You again lol. Ok then
Do you mean this tiger shot from hyuga? If yes this is just a visual effect that the 2018 anime added for their shots. Its like Shidou's Dragon Drive. However, we have Schneider's Fire Shot, which truly lights the ball on fire. I don't know if i assume the shot has hypersonic speed, or the shot has small building ap via this calc, or then both =/
Imo this more so sounds like flowery language to me since if the ball actually caught on fire it would've burned it a lot more than what we actually see in the panel.
Flowery language? Wakabayashi states the fire in Fire Shot is invisible to the naked eye. I don't remember exactly when he mentions this in the manga, but there's this same statement in the RoNC game. And also, in the final of the first half of Germany vs Japan, Fire Shot literally erased Wakabayashi's cap from existence, taking account the shot probably touched his cap slightly
I already calced this feat. I got 0.006 Tons of TNT. I can't link it now because im in mobile. Search for "Muller punches a colossal rock" in blog posts
Being faster than human eye is just Subsonic.
An attack destroying something even though it just grazed the target is just AP, not fire manipulation.
Just checked the calculation in question. I'd say it's a decent calc overall, just has some flaws such as; using a really small reference (Muller's hand) for the pixel scale and not making an end for v frag. Which chapter does Muller perform this feat in? I wanna calculate it myself too.
That's not the case. This is used when a something/someone is faster than an AVERAGE human eye, which is absolutely not the case since they are clearly superhumans. Like, they can propel themselfs high in the air to block shots or do some aerial play; kick balls hard enough to open holes in concrete walls (which is also the main theme of the og post afterall) and stuff like that. Even Hyuga from elementary school arc could kick a ball at subsonic speed. Schneider's Fire Shot frictionates with the air to light the ball on fire, which requires hypersonic speed
i meant than the fire present in the ball was enough to incinerate his cap. I especified this in my calc
Im going to do one so
Chapter 105, page 13
Well you're not wrong entirely, but what you're describing is literally inflating concrete values because characters scale above that value. Of course, blitzing a Subsonic character should realistically be way higher than Subsonic, but we can't give it a specific value.
Like I said, I really highly doubt that's the case.
There's really no proof that the cap is straight up incinerated.
Alright. I will be calculating it. I wanna ask though, is there a shot that broke through Muller's durability (no combination shots)? I think we can make a fairly good scaling chain from there.
uhh... Logically Hypersonic can speedblitz subsonic, no? Oh. I didn't mentioned the full scaling.
Ishizaki literally stating this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Fire_Shot_vs_Japan.png
If we are talking just about Junior Youth arc, then just a full power neo tiger shot from Hyuga, which also injuried Muller's arm and gave a complete burnt appearence to the ball.
I mean as far as I remember, at the start of the JY arc, Wakabayashi was comparable to Schneider's Fire Shot (although Schneider barely beat Waka before transfering to Munich), while at the match between Japan JY vs Hamburg, Waka could easily save a Tiger Shot from Hyuga. That should automatically upscale Fire Shot from Tiger Shot, which would put it at Supersonic. You can't straight up scale it to Hypersonic though.
Alright. So Hyuga at the end of JY scales to 9-A. Any character who's comparable or stronger than him from that point onwards would scale to that.
Fire Shot was a true challenge to Wakabayashi. If you remember, is stated than Schneider could score from outside the penalty area using Fire Shot 50% of the times, while Hyuga and Tsubasa couldn't do this even a single time. During their duel (when Schneider was transferred to Bayern Munich), he scored from outside the penalty area, taking account he also had time to react. Meanwhile he just stopped Tiger Shot just like nothing. How this automatically means Tiger Shot is comparable to Fire Shot?
By using only Muller's feat, yeah. I think we can also argue Tsubasa to this level, since he provides 1/2 of the power in Drive Tiger Twin Shot, which made Muller remembers that moment of the boulder
Its literally the firsts seconds of the video. 0:00
I said Fire Shot gets upscaled from it. Characters that blatantly scale above a feat, but have no exact value on how much they scale above, we simply scale them to that feat, but note that they scale highber. That's why you see stuff like "At least ____(insert an AP or a speed value here)".
