Regarding rinnegan sasuke and six paths sage mode naruto

[Anonymousse21]

I don't really want to start an argument so sorry if this has been dealt with already. I was just wondering why these 2 versions of the characters are listed as small planet level. I mean obviously i know why because i can read the profiles but the reasonings don't really make any sense to me. The first one is that its scaling from madara who is that level because the sage said he was approaching his level of power. But approaching doesn't mean the same level of power. really in cases like that you should put them one level below the character at the most. So moon level. But even ignoring that completely the main point is the only forms who should be able to be put on that level for naruto and sasuke are sasuke with the tailed beasts and naruto with all the natural energy in the planet. which are their strongest forms by a significant margin. Sasuke in this form was, just like madara compared to the sage. But the naruto and sasuke that fought kaguya shouldn't be that level.

The other reason i think is that they damaged madara and kaguya who are listed as small planet level AP, but also durability. Im not sure thats correct. These guys gets pierced by shuriken and kaguya got her horn broken by sakura among many other examples. I know that all that can be dismissed as PIS but they definitely aren't evidence for their durability being at that level. Attack doesn't necessarily equal durability. On madara's profile hes listed at small planet level durability because he survived naruto's lava shuriken but that lava shuriken is only put at that level because its 1/9 of an attack which hurt kaguya, who is also listed as small planet level durability without too much base. And im pretty sure if you divide the yield of hagoromo's chibaku tensei by 9 you get moon level anyway. and then rinnegan sasuke is planetary for hurting that madara. Its just a long line of really ambiguous scaling.

To sum it up i don't really have a huge problem with sasuke and naruto being small planet level (although im not confident in the validity of that in the first place) but i don't think they should be that level in six paths sage mode and regular rinnegan. Only in the forms they faced each other with. Naruto can conceivably get that level of strength at any time, although it takes a lot of prep but sasuke can't just get access to the bijuu. I doubt human sized sage mode naruto is as powerful as the giant 3 headed kurama avatar. Im not going to argue if people don't want it to be changed though. I just wanted to know what the reason behind this is.

 

[NovaReaper]

You do make a valid point

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Naruto and Sasuke did a feat that was also done by the sage and his brother. That alone makes them easily small planet. And this was before any forementiined upgrades.

They're fine where they are.

 

[Anonymousse21]

naruto and sasuke's one was moon level. the moon was formed far lower than the 384000km that we assume the moon in the real narutoverse is at. you can see this on panel. and that was their combined power. Not to mention it wasn't really even their own ability. They were given it by the sage but unlike all the other power they gained they lost it after one use. It was probably hagoromo doing most of the work.

And even if it were small planet, halve it and you get moon level.

 

[KyofuSama93]

They didn't lose any power.

 

[Lejon123!]

sasuke is even stronger then if we comprare him to 4 great ninja war sasuke he is stronger now

 

[KyofuSama93]

If we compare him to MSE Sasuke, then yeah.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

naruto and sasuke's one was moon level. the moon was formed far lower than the 384000km that we assume the moon in the real narutoverse is at. you can see this on panel. and that was their combined power. Not to mention it wasn't really even their own ability. They were given it by the sage but unlike all the other power they gained they lost it after one use. It was probably hagoromo doing most of the work.
And even if it were small planet, halve it and you get moon level.

The feat was already calced. Half it and you get 500 exatons . Still small planet. And the feat was portrayed to parallel Hagoromo's and Hamura's.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Also, Hagoromo was powerless for the majority of the battle. When he got his powers back he then moved to "get them back". He didn't do "all the work".

 

[Anonymousse21]

I want to see a link to this calc then. because as far as i know. the only one calced was hagoromo's. because i did a rough calc and got moon level.

Fact remains that its not their powers. If it was they would be able to do it more than once. Hagoromo literally gave them a one time use thing from him. How do know he wasn't powerless in the first place because he gave that power to naruto and sasuke?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Oh sorry. I meant Hagoromo's was calced and Naruto's and Sasuke's feat was portrayed as parallel to it.

 

[Anonymousse21]

well thats completely the reverse to how it should be. naruto and sasuke's is the one that happened on panel. If anything that one should be calced and hagoromo's should be assumed to be parallel.

Im actually fine with assuming that hagoromo's wasn't quite parallel to the one we saw used on kaguya and still accept it as planet level. But i definitely don't think we should just say they're both equivalent when you can calc one of them.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I think the problem with Naruto's and Sasuke's feat is that the jutsu wasn't completely finished based on Kakashi's statement of "it's getting bigger, like our moon." Which is why no one's done a calc on it and just assume it's the same value of Hagoromo's. However, you can probably ask for a calc to be done on it via the calc request thread, ask a friend to do it, or even do it yourself if you know how to if it concerns you.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Apparently Might Gai should also be small planet level since he almost killed Madara and absorbing the tree only made Madara immortal it didn't powerscale his Ap/Dc.

