is once again stated that the true moon has lethal effects on humans in BAiJR. We have these statements from multiple reliable sources (including the omniscient narration) and a clear demonstration of the actual effects working as described, what more do you want?

My issue is with the resistance. The whole scan is already in OP and I still addressed it, that nothing really here showcase any resistance.

Literally the entire plot of AoCF is how Shion and Joon can't lose because Shion possesses the enemy and makes them so unlucky that they literally cannot win (exhibit A). This happens in every single route. Again, this is easily solved if you just ask for more context or look for it yourself, but for some godforsaken reason you choose not to.

 

[Arceus0x]

don't really know about touhou but like, totally disagree with the madness downgrade cause it seems very much literal to me i mean it literally makes humans go insane it's basic ass madness hax

 

[PrinceofPein]

Touhou(fuji) to MGK

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I didn't type those twenty thousand words of research for nothing.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I disagree with the madness stuff in the OP, as there are proofs of madness manip, at the same time the scans need to be added

For the probability stuff, if you fight someone who has probability manip and there is no statement of you directly resisting it, it should be a "possibly" resistance to that

 

[Shmooply]

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

For the probability stuff, if you fight someone who has probability manip and there is no statement of you directly resisting it, it should be a "possibly" resistance to that

I mean, it's a scenario where we know the intended effect of the probability manipulation (Reimu losing) objectively didn't happen, so a full resistance makes sense. This was also when Shion's aura was at its max strength, so Reimu needing to resist it in full is even more apparent.

There's also the context that high enough levels of fortune can grant resistance to misfortune, and Reimu has fortune in spades, so that should also solidify a resistance of some kind. I won't push these points further though, just gonna wait for staff input.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Youmu's human half quite literally gets driven insane and needs to be treated using magic drugs after looking at it. Also, it is once again stated that the true moon has lethal effects on humans in BAiJR.

The second statement has no correspondence to madness manipulation (if it exists), the part of “deadly to humans" is the reason it remains hidden.
But the first statement seems to give some context, I will concede.

 

[ImmortalDread]

For the probability stuff, if you fight someone who has probability manip and there is no statement of you directly resisting it, it should be a "possibly" resistance to that

Ya, I don't understand from where the resistance is coming from. Specially the second scan does not seem to be any literal.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Disagree FRA, Fuji be sweeping like always.

 

[ImmortalDread]

For madness manipulation resistance, I will add the first statement as a scan, since it is the only relevant.

 

[Shmooply]

First they came for the Conceptual Manipulation, and I did not speak out, because I was asleep. Then they came for Fuji, and I did not speak out, for I did not want to get myself involved in the war. Then they came to shove my grill onto the dirt, and there was no one left to speak for me. My hand has been forced, I will join the war between Touhou and Maou Gakuin.

I disagree based on Fuji's points.

 

[BoastJr]

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Ya, I don't understand from where the resistance is coming from. Specially the second scan does not seem to be any literal.

Do you have an actual argument besides "oh it's non-literal"? Marisa being said to have her fortune drop to the minimum and the statement of her losing any chance of winning are pretty clear cut. Also, here's even more statements about how Shion's abilities directly impact one's luck/fortune. Being able to alter someone's luck like that is generally probability manipulation, even if you don't buy the other stuff.

And if you somehow, somehow, still think this is all flowery, just read her official profile.

For madness manipulation resistance, I will add the first statement as a scan, since it is the only relevant.

Add the scan where? To the pages?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Any further derailing will be reported in RvR. I conceded on maddness one since the scan has been dropped. I am still arguing for probability manipulation as there is no solid feat for it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Do you have an actual argument besides "oh it's non-literal"? Marisa being said to have her fortune drop to the minimum and the statement of her losing any chance of winning are pretty clear cut. Also, here's even more statements about how Shion's abilities directly impact one's luck/fortune. Being able to alter someone's luck like that is generally probability manipulation, even if you don't buy the other stuff.