I mean you can't exactly say that as it's technically a feat they both perform, but Tsubasa should at least be comparable or superior to Hyuga in any arc, so he should scale.
We don't really see char, ash or anything to justify that the cap burned.
ah...
Did you forgot about Fire Shot calc ;-;?
=: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Screenshot_2025-09-06_17.32.08.png
Well I never told you I agreed with it so...
That's just the visual effect of the shot bro
Why?
I think we are running in circles on this. I gave multiple proofs: one for the ball being truly on fire, one of the method at which the ball lights on fire (air compression), one of the cap being desintegrated. Now explain, how is this a effect if the cap literally disapeared and we have these multiple stataments?
I don't think a vague statement of the ball being truly on fire is enough for a full rating. At best it'd be a "possibly" one.
I don't really see that as the case... It's just getting ripped apart to really small pieces. Even the subtitles of the scan you sent right above shows that.
"Vague" while we have more than three stataments and a whole context for it. The shot is called "Fire Shot" for a reason
Ok, ripped out. Now, If the shot didn't even touched the cap, how it got shredded???
Alright. Lemme go over the statements you have rq:
but blatantly lying about feats isn't cool.
I did some research. Yeah. I was wrong about this. Im going to remake that calc
So, just how then?? Just show me the ball hitting the cap to proof me wrong. For me, this still doesn't makes sense the shot being shreded by air
Im not trying to proof than shredding a cap > ripping a goal net. Im just giving evidence for Fire Shot being fire manipulation. You should at least agree with the ability being limited
That's literally what im saying. Wakabayashi says than one of the possibilities of the shot being on fire is via air compression
Im just defending my point. Obviously i will change my opinion if someone proof me wrong, like i just did with the fire shot calc moments ago
Oh. I forgot to link the scan in my previous reply, but the ball actually does hit Wakabayashi's face, which explains why the cap got shredded from the force.
Air compression doesn't always burn stuff though. It also creates air pressure, which is actually what damaged Ishizaki, not fire. He would've been burned otherwise.
His eyebrow more specifically. Even if it touched, it wasn't a direct contact, but would be slightly at most. I have my doubts now...
So? With enough speed objects can been caught on fire. ishizaki's injurie actually looks like a skin burn
If it touches his eyebrow, it touched his cap too bruh. Where do u wear your cap?
No it doesn't.
How? You literally wear a cap on top of your head, and the ball damaged like 3-4 cm below the top of the head. Considering that the diameter of a soccer ball is more than that, we can assume that the ball also hit the cap.
Games aren't canon to the manga, nor the anime. They're unsuable if you're tryna prove that Manga and Anime Schneider's fire shot is actually a fireball.
But the concepts here are literally the same. Like, why are you still denying when we have direct stataments of Fire shot being a fireball??
I know that. I said some replies ago that i understood than why its speed /=/ mach 5. The "turn the ball into ash" wasn't part of my main argument but alr
Even so, games still aren't canon to the manga so u can't use that as proof.
You shouldn't take all statements at face value.
What are we debating about then? Your initial argument was that Fire Shot scales to Mach 5, now you're saying that it's not.
So now what's the proof of Fire Shot beinging figurative?
Fire Shot being fire manipulation
I don't need one. The burden of proof is on you as you're tryna prove something positive while i'm tryna prove something negative. So far none of the proof you argued for really held up though.
I mean, checking the messages above you're kinda right that the initial point of the debate was fire shot being fire manipulation, but you also said at the start that Fire Shot should've scaled to Mach 5 because of that, so it's kind of a mixture of both points.
I first shown multiple scans and stataments. Again, Wakabayashi has a >>LITERAL<< quote saying than he saw fire from the ball during Fire Shot. Then you said i "shouldn't take all statements at face value". So then i ask for an arg to Fire Shot being figurative and all you say is than my proof is unsustainable??
Yeah. But now i disagree with mach 5 speed arg.
That's fine. This isn't even the place to do so.
