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Possible The Beast Upgrades?

ZacharyGrossman273

ZacharyGrossman273

24,183
3,936
First off, AP

DOCTOR: If you are the Beast, then answer me this. Which one, hmm? Cos the universe has been busy since you've been gone. There's more religions than there are planets in the sky. The Archiphets, Orkology, Christianity, Pash Pash, New Judaism, San Klah, Church of the Tin Vagabond. Which devil are you?
VOICE [OC]: All of them.
DOCTOR: What, then you're the truth behind the myth?
VOICE [OC]: This one knows me as I know him. The killer of his own kind.
DOCTOR: How did you end up on this rock?
VOICE [OC]: The Disciples of the Light rose up against me and chained me in the pit for all eternity.
DOCTOR: When was this?
VOICE [OC]: Before time.
DOCTOR: What does that mean?
VOICE [OC]: Before time.
DOCTOR: What does before time mean?
VOICE [OC]: Before light and time and space and matter. Before the cataclysm. Before this universe was created.

The Pre Universe (The universe before this one), is where the Guardians of time first existed in. So should he scale?

Second off, possibly Type 1 abstract existence and conceptual manipulation?

DOCTOR: But that's just the body. The body is trapped, that's all. The devil is an idea. In all those civilisations, just an idea. But an idea is hard to kill. An idea could escape. The mind. The mind of the great Beast. The mind can escape! Oh, but that's it! You didn't give me air, your jailers did. They set this up all those years ago! They need me alive, because if you're escaping, then I've got to stop you. If I destroy your prison, your body is destroyed. Your mind with it.
 
Dzhindzholia said:
He should scale from the Guardians I guess since he fought them and as turns out they couldn't kill him.
Agree.
Click to expand...
If this is the case, I agree with the update.
 
I was almost sure The Beast was reffering to the Guardians of Time in this one:

VOICE [OC]: The Disciples of the Light rose up against me and chained me in the pit for all eternity.

But I revisited the Wiki and as it turns out,no.There is almost no information on The Disciples of the Light in the wiki.So we can not assume that he scales from the Guardians only because he existed before the universe too,maybe we can use "Possibly" in this case.

I am fine with the abstract existence though..
 
Thsi is probably too speculative.
 
Also, the time lords created the web of time, and the beast existed before any form of time the doctor knew, so that would put him above the time lords
 
I've found something in this comic. The Beast, Sutekh the Destroyer, and possibly the Gods of Ragnarok (there's one in the same picture) originate from the same place (which is implied to be the pre-universe). Also, The Beast, Sutekh, and a bunch of unknown characters could not be stopped by Anubis (an Osiria), Dorothy (a woman who merged with Osiran technology), or The Doctor. I think this is clear enough evidence for being High 1-C, possibly 1-B.

  • VOICE [OC]: Before light and time and space and matter. Before the cataclysm. Before this universe was created.
He's missing some powers as well. In The Impossible Planet, The Beast (while disembodied) states if a person were to look at him, they'd die. Maybe possibly Death Manipulation? This same disembodied mind possessed Toby Zed and gave him the ability to project fire from his mouth. Also, there's no justification for Soul Manipulation or Type 9 Immortality.

The Beast should have Type 8 Immortality via continuing to exist as an idea even when destroyed.

  • DOCTOR: You get representations of the Horned Beast right across the universe, in the myths and legends of a million worlds. Earth, Draconia, Velconsadine, Daemos. The Kaled god of war. It's the same image, over and over again. Maybe that idea came from somewhere, bleeding through. The thought at the back of every sentient mind.
  • IDA: Emanating from here?
  • DOCTOR: Could be.
  • IDA: But if this is the original, does that make it real? Does that make it the actual devil, though?
  • DOCTOR: Well, if that's what you want to believe. Maybe that's what the devil is, in the end. An idea.
[...]

  • DOCTOR: You're imprisoned, long time ago. Before the universe, after, sideways, in between, doesn't matter. The prison is perfect. It's absolute, it's eternal. Oh, yes! Open the prison, the gravity field collapses. This planet falls into the black hole! You escape, you die. Brilliant! But that's just the body. The body is trapped, that's all. The devil is an idea. In all those civilisations, just an idea. But an idea is hard to kill. An idea could escape. The mind. The mind of the great Beast. The mind can escape! Oh, but that's it! You didn't give me air, your jailers did. They set this up all those years ago! They need me alive, because if you're escaping, then I've got to stop you. If I destroy your prison, your body is destroyed. Your mind with it.
[...]

  • TOBY (as The Beast): I shall never die. The thought of me is forever. In the bleeding hearts of men, in their vanity and obsession and lust. Nothing shall ever destroy me. Nothing!
I feel that the intelligence section is disingenuous. He was never outsmarted by The Doctor, it's actually stated that The Beast is more intelligent. Also, he battled the Disciples of Light, whose means of maintaining planet around a black hole surpassed The Doctor's understanding, despite his later admition that the Time Lords essentially invented them. Also, upon the destruction of his prison, The Beast bursts into flames, and his mind cannot exist after his body is destroyed, even if separate.
 
I am not at all the right person to evaluate or clear this. You should ask Azathoth to comment here.
 
I personally don't think that we have enough to go on to set any definitive statistics though.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Antvasima said:
I personally don't think that we have enough to go on to set any definitive statistics though.
Click to expand...
"Anubis Tried to Stop Them. He couldn't"
Anubis is the most powerful of The Osirians
Click to expand...
In this case, I think it is enough for the upgrade, as well.
 
I suppose that should probably be fine then.
 
Okay. Tell me here when you are done.
 
Okay. Should we close this thread?
 
His justification is dubious. Sutekh at full power is much stronger than Anubis, as he overpowered him with no effort, and it was implied all this group defeated them, not just The Beast.

Here's a new justification: Originates from the pre-universe, a physicsless cosmos before the existence of time, space and matter that granted the Great Old Ones and Gods of Ragnarok immense power within the the physical laws of the new universe. Defeated Anubis and Dorothy [who had merged with an Osiran harvester] with Sutekh the Destroyer, the Vampires, the Early Ones, Deities of Dust and Destruction, and the Death Lords, and was implied to have done so with ease.
 
Okay. Should I unlock the page again for the improved justification?
 
Okay. Tell me here when you are done.
 
No problem. Should we close this thread?
 
I do not know. Is the page unreliable?

We probably need furher input first, and in addition, we would need to update all of the pages that link to it.
 
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