Question about Kamisato's reaction speed

[RaiserAIM]

As is well known, Kamisato had already defeated several nerfed Magic Gods, even destroyed Nephthys' Phase.

And…

She also knew how that silver arm was truly used and what the god who wielded it looked like.

“Anyway, I went around consuming everyone I saw who looked like a Magic God. The only ones I missed were…what were their names again? Zombie, High Priest, and…Othinus? Was that it? I don’t remember, so I can’t really say.”

Those were hopeless words.

Not to mention that he did not include Nephthys’s name on that list.

“Now, what to do about you?”

He truly was speaking on a whim.

Just having him turn his right palm her way was enough for unpleasant sweat to appear on Nephthys’s chocolate skin. It was a mad sweat brought by a mixture of fear and joy.

“Do you wish for a new world?”

“!!!???”

She did not wait any longer.

She realized if she did, she would give in to the joy instead of the fear and she would give herself over to the temptation.

She released her power as a Magic God.

She was surrounded by the deafening sound of thousands of insect wings scraping together. In an instant, her brown silhouette blurred. Her divinity had been created based on the crying woman who was paid to take part in funerals. In this case in particular, that referred to the thousands or tens of thousands of servants who were buried alive in the pyramid for the pharaoh’s burial.

That made Nephthys different from the other Magic Gods. The others had thoroughly honed their powers as an individual, but she had specialized her power as something that could be separated, split apart, cut away, and swapped out.

In other words, she held it in reserve.

Even after being hit by Aleister’s weakening spell, she still had enough power to swap out the phase just once.

(Embed it.)

She bit her lip while aware she was at the disadvantage even as a god.

(Embed the phase, change the world, and use that power to crush-…)

The voice of her heart was cut off.

She heard a tremendous explosion of sound and her phase was crushed.

“Wha-?”

It was squeezed and crushed.

“…Ah…?”

To a third party, it may have looked like the entire scene wavered like a mirage, but this was something else entirely. That did not explain anything, but it was the only way of expressing it. Nephthys froze in place when she saw it and the boy simply clenched his right hand and opened it once more. It almost looked like he was giving her a greeting.

In other words, he could reject and kill even a Magic God using her full power.

-NT13, Epilogue

Based on these feats shouldn't it be obvious that Kamisato has Sub-Relativistic reaction speed?

 

[Churronzon]

Nah, it's far from obvious. It can be said that most of the Magic Gods like Niang-Niang didn't try to dodge the World Rejecter since they wanted to experience a new world.

“I am not absorbing her. Nor am I taking anything from her. I am simply giving her
salvation. But only to the person who believes that this is salvation.”

“Sal...vation?”

She doubted her ears when she heard that unbelievable word.

She grew even more confused when she saw Niang-Niang’s face.

That Magic God girl had always been by her side.

Her expression was not one of fear, doubt, or confusion.

It was swollen with tranquility.

She was smiling.

“Heh...heh heh. It’ll finally be over. I’ll finally be freed. I...I...!! Nephthys, this is amazing!
I...ahh...I’ve never felt so relieved!! Ah ha ha ha ha!!”

Something inside her was clearly absorbed, the size of her body visibly shrank, and she
became nothing but the external skin. But that was what made it so strange. It was just
like how certain wasps numbed their prey’s nerves before feasting on them. The mismatch
between the external phenomenon and the bliss in her mind released a joyful voice from
the girl.

“A new world.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 13 Epilogue

While Nephthys on the other hand was trying not to get WR'd to the point that she was using her one-time use phase manipulation, she was utterly shocked still when Kamisato crushed it, and then BFR'd her body.

She heard a tremendous explosion of sound and her phase was crushed.

“Wha-?”

It was squeezed and crushed.

“...Ah...?”

To a third party, it may have looked like the entire scene wavered like a mirage, but this
was something else entirely. That did not explain anything, but it was the only way of
expressing it. Nephthys froze in place when she saw it and the boy simply clenched his
right hand and opened it once more. It almost looked like he was giving her a greeting.

In other words, he could reject and kill even a Magic God using her full power.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 13 Epilogue

Another problem with sub-rel reaction speed is that Kamisato somewhat evenly fought Touma and Kihara Noukan(w/o A.A.A), who weren't sub-rel at the time.

Kihara Noukan(with the A.A.A) should be the one who actually has sub-rel speed for killing Zombie since they don't have the excuse of "The Magic Gods allowed themselves to be defeated."

For those unaware, it's stated in the A.A.A's profile that Noukan was the one who killed Zombie.

• Mysterious Power: Using the connection to Aleister Crowley to draw on his power fills the Anti-Art Attachment with a mysterious power. For example, Noukan was able to create a perfect circle around him by displacing water away from him. The suit can also apparently be used to transmit Aleister's willpower and use it to destroy the target, as when Noukan was using the drill against the High Priest the narration mentioned that there was a slight unevenness in the drill’s rotation in a pattern that conveyed the power of someone’s will, which took the form of something that destroyed the High Priest’s body from within. It's hinted this power allows the suit to kill immortals and other powerful beings, as Noukan used it to kill Zombie and he also stated it was designed to be used on beings like Aiwass, Fräulein Kreutune and Ladylee Tangleroad. Due to the magic link of the suit, an esper who uses it will experience a rejection reaction, even if they are only using its conventional weapons.

 

[RaiserAIM]

Nah, it's far from obvious. It can be said that most of the Magic Gods like Niang-Niang didn't try to dodge the World Rejecter since they wanted to experience a new world.