Naruto powerscaling is all over the place, with the new upgraded. I wouldn't mind lightspeed Naruto tho. :v

 

[Anonymousse21]

Im pretty sure we got to see it when it was completed as in the full moon. rocks definitely stopped getting attracted to it. the only question then is if it was rising or not. which is sort of an assumption. And if it is rising, how fast. Its safer to just take it as it is. I feel like thats what would normally be done in such a situation.

I could probably do a calc on it, Not as good as most others but maybe acceptable but i kinda cba. If someone wants to pick it up they can and if this just gets ignored its not exactly the end of my world if everything just gets left as it is. I just think that naruto and sasuke are not small planet level in the forms they faced kaguya against or as an adult. only in their strongest forms.

 

[Lejon123!]

sasue does still have his six path powers and naruto the only thing naruto and sasuke have now is yin and yang seal

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Naruto and Sasuke each have half of Hagoromo's power which is still Small Planet level.

 

[Anonymousse21]

thats not how it works

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Naruto and Sasuke being small planet level is justified

statements + feats = upgrade

 

[Anonymousse21]

Their small planet level feat is moon level and there is no statement that puts them on the sage's level in the forms that i am talking about. There is no justification for them being that level in those forms.

If we're being real picky the sage doesn't even have a planet level feat. Thats just some double standards that other series wouldn't get. We never even saw the sage do the feat so we have no idea how long it took or what exactly happened. Once again naruto and sasuke did exactly the same technique he used and it didn;t come close to what we have it at now.

However as i said many times this thread i don't want to cause a huge multi topic argument so for now im fine with hagoromo being planet level and im even ok with leaving naruto and sasuke at planet level in the forms they faced each other against but sharinnegan sasuke and six paths sage mode that fought kaguya are nowhere near that level.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Sasuke only got Yin and Naruto got Yang relase from Hagoromo. They got half of his power and he is planet level with both Yin and Yang. Having them at that level is just to power scale Madara, Kaguya, Momishiki and Toneri.

I think is fine at that level but i don't completly agree with it.

 

[Lejon123!]

i think it is fine

 

[Non-Bias]

I don't agree with it personally. It defeats the purpose of them gaining more power in my opinion.

 

[Muu0934]

I think its weird because if that were the case then Naruto/Sasuke power would've dipped immediately after loosing the seals: which is shown afterwards to not be the case.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Can you please stop trolling the community?

Dontalks calculation puts Hagoromo at 1.08 zettatons of tnt, or 1080 exatons of tnt. Small Planet Level starts at 430 exatons of tnt.

Madara would need to be about 60% weaker than Hagoromo to not be Small Planet Level. Hagoromo said Madara was close in power to him, close means close, not 60% weaker.

As for Naruto and Sasuke, from my japanese raw

"Òü¥ÒéïÒüºÕà¡ÚüôÒü« ÒüÿÒüÿ Òüäõ©ªÒüá "

"It's like the power of Hagoromo... no it is it's equal"

 

[Anonymousse21]

Can someone show me the feat then? not the calc. The feat. Where hagoromo creates the moon. Because i don't remember seeing it. Only someone talking about how it happened. We know absolutely nothing about how the feat was performed yet it was calced assuming it happened in a short timeframe and to the exact same distance as our moon. We did, however get to see the technique used when naruto and sasuke did it.

http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/690/012.png

Guess what? thats not 384000km away. Its around 4000-4500km away by rough pixel scaling. If its towards the upper end of that its still a small planet level feat. Now you can say that its rising. But thats an assumption. There were still small bits of rock being attracted to it at that point but theres little evidence it was getting any higher. But lets just assume it was rising for a second. And lets also assume it rose all the way to the height of our own moon. You know that if the timeframe for a feat is way too long (like hours) then it can't be used as AP right? well we have no idea of the timeframe that this had. It seemed pretty quick when the moon was initially being formed at that height but if it was rising after that point it definitely wasn't moving very fast. Theres no way of knowing any of this. Its just a million assumptions.

And as for your last point i find it hilarious that you're accusing me of trolling yet you don't even bother to read any of my messages before instantly getting defensive. Why don't i repeat for you. This thread is about rinnegan sasuke and six paths sage mode naruto, not sasuke with all the bijuu and naruto with all the natural energy on the planet. The scan you posted was in reference to sasuke as he absorbed all the tailed beasts into his susanoo. You can now scroll up and read where i said im even ok with having naruto and sasuke at planet level in the forms they faced each other against.

