Potential Upgrade for Protaganist (Persona 3)?

[TISSG7Redgrave]

This seems a bit fine to go forward though I have my own doubts really I mind as well do it *shrugs* ok so I might be think this may seems far strech and take some powerscaling but the point is that the protaganist of persona 3 has an arcana known as the universe arcana which we know that Tatsuya from persona 2 had the world arcana yet he managed to beat a universal+ but that might seem asking too much so i say at least 6-A potentially 3-A or low 2-C because Igor in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGtDoPQFCSY) that he never dreamed to see the universe arcana with his own eyes and this guy saw tatsuya's final card which is the world indicated its much more powerful and rare to awaken and he says to the protaganist that he has the power of the universe (again quite strechy) so yeah he might need to get that due to Igor noting as something quite unheard of

 

[Alakabamm]

The thing is, the protagonist of each game receives the universe arcana at some point...we would have to powerscale everyone like that, which doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

[CuriousWatcher]

IIRC, the P3 Protagonist was the only one who was stated to have the Universe Arcana on Megami Tensei Wikia. He doesn't even summon a persona when he seals Nyx ( compared to Yu who clearly summoned Izanagi no Okami of the World Arcana ). I haven't played P1 and P2 so I can't say how did it go during Tatsuya's world reset.

My only problem with this upgrade would be the lack of feat to justify his power, in short, is Nyx Low 2-C?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

IIRC, the P3 Protagonist was the only one who was stated to have the Universe Arcana on Megami Tensei Wikia. He doesn't even summon a persona when he seals Nyx ( compared to Yu who clearly summoned Izanagi no Okami of the World Arcana ). I haven't played P1 and P2 so I can't say how did it go during Tatsuya's world reset.
My only problem with this upgrade would be the lack of feat to justify his power, in short, is Nyx Low 2-C?

I said more like going by potential by feats so far it wouldn't really scale to Nyx though apparently the protaganist decided not to kill Nyx because he found out Erebus made Nyx cause the fall so he just seperated them and yeah the only person to obtain the universe arcana was the persona 3 protaganist

 

[CuriousWatcher]

Isee. Well, if it is accepted to be scaled thanks to this statement, I see no problem.

 

[Inoue211]

I actually never thought of P3MC being as low as he is, especially when we know the entire franchise is literally filled with powercreep. He's(as of P3) the strongest MC we've seen going by Igor's words, and he's the only one with Universal Arcana. But there's also the fact that he can use Armageddon, it will cost 100% SP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RDDq9vTdkQ.

In P3P the protagonist can SPAM it(found on youtube FeMC but it's the same thing), it no longer costs SP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3l8jcMbo-0

In P2 IS Armageddon one-shots every enemy, including bosses. In P2 EP It can kill every single enemy, except Philemon.

Meanwhile in P3 it can one-shot everyone except Elizabeth and Nyx.

I still think Igor's words and the Universe arcana are more important since it's the ultimate power up, but I thought it was worth bringing up Armageddon's power anyways.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Haiz...

Shouldnt you guy play the games before making any revision thread ? =3=

Anyway, i gonna say NO To this revision thread...

First of all : Tatsuya's arcana is not The World, it's The Sun.

But that's doesnt matter anyway. The problem is : The power of the Arcana =/= the power of the Persona or it's user. How strong a Personas is depend on how strong the will of users, while arcana is just a way to categorize the Personas

It's obvious that The Universe arcana > The Sun arcana. But Tatsuya himself has gone through entire journey, developed his strenght and ended up on the same level as Philemon and Nyarlathotep. Philemon choose Tatsuya and his friend to be his champions to stop the world destruction set up by Nyarlathotep. Again, in the end, Tatsuya and his friend became stronger than Philemon and Nyarlathotep themself.

Beside, the one who has observe all of Tatsuya's potentials was not Igor, it's Philemon, master of Igor. Another thing is... Igor did not crafted Apollo, like any other Ultimate Persona, Apollo was evolved from Vulcanus. So no, Igor did not seen Tatsuya's last card

 

[Alakabamm]

I didn't make it lol

 

[MagiSinbad]

Now, for the other questions

My only problem with this upgrade would be the lack of feat to justify his power, in short, is Nyx Low 2-C?

