Randall Flagg vs The Hunter

[Kaltias]

I have like no idea if this is actually fair. Speed is blah blah blah.

Start 200 metres apart or so because the Hunter's range is around that level.

The Hunter (Enter the Gungeon):

Randall Flagg: 1

Inconclusive:

 

[Schnee_One]

Randall stands there

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The hunter got downgraded? Wonder if the hunter vs gii would be fair? Now that i think about it gii hasn't tussled with flagg yet either.

 

[Kaltias]

Randall stands there

And... reads her mind? He isn't Nihilus.

@CP

I don't think that the Hunter can punch a possibility

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Oh right possibility shenanigans, now that i think about it who do we currently have has the strongest 8-C anyway? Gii should be pretty far in the tier in terms of strongest.

 

[Wokistan]

Speed blah blah blah doesn't say equal so hunter speedblitz ovo

For a legit answer, Randall doesn't normally have the full black 13 in vs matches, does he?

 

[Kaltias]

@CP

Magnus from Supernatural

@Woki

I think that Black Thirteen is a "he doesn't have it unless OP specifies it" kind of equipment.

 

[Schnee_One]

And... reads her mind? He isn't Nihilus.

@CP

I don't think that the Hunter can punch a possibility

He makes people go insane by speaking, as well as Death Manipulation

 

[Kaltias]

And does he leave them like that afterwards?

Because if she dies, the battle is reset automatically

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Woki
I think that Black Thirteen is a "he doesn't have it unless OP specifies it" kind of equipment.

Yeah, this.

One could make a case for Maerlyn's Grapefruit being something he owns and is able to bring into a normal match (since he's seen using it more than anyone else in the series), but Black Thirteen very much isn't his item to regularly use as he pleases, and he's only ever seen with it about 2-3 times.

Giving him that would be stupid anyway; on top of its passive hax, it's sentient, and has pretty blatant evidence of being a Tier 1 artifact.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Btw, when did the Hunter get downed to 8-C again? Did something happen with her Tier 7 calc, or..?

 

[Kaltias]

The calc is legit.

It's more that it's literally a single tier 7 feat in the entire verse, and that stuff that's supposed to be more powerful doesn't even reach High 8-C (Except maybe the Lich, but the Lich is walking vagueness)

8-C has 3-4 feats on this level + a bunch of supporting 9-A evidence.

There is a tier 5 feat tho, so there is that ovo

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

RIP

Anywho, I may have missed it, but I don't see any mind or telepathy resistance on her page. Flagg is one of the psychics in DT who reads minds passively, and he can also read them from afar using his eye. It's also shown in Wizard and Glass that he can read people's memories as easily as their current thoughts. So it seems like he has that advantage right out of the gate.

Is the Hunter's time reset upon death something that she knows about? Or is she basically Roland oblivious to it?

Other thing I just noticed:

He makes people go insane by speaking, as well as Death Manipulation

That's actually not one of the things he did by speaking. He did it by sending Roland a vision with his telepathy.

Said vision was of the birth of the universe, then Roland growing past the limits of said universe until he was outside of it. Which then led to Roland perceiving the entirety of said universe trapped within a single atom of a blade of grass, while simultaneously perceiving the entirety of said blade of grass on a subatomic level, while he was still so small in comparison to said blade that he felt "tiny" and "infinitesimal". (I bet your head's starting to hurt just from reading that, isn't it?) Roland just barely managed to hold onto his sanity, but Flagg stated afterwards that anyone else "would have come back drooling".

He ca kill people just by speaking, however.

 

[Kaltias]

She only has emphatic resistance for mind stuf.

She does know about it (Given that she retains memory of the previous time loops). She probably doesn't know the mechanics, though.

Does Flagg looking into memories take time (worth pointing out that it's passively slowed to a crawl until the Hunter moves, which she doesn't need to do to get near thanks to teleportation)?

Granted she still need to move to actually attack him

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

A bit of time, but not very long. Within some moments of Eldred Jonas walking into his midst, he'd gotten far enough into the guy's head to accurately shapeshift into his (Eldred's) old, long-dead teacher and then change right back to himself, just to spook the guy. He hadn't met Jonas prior to that moment, either.