Isn't this just Niang-Niang? we don't know what about the other Magic Gods.

While Nephthys on the other hand was trying not to get WR'd to the point that she was using her one-time use phase manipulation, she was utterly shocked still when Kamisato crushed it, and then BFR'd her body.

Isn't Phase Manipulation here at Sub-Rel speed? Due to the scale of Nephthys' speed, right after Phase Manipulation was launched, Kamisato was able to quickly destroy it, although I doubt this is a feat for reaction speed or not.

Another problem with sub-rel reaction speed is that Kamisato somewhat evenly fought Touma and Kihara Noukan(w/o A.A.A), who weren't sub-rel at the time.

In this case, it may depend on the opponent, so the words "Up to Sub-Relativistic reaction speed (depending on the opponent)" are needed.

Kihara Noukan(with the A.A.A) should be the one who actually has sub-rel speed for killing Zombie since they don't have the excuse of "The Magic Gods allowed themselves to be defeated."

For those unaware, it's stated in the A.A.A's profile that Noukan was the one who killed Zombie.

If you think so, it's weird if you don't think that Kamisato doesn't have the same speed, after all we don't really know how Noukan kills Zombies, in fact Kamisato's feats make more sense since he didn't just defeat one Magic God.

So in conclusion Kamisato can get Sub-Relativistic reaction speed, and Noukan can also get Sub-Relativistic speed, but it takes the word "Possibly", because we don't really know how the two of them defeated Magic God.

 

[Churronzon]

I actually find Kamisato erasing missiles, plasma cannons, etc more impressive.

Hm, I hadn't actually read what Kamisato's current speed was before I typed my prior comment. My revision would downgrade Kamisato, lol. I didn't know it was accepted that his reaction speed could be much higher, so I guess I'm neutral when it comes to giving him a possibly/likely sub-relativistic reaction speed.

However, I'd still be against fully giving him sub-rel reaction speed that doesn't have a "possibly" or "likely" in it.

Isn't this just Niang-Niang? we don't know what about the other Magic Gods.

We know all of them are enticed. That's the reason they can even be World Rejected.

In this case, it may depend on the opponent, so the words "Up to Sub-Relativistic reaction speed (depending on the opponent)" are needed.

"Depending on the opponent" can't be used if you can't provide an explanation for why he would have higher reaction speed vs some attack than others, like Touma's precog vs supernatural attacks. I recommend using the current wording and just changing it to "Likely Sub-relativistic reaction speed" (Not that I'm in support of it.)

If you think so, it's weird if you don't think that Kamisato doesn't have the same speed, after all we don't really know how Noukan kills Zombies,

Well we can be reasonably sure that Zombie didn't just let Noukan kill her. Noukan also has to put a lot more effort since he has to do more than just swing his arm around a bit and also has to fight a Magic God to the actual death. Although I will admit she could have been caught off guard due to not knowing of the A.A.A's full potential.

Isn't Phase Manipulation here at Sub-Rel speed?

I have no idea if the speed section determines the speed of every technique as well. Unless Nephthys' sub-rel applies to all her Attacks/Techniques I don't see any justification for that, no. It took longer than a moment for the phase to embed into the world.

Just because I'm curious, do we know what attack gives Othinus her instantaneous attack speed? Is it Gungnir?

in fact Kamisato's feats make more sense since he didn't just defeat one Magic God.

Difference is that Noukan did it without an attack that both perfectly counters the Magic Gods and encourages them to be defeated.

Whatever conclusion is reached, Kamisato and Noukan(w/o A.A.A) should have comparable speeds since it would again make no sense for why he would take so much damage from a dog that has peak human speed, while Kamisato has sub-rel reaction speed.

 

[RaiserAIM]

We know all of them are enticed. That's the reason they can even be World Rejected.

Yes, but they were enticed after entering the World Rejecter not before, because the World Rejecter was different from the previous world like they could freely use their powers, therefore they were enticed.

"Depending on the opponent" can't be used if you can't provide an explanation for why he would have higher reaction speed vs some attack than others, like Touma's precog vs supernatural attacks. I recommend using the current wording and just changing it to "Likely Sub-relativistic reaction speed" (Not that I'm in support of it.)

Yes, I can't prove this, for Touma's case, Precognition doesn't include reaction speed because reacting via moving before your opponent attacks due to precog doesn't meet the definition of reaction speed stats. He essentially aim dodges and, as the speed page says: "For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat."

Just because I'm curious, do we know what attack gives Othinus her instantaneous attack speed? Is it Gungnir?

I don't know about this, you can ask @DontTalkDT

 

[DontTalkDT]

Basically, from all we have seen, Kamisato took them by surprise or even straight-up assassinated them.
We have no clear information of him reaction to anything of them that would necessarily be sub-rel.

Just because I'm curious, do we know what attack gives Othinus her instantaneous attack speed? Is it Gungnir?

Reality Warping tends to be instant, cause it doesn't travel. Kinda like teleportation. Kinda weird to list it like that, though.

 

[RaiserAIM]

Basically, from all we have seen, Kamisato took them by surprise or even straight-up assassinated them.
We have no clear information of him reaction to anything of them that would necessarily be sub-rel.

Wasn't this just when Kamisato fought Nephthys and Niang-Niang? it just didn't make sense that Kamisato only had peak human speed but could defeat a lot of Magic Gods.