Who know, she's a freaking alien came from the outside of the reality. So maybe ? :3

I actually never thought of P3MC being as low as he is, especially when we know the entire franchise is literally filled with powercreep

Why so suprise ? o3o the actual low tier cant even destroy a city block. Even gods like Aramisaki has alot of trouble when faced a multi-city block buster.

He's(as of P3) the strongest MC we've seen going by Igor's words, and he's the only one with Universal Arcana. But there's also the fact that he can use Armageddon, it will cost 100% SP.

using Armageddon as an evidence is not really a wise idea. That's just like saying that every version of Megidolaon is on the same level of Metatron version of Megidolao

I still think Igor's words and the Universe arcana are more important since it's the ultimate power up, but I thought it was worth bringing up Armageddon's power anyways.

Yeah, it's a huge powerup but again. How much it powering Makoto up ? Do you know ? o3o In IS, combination of Tatsuya's crew power can move a solar System, while UC cant even move the Moon =3=

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well it just crossed my mind really magi i just suggested with potential in the tier while 6-A by feats really

 

[MagiSinbad]

It's okay

I was once got that in my mind too. But since i found out it's contradict many thing in Persona franchise, i just leave him at 6-A

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i just think that Igor's statement seems kind of relevent saying that he knew about the card but he never seen anyone unlock the power so that's why i was saying about the ratings due to tatsuya meeting Igor so Igor would know of his strength but one thing is that apperently he decided not to kill nyx as mercy so yeah :/

 

[Inoue211]

@MagiSinbad

"That's just like saying that every version of Megidolaon is on the same level of Metatron version of Megidolaon"

You're just proving my point here, in Persona 2 IS and EP Armageddon is a fusion spell used by Lucifer and Satan. In Persona 3 Armageddon is a fusion spell used by Lucifer and Satan.

Also in case you don't remember. In P3 Satan and Lucifer are the same that in SMT II(You don't have to believe me, just look it up), both "At least 2-A" in here.




We have a LOT of characters powerscaled from beating Metatron or some other powerhouse but in Persona 3 it suddenly doesn't count because... ? It just doesn't count? Doesn't seem fair to me unless there's an explanation I don't know about? Just saiying you know.


We have Igor saying Universe Arcana is the strongest for a good reason.

And by the way, saying that P3MC is weaker than Tatsuya because you feel like Tatsuya's journey is more complete is just your opinion.

Just giving my opinion and the reasons why I believe that in here, I don't agree with P3MC being so weak when there's evidence he's not but whatever if it's not accepted then it's not, not a big deal.

 

[Antvasima]

Just because the company uses the same images as in other games, does not mean that the Persona versions of the characters have displayed anywhere near multiversal feats.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Just because the company uses the same images as in other games, does not mean that the Persona versions of the characters have displayed anywhere near multiversal feats.

yeah if that was the case it would be more SMT style also Ant what do ya think?

 

[Inoue211]

Then Metatron could be say not to be the same metatron in different SMT games.


Anyways that's not the point I was trying to make but me just getting sidetracked. Armageddon in P2 is used by Lucifer and Satan, It can kill every enemy with the exception of Philemon(because he'll use Armageddon R https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Qsfbfbgz8). Armageddon in P3 is used by Lucifer and Satan, it can kill every enemy except Nyx and Elizabeth.


And again, Igor saying that Universe Arcana is the strongest is still a fact.

 

[Antvasima]

@TISSG7Redgrave I think that MagiSinbad seems to make sense.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Then Metatron could be say not to be the same metatron in different SMT games.

Anyways that's not the point I was trying to make, Armageddon in P2 is used by Lucifer and Satan, It can kill every enemy with the exception of Philemon(because he'll use Armageddon R https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Qsfbfbgz8). Armageddon in P3 is used by Lucifer and Satan, it can kill every enemy except Nyx and Elizabeth.


