Question on Darth Vader's ap

[JingleFloor]

How is Darth Vader's multi-continent, sub atomic force power enough to give him a victory against Naruto's moon level+ durability?

 

[Promestein]

It ignores durability and Vader is way faster. That's why.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, without mentioning that Naruto isn't invulnerable to lightsaber; I wasn't in there, but there some reasons why he could beat him

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yes, as Promestein said sub-atomic manipulation ignores durability. However, I think that battle thread should be redone. The majority of the arguments used PIS gag feats as a logia to prove that Naruto's interior durability was lesser than that of his exterior, completely ignoring the fact Naruto had tanked similar attacks when ten.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Isn't it usually accepted that Organs dura < Regular dura?

 

[JingleFloor]

In the Narutoverse a characters durability is all around based on chakra, + Does that mean Darth Vader can crush a slow universe-level opponent?

Also if his force ignores durability, what is Vader's attack potency for? Wouldn't it be unknown

 

[Antoniofer]

ˆnot sure, but iirc, Naruto characters (most of them) aren't bulletproof and can be killed by being stabbed, in a melee fight against a faster character can be dangerous

EDIT: In response to Saiko

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Only some aspect of the Force ignores dura, not all its application IIRC

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

@Antoniofer Most of them. Naruto tanked a chidori to the chest, which has incredible penetration power.

@Saikou not sure. I'd imagine it'd be a case by case basis but I thought the default opinion was that this wasn't the case.

I'd imagine considering even the Kyuubi was forced to regurgitate the demon brothers this may indeed be the case for Naruto characters.

But of course the Juubi contradicts this when it tanked its own Bijuudama that detonated within it.

So again, case by case basis.

That's not my point though. My point is the logia used was incredibly fallacious (as it was based on PIS).

 

[JingleFloor]

So would that mean the force could bypass like, barriers and armors but not cells? If thats the case (not saying its 100% not since you didnt say so) wouldn't that render his force hax pretty much useless since Naruto has higher durability?


+ @Antonifer Ninjas have been shown to have tanked water bullets for faster and powerful than irl bullets

Then in another feat Naruto w/ six paths sage mode tanked a chidori hit

 

[Antoniofer]

If they tanked "bullets" and were unharmed after being stabbed that would be durability, but if they were perforated by those attack and still standing, that would be stamina; not a Naruto fan, so I don't known how was the scene, so I'll leave that to the experts

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The chidori left no apparent injury on SO6P Naruto.

 

[Antoniofer]

oh in that case is durability, at least than the ninjas are more durable to chakra based attacks, that would be a generic durability. Its weird that since I saw high rated ninjas being stabbed by weapons before (like Zabuza)...

 

[Lina_Shields]

In response to Darth Vader's sub atomic matter manipulation, I always thought that DV's preferred method of combat was to utilize his lightsaber skills and his speed to duel his opponents?

The force abilities that he uses during combat (force push, scream, malestrom) don't actually ignore durability from what I've heard.

Also, DV's cruddy Class GJ striking strength means that he has no hope of hurting Naruto's Moon level durability either...

 

[Aparajita]

In response to Darth Vader's sub atomic matter manipulation, I always thought that DV's preferred method of combat was to utilize his lightsaber skills and his speed to duel his opponents?

Preferred. Maul's Preferred Method was also Lightsaber combat, but he was not against using the Force. Sidious' Preferred Method was also Sith Lightning, but he could also lightsaber duel with the best of the.

Although Vader does prefer to be up and close with enemies, he is not against using the Force.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

In response to Darth Vader's sub atomic matter manipulation, I always thought that DV's preferred method of combat was to utilize his lightsaber skills and his speed to duel his opponents?

Preferred. Maul's Preferred Method was also Lightsaber combat, but he was not against using the Force. Sidious' Preferred Method was also Sith Lightning, but he could also lightsaber duel with the best of the.
Although Vader does prefer to be up and close with enemies, he is not against using the Force.

See that brings up another point that always bothers me. People always seem to assume that a battle is going to go down with both characters performing the most optimal strategy that they possibly can, as fast as they can, as if they had perfect knowledge their opponents and already effectively had infinite mental prep time.

Realistically, you should be assuming that characters will use their most common strategies and tactics first and then after the battle seems to not be over quickly they would step back and start trying other things based on their observations.

If vaders most common and preferred way of fighting is to force push or engage in a lightsaber duel, thats what he will open up with, and then he might switch over to other tactics of that strategy doesn't seem to be working out for him. That's when you might start seeing other wierd force powers come into play. Same goes for whoever vader is fighting, they would go for their most common opening strategy as well which may work really well or really poorly against vaders opening depending on what it is. Opening up with hand to hand against vaders lightsaber probably wont end well for them, but if they are someone who fights in a different way they might get the upper hand early if their opening happens to work well against a lightsaber/force push type of strategy.

And yes, it is totally reasonable and even expected that one or both fighters might die without getting a chance to use their best or most situationally effective strategy simply because they might not think of it or realize it would work before it's too late.

 

[Aparajita]

Wall of Text

I agree, 100%. However, Vader is so many times faster than Kaguya, that he could slash her with his saber, realize it's doing nothing, go have Tea with Sidious, then get told "SOMETHING SOMETHING DARK SIDE now return and turn her to a sponge" and return before she had time to register the battle. He's 9 categories above her. His speed? 299,792,458,000 m/s and hers is 2,722,320 m/s. He's 110,123x faster than her.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

I agree, 100%. However, Vader is so many times faster than Kaguya, that he could slash her with his saber, realize it's doing nothing, go have Tea with Sidious, then get told "SOMETHING SOMETHING DARK SIDE now return and turn her to a sponge" and return before she had time to register the battle. He's 9 categories above her. His speed? 299,792,458,000 m/s and hers is 2,722,320 m/s. He's 110,123x faster than her.

This isn't the kaguya thread... but this is why speed needs to be equalized in that thread to prevent it from being a speed stomp thread.

 

[Aparajita]

This isn't the kaguya thread... but this is why speed needs to be equalized in that thread to prevent it from being a speed stomp thread.

When she out ranks him in AP, Dura, and outright killing Hax, speed can't be equalized or else the fight would be a stomp in the opposite direction.

That's why i put 2 rounds in each fight.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

This isn't the kaguya thread... but this is why speed needs to be equalized in that thread to prevent it from being a speed stomp thread.

When she out ranks him in AP, Dura, and outright killing Hax, speed can't be equalized or else the fight would be a stomp in the opposite direction.
That's why i put 2 rounds in each fight.

This is a pretty cool diagram that shows various things that cause a stomp, and being outsped the point where you have to have some specific anti speed blitz hax means the match is a stomp if you don't have those anti speed blitz hax.