So let me sum it up for you one more time since you probably weren't bothered to read this message just like you ignored most of what i said in my other messages. I don't agree with hagoromo being planet level for a feat which we never saw him do and know nothing about the parameters of and then scaling naruto and sasuke from it. BUT, I have conceded on arguing about that a while ago and will not do so anymore. Im ok with having him at small planet level. And im fine with having naruto and sasuke in their strongest forms being at that level because it was stated that they were pretty much as strong as he was. I already said this in my last messages. You can check. I however am not ok with rinnegan sasuke and normal sage of 6 paths naruto being in the same tier as their strongest forms because that doesn't make sense.

 

[Muu0934]

^ That's a rather large post was there any way to condense it? Hagoromo being Moon +, IIRC, comes from chp 670 where he talks with Naruto about sealing Kaguya away with his brother. I believe that this point is reverberated again in "The Last" though I'll find a video for that later.

The tech you'r referring to in Chp 690 is the true Chibaku Tensei. At the absolute worst it becomes a shared feat for Hagoromo and Hamura: though as both seals went back to Hagoromo he's now the sole owner of the tech.

I do agree with you're last part that Naruto and Sasuke shouldn't be scale to their VoTE 2 forms at they were at their apex and it required very specific circumstances to get to that point.

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

I'll never agree witth Naruto's stats due to the sheer amount of times the Lunar creation story was rewritten, the fact the moon was Hollow etc. To each there own. I always debate them as being Large Continent to Moon+ Level. Depending on their form.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Someone should highlight this thread.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I'll never agree witth Naruto's stats due to the sheer amount of times the Lunar creation story was rewritten, the fact the moon was Hollow etc. To each there own. I always debate them as being Large Continent to Moon+ Level. Depending on their form.

The Naruto moon isn't completely hollow. Only a very small portion in the middle is hollow, which is where the Otsutsuki built their home.

As for the lunar creation story being rewritten, this isn't an inconsitency. Black Zetsu openly admitted his duty was to screw and write ninja history to how he saw fit, so everything we once knew was already planned. Hagoromo's confirmation of how the moon was created is the best statement to take because he didn't intend on lying.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Can someone show me the feat then? not the calc. The feat. Where hagoromo creates the moon. Because i don't remember seeing it. Only someone talking about how it happened. We know absolutely nothing about how the feat was performed yet it was calced assuming it happened in a short timeframe and to the exact same distance as our moon. We did, however get to see the technique used when naruto and sasuke did it.
http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/690/012.png

Guess what? thats not 384000km away. Its around 4000-4500km away by rough pixel scaling. If its towards the upper end of that its still a small planet level feat. Now you can say that its rising. But thats an assumption. There were still small bits of rock being attracted to it at that point but theres little evidence it was getting any higher. But lets just assume it was rising for a second. And lets also assume it rose all the way to the height of our own moon. You know that if the timeframe for a feat is way too long (like hours) then it can't be used as AP right? well we have no idea of the timeframe that this had. It seemed pretty quick when the moon was initially being formed at that height but if it was rising after that point it definitely wasn't moving very fast. Theres no way of knowing any of this. Its just a million assumptions.

And as for your last point i find it hilarious that you're accusing me of trolling yet you don't even bother to read any of my messages before instantly getting defensive. Why don't i repeat for you. This thread is about rinnegan sasuke and six paths sage mode naruto, not sasuke with all the bijuu and naruto with all the natural energy on the planet. The scan you posted was in reference to sasuke as he absorbed all the tailed beasts into his susanoo. You can now scroll up and read where i said im even ok with having naruto and sasuke at planet level in the forms they faced each other against.

So let me sum it up for you one more time since you probably weren't bothered to read this message just like you ignored most of what i said in my other messages. I don't agree with hagoromo being planet level for a feat which we never saw him do and know nothing about the parameters of and then scaling naruto and sasuke from it. BUT, I have conceded on arguing about that a while ago and will not do so anymore. Im ok with having him at small planet level. And im fine with having naruto and sasuke in their strongest forms being at that level because it was stated that they were pretty much as strong as he was. I already said this in my last messages. You can check. I however am not ok with rinnegan sasuke and normal sage of 6 paths naruto being in the same tier as their strongest forms because that doesn't make sense.

So your assumption is that it took a long time for the moon to rise passed the atmosphere?

Now this isn't anime or manga, its video-game. Since we dont have the anime animated yet, I'm just going to use this as a visualization of how fast chibaku tensei's rise and the control the user has over them.

https://youtu.be/grk_Q9o7LVo?t=2m47s

They're shown to rise up fairly quickly on their own..but on users command?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grk_Q9o7LVo

It crossed from the frost country to the final valley just seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grk_Q9o7LVo

In manga: http://www.mangahawk.com/read2/naruto/696/6

the distances between the frost country and the final valley is 3,520km

The chibaku tensei's take as long as they want to take, or they're forced to where ever they're placed.

 

[Comic_rider]

sasuke+naruto=non juubi hagoromo

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

This thread is rather outdated now.