And if you somehow, somehow, still think this is all flowery, just read her official profile.


Add the scan where? To the pages?

Dunno sounds pretty non literal flowery hyperbole unreliable language.

Anyways this downgrade seems like it has no basis with the current rebuttals so disagree FRA.

 

[BoastJr]

fine , I disagree based on the points provided by fujiwara as its clear cut

 

[ImmortalDread]

Do you have an actual argument besides "oh it's non-literal"?

Not my issue if the scans sound like one.

Marisa being said to have her fortune drop to the minimum and the statement of her losing any chance of winning are pretty clear cut. Also, here's even more statements about how Shion's abilities directly impact one's luck/fortune. Being able to alter someone's luck like that is generally probability manipulation, even if you don't buy the other stuff.

Before I continue, may I see the references or sources of those?

And if you somehow, somehow, still think this is all flowery, just read her official profile.

This sounds more like supernatural luck.

Add the scan where? To the pages?

What else?

 

[Arceus0x]

 

[Epiccheev]

Disagree FRA
Inb4 the revenge downgrades motivate Fujiwara to finally drop the prophesied bible sized Touhou immortality upgrade.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I just want the scans to not be cropped screens from thr 2hou wiki smh...

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Do you have an actual argument besides "oh it's non-literal"? Marisa being said to have her fortune drop to the minimum and the statement of her losing any chance of winning are pretty clear cut. Also, here's even more statements about how Shion's abilities directly impact one's luck/fortune. Being able to alter someone's luck like that is generally probability manipulation, even if you don't buy the other stuff.

And if you somehow, somehow, still think this is all flowery, just read her official profile.


Add the scan where? To the pages?

Can’t wait for my wife to suddenly out of nowhere gain a resistance to having her fortune dropped ever again because she’ll just gain resistances like that out the ass frequently.

 

[Arceus0x]

 

[Epiccheev]

Can’t wait for my wife to suddenly out of nowhere gain a resistance to having her fortune dropped ever again because she’ll just gain resistances like that out the ass frequently.

Aren't you the guy who did the famous tweet?

 

[Deidalius]

Damn, I was smelling a debunk attempt correctly. I might comment here after I finish some chores.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Aren't you the guy who did the famous tweet?

Which one there’s quite a few I have claim to hah. Is it the Nintendo one?

this just in: the largely Japanese Only franchise would not be that big of the biggest source of translations for the verse wasn’t available.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Not my issue if the scans sound like one.

That is your issue, because it's the explicit explanation of how Shion's abilities work and why they're considered unbeatable.

Before I continue, may I see the references or sources of those?

Miko and Byakuren's ending, Antinomy of Common Flowers & Yukari and Reimu's ending, Antinomy of Common Flowers.

This sounds more like supernatural luck.

Converting good luck into bad luck
Supernatural luck

yeah alright sure

What else?

I'd prefer to be the one to do it, and even then, it isn't strictly necessary. I'm also not 100% sure on what scan you're referring to, since there are a lot.

 

[Arceus0x]

this just in: the largely Japanese Only franchise would not be that big of the biggest source of translations for the verse wasn’t available.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

MGK vs Touhou

 

[BoastJr]

Dread : no derailing otherwise you will be reported

Meanwhile everyone : hotel trivago

 

[ImmortalDread]

That is your issue, because it's the explicit explanation of how Shion's abilities work and why they're considered unbeatable.

This makes no sense. The scan is not even literal as this is simply a sense of frustration and discontent. Also, what exactly is here “explicit”?
The person simply suggests a desire to bring suffering to everyone, way to demonstrate the extent of their dissatisfaction.

So in fact, there is no “explicit” as you are mentioning here.

I'd prefer to be the one to do it, and even then, it isn't strictly necessary. I'm also not 100% sure on what scan you're referring to, since there are a lot.

Sorry but no. After the thread's conclusion, I will edit the profile as it is one of the duties of OP. Also, I am referring to this scan.