possible Dragonball speed upgrade

[Antvasima]

@DontTalk Would you be willing to write a new blog post for the calculation?

 

[DontTalk]

Sure, but before that I would want to know if the assumption of Kaios planet being in the center of the universe is legitimate.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I had a pretty good look at where I thought it may be mentioned in both the Super manga and anime and found nothing.

I suspect it may purely be from the Daizenshuu map.

 

[Alexcar3000]

I can't see the images (for some reason) but if they are using the old U7 map, then we have a problem... because nothing is on scale in that map.

DontTalk's calc (which doesn't use that map) seems fine. We know that the Earth is located on the edge of the Universe. But about Kaio's planet being located on the center of the Universe... I don't know if that's true.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

Kai Realm is above Heaven and Living World is below it and Heaven=Universe so calc is valid

 

[Antvasima]

No off-topic derailing please.

 

[DontTalk]

Man from Shadow:Hmm...? I don't really know much about dragonball, but wasn't heaven a place in the cosmos and the cosmos a place above the universe of equal size with the King Kais planet just somewhere in it?

At least that's how it looked on the map we don't use anymore...

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Dragon Ball always had their combat speed higher than their travel speed.

Hardly.

 

[SomebodyData]

Dragon Ball always had their combat speed higher than their travel speed.

Hardly.

i could give like 3 examples off the top of my head

-Kid Goku having SS reactions while being able to run at Superhuman speeds

-Goku using the Flying Nimbus (Which is mach 2 I believe) til the Sayian Saga

-Goku flying in an extreme rush to get to his friends on Namek (Which was Rel) compared to semi casually blocking Frieza's LS attacks, (which got him at FTL)

 

[DeezNuts1102]

@Alexcar: i think the calc is based on the Daizenshuu Map. But the map is still valid at some point, the only problem is that the Mortal Universe is 4 galaxy-sized. The other world, kai realm, supreme kai's planets in that map are still usable materials in Dragonball Super because King kai's planet and Supreme Kai's planet still exist and were shown in Super more than couple of times now. If you remove the below half of the Map which is the 4 galaxy-sized universe and replace it with our own universe, i think the calc is plausible.

 

[Antoniofer]

i could give like 3 examples off the top of my head

-Kid Goku having SS reactions while being able to run at Superhuman speeds

-Goku using the Flying Nimbus (Which is mach 2 I believe) til the Sayian Saga

-Goku flying in an extreme rush to get to his friends on Namek (Which was Rel) compared to semi casually blocking Frieza's LS attacks, (which got him at FTL)

That could be true for a long time, but all those feats were justified: they always show that there were faster in combat and reflexes due that they doesn't travel that fast, there are even several calcs that support that; but now all this seems differents, in DBS I mean, there hasn't been no proofs that they are always faster in battle than in fly, even in the fights, if DBS has show us that there has been several changes compared with DBZ, maybe this is one of those changes

 

[LordXcano]

@Anton That's conjecture though. Things are different but we don't know if that in particular is any different.

Either way stop talking about the universe size and instead whether or not the calc is good alright

 

[Antoniofer]

^Already done, the calc seems good and I'm not disagreed with the "upgrade" (still being mftl+ tho)

 

[RadicalMrR]

^Already done, the calc seems good and I'm not disagreed with the "upgrade" (still being mftl+ tho)

But it's still good to leave a link to the calc on there pages so people know just how fast they are

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

sooo wait it uses the old and not to scale dbu diagram and assumes the universe is only as big as the observable universe?

may not be counted as legit here then ...

 

[Victor2]

Sure, but before that I would want to know if the assumption of Kaios planet being in the center of the universe is legitimate.

kaio planet is in the heaven tho not in living universe. and heaven=universe in size according to map.

@The Living Tribunal1 well, nothing contradicting happend thus far so the calculation should work here aswell as the map

 

[Antvasima]

Can everybody please permanently stop derailing the topic, both here and elsewhere. Othervise, we might have to start handing out blocks.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

ok the link i checked used the old map

which over here, is not considered anymore

also the calc assumes dbu is only the size of the observable universe

actual universe >>>>>>> observable universe

so dbu diameter shud be >>>>>>> 93 billion light years

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I actually got PM'd by Faisal about this. Apparently because it used the old DBZ map and whatever, the calc is unsuable here for DBS in anyway....so he basically told me that there's nothing to discuss about here.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hmmm

there have been many cases of crossing cosmic distances and we even have time for quite a few of them

but sadly no distance measurement

hence we had to low ball stuff to the extreme

hopefully we get a definitively quantifiable speed feat soon

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if the "actual universe" means the infinite empty void outside of all physical matter within the universe, I do not think that we can count that, only use the calculated size of how much the physical matter has expanded since the Big Bang.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

its really hard to determine tbh maybe we should try to use observable universe to be safe

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, if the "actual universe" means the infinite empty void outside of all physical matter within the universe, I do not think that we can count that, only use the calculated size of how much the physical matter has expanded since the Big Bang.

actually

no

there are finite models of the universe

i mean with extended inflation, we get retardedly huge sized for the universe

but still, iirc the universe it wud be at the very least like 250 x observable universe (at least) [can be used as low end for a calc]

also we dont accept observable universe for our 3-A tiering, so why shud we use it for this calc in particular?

also according tothis article , if we assume the sphere model, then the universe is at least 14 trillion light years in diameter including unobservable part

soooo we cud make a new calc

with low end of 250 x observable universe radius

and high end of 325 x observable universe radius to get our results


BUT

we still face a problem even aif we did this low end stuff

the map to be used for calculations is obsolete


SO IMO, we cant get a speed from what we have now

 

[LordAizenSama]

So... just close this thread? seems to be going nowhere.

 

[TheArcosian]

i think thise thread should be closed there is just no Answer right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe TLT1 could re-do the calculation with the full size that the universe has expanded to since the Big Bang?

 

[DontTalk]

mmmhhh... I am sceptical towards using higher universe sizes. Articles sometimes disagree on what the low end is (the two linked by TLT1 for example state 250 and 150 times bigger than teh observable one) and there is a very good chance that the real universe is infinite and by that just not a measuring stick for finite ones.

Given that we talk about universes that have an edge their geometry clearly is also very different from ours in the first place, so the non-euclidean model we use to get our size technically holds no relevance when applied to them.

Given that I am in favor of using the observable universe as standard low end estimate of universe size things in fiction.

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

agreed DontTalk

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

yeah a good lowball really

 

[RadicalMrR]

Yeah I also don't see why we can't use this lowballed feat and change it when we get a better one

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

mmmhhh... I am sceptical towards using higher universe sizes. Articles sometimes disagree on what the low end is (the two linked by TLT1 for example state 250 and 150 times bigger than teh observable one) and there is a very good chance that the real universe is infinite and by that just not a measuring stick for finite ones.
Given that we talk about universes that have an edge their geometry clearly is also very different from ours in the first place, so the non-euclidean model we use to get our size technically holds no relevance when applied to them.

Given that I am in favor of using the observable universe as standard low end estimate of universe size things in fiction.

well, their universe could very well be like our own

our own universe could have a very small curvature

and hence ends up looking like hypersphere-like shape overall

my main point is, treating dbu as big as only observable universe isnt gaurenteed to be correct

so the base assumtpion itself is weak here

my position is that so far we really dont have anything other than the lowball we have for dbs speeds