And again, Igor saying that Universe Arcana is the strongest is still a fact.

Well that would make Armegeddon a big NLF if it one shots every enemy also this thread is more to about the universe arcana so thxs for the opinion at least but lets stick to what we need to see if people will accept if Igor's statement is legit

 

[Inoue211]

How is it a NLF? It literally has the power to kill all those enemies, except the ones it can't. Which means those are more powerful than the ones that get killed by it.

There's no NLF there, dunno how you reached that conclusion, at all. "lets stick to what we need to see if people will accept if Igor's statement is legit"

Fair enought, but I doubt they will accept it if they think that P3 characters are weaklings for some reason.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hm well anyway the armeggeddon can damage elizabeth even without the universe arcana but not instant kill though this would definately seperate protag from everyone in P3 completely if the upgrade goes through XD

 

[CuriousWatcher]

We can't scale these Lucifer and Satan to their demon counterpart because they are Personas. They are just reflection/images of the demons, not the actual beings and nothing prove that they are as strong as the demons.

Another point that prevents this is also the fact that Persona, as far as I know, has never been proven to be part of the kinda continuities that tie-in the other games ( eg: the battle between gods and demons, ...).

 

[Inoue211]

There is no proof about them being as strong, stronger or weaker than demons. Anyway that's irrelevant. From the beginning i've been comparing P3 Armageddon with P2, the only reason I mentioned demons is because they look the same.

Now can we stop changing goalposts?. "Armageddon can instantly beat every enemy except Philemon because he counters it. Armageddon in P3 can instantly beat every enemy except Nyx and Elizabeth."


The only reason I brought Armageddon up is to show that Persona 3 characters are not weak, in order to show that the universe Arcana is not just Igor not having a clue about what he's talking because apparently he saying it is not enough for some reason. Still, the OP asked to stop derailing the thread so i'm not talking about it anymore.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's worth pointing out that Personas and Demons are NOT the same thing.

 

[MagiSinbad]

'___' you guy... will never leave me focus on my exam... are you ? =3=

We have a LOT of characters powerscaled from beating Metatron or some other powerhouse but in Persona 3 it suddenly doesn't count because... ? It just doesn't count? Doesn't seem fair to me unless there's an explanation I don't know about? Just saiying you know.

*Super special final ultimate Facepalm* Okay pal, i will stop you there before you can go any furthur and humiliate yourself.

I though that anyone who entering the franchise would know the absolute basis of the Personas : They are nothing more than the mere manifestions of the user personalities that take forms of the deties in the Megami Tensei Franchise

They are NOT THE SAME as their True Demon counterpart. Heh, Joker was once make this clear


Yep, Persona =/= true demons

The Persona's power is based on the user's will, the stronger the user, the stronger the Persona,. Why do you think i even mentioned about Tatsuya's journey ? Because he had gone through his own journey and developes his power, developes his Persona power and show his result in the end of his journey

Am i gonna have to bring up the feats too ?

Even Tatsuya and his crew in the IS can move multiple planets just by using Fusion spell of their Personas, guess what ? They can SPAM that Fusion spell. But in the end, it wasnt enough to hurt Nyarlathotep, yep that's how hardcore Nyarlathotep is. And in Eternal Punishmen, the crew was able to beat up Nyarlathotep, make him accept his complete defeat. That's the result of Tatsuya's power in the end of his journey

While in P3, everyone just like "Yay ! the Moon is falling, we're all gonna die !". Heh, even with the UC, Makoto cant do much again Nyx, sealing Nyx is everything he can do. Yep, that's the best feat of Door-kun.

In general. Personas will NEVER touch the actual demons in the term of power unless they got their own power scailing from the actual deties like Izanami, Hino Kagutsuchi, Pandora, Nyarlathotep.

 

[Antvasima]

@MagiSinbad I agree with your evaluation, and will close this thread. If necessary, feel free to suggest your own Persona character statistics changes when your current studies are done.