He also did the same thing when he met Roy Depape, turning into the latter's father mid-conversation despite having had no other way of actually knowing what Roy's father looked like except for his mind reading. Timeframe's murky on that one, though. We only know about it from Roy's own recollection of the events.

That said, if she teleports right out of the gate, he'll most likely know where she is thanks to his ESP with his third eye. Plus he himself can teleport much further away if he really needs to.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

• pops in hoping people are using the Hunter I recently added in a semi-thematic battle*

>Wrong hunter

• pops back out*

 

[Jinsye]

As a note, if the Hunter has a fair fight against Randall, here's who is next

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

*pops in hoping people are using the Hunter I recently added in a semi-thematic battle*
>Wrong hunter

• pops back out*

Funnily, I initially came into this thinking he was up against a different Hunter as well.
(P.S.: Good thing it wasn't, because I tried that already.)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

As a note, if the Hunter has a fair fight against Randall, here's who is next

Tfw A>B>C logic...

Literally the only reason he wound up winning that was because the two options most fatal to Hatchworth were exactly the kind of thing he would open up with while IC if he were faced with a robot. Which is why I still don't agree with the match being considered a stomp, but that's another argument for another time.

Anyway, just because she has a fair fight with Flagg doesn't mean a fight with Hatch will be the same.

 

[Jinsye]

Ik but maybe she may stomp like Flagg idk haven't read her profile in-depth besides I know she has a wall of text

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Anyway, if she can't resist mindhax or mind reading, then it's likely that Flagg takes this in the end.

The thing about time slowing whenever she's standing still is probably the most threatening thing she has, as is the time-reset upon death. But there are many ways he could simply incapacitate her without killing her, and if he gets the chance to read her mind (which he most likely will) then he'll know to use something that incaps.

Also, it seems like the overwhelming majority of the EtG Hunter's attacks come from weapons, which isn't good when Flagg can just do this.


(Unless her weapons have the same transmutation resistance that she does?)

 

[Kaltias]

Her guns should be transmutation resistant as well yes.

I mean when it works on a Gundead with a shotgun it turns it into a chicken, not a chicken with a shotgun, so normally it affects them, but it doesn't in the Hunter's case.

Also worth pointing out that she passively radiates 8-C+ damage in a radius of 5 metres or so.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Flagg most likely wouldn't even attempt to get that close to her. Melee abilities aside, he's not a physical fighter by nature, and actually seems rather content with killing people off from a safe distance if he can. (See: Him staying out of melee range during his entire final fight with Roland in the film, his killing of The Kid in The Stand by telepathically possessing a pack of wolves and running them after him, the implication of him having sent a tornado after Tom and Nick while miles away, him trying to mind-control a guy into shooting Roland while the two of them were in completely different universes, so on)

I should myself point out that Flagg can send projections of himself some distance away if need be. They're little more than illusions, but they serve the purpose of letting him pull off some of his special abilities without actually being there, while also providing a target that can't actually be hit.

And even Roland, with his ridiculous enhanced senses, failed to tell one of these projections apart from the real thing until well after he had shot at it with his guns.

 

[Kaltias]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I suppose I'll go ahead and vote Flagg while I'm still here.

Mindhax ends the fight pretty hard, and he has ways of keeping himself safe long enough to use it. His projections can be used to give the Hunter a false target while he's busy scanning her brain and figuring out what will work, and if she does manage to shoot at him instead of the fake, he has a spell that passively causes projectiles (even ones with special properties) to miss him completely. Other illusions are also fair game.

Him killing her and triggering the time reset depends on whether or not he can find out about it beforehand. With his mind reading and memory reading on top of his defensive options, I think he can.

He could also just do what he did to Sheemie and shut down her mind/force her into a dreaming state with a mental attack. That won't kill her, so it's just as viable as anything else.

She ca kill him. Actually, she has a lot of abilities that can put him down. But the majority of them are at least somewhat avoidable, whereas Flagg's mindhax (in this scenario) isn't.

 

[Kaltias]

Bump. 8-A versions used now

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

The only real difference I'm seeing is that Flagg now has an AP advantage on top of the other things that were mentioned before, so I guess I'm still sticking with him.