Phoenix force (Fox) revisions.

[FentyBeauty]

It is not clear ,like what I said:

I understand, but what it showed was just giving life to planets and galaxies instead of creating the universe. So, essentially, giving life to the universe meant just forming galaxies.

giving life to planets that don’t got life on them in the first place is life manipulation/transmutation, which again has nothing to do with its creation hax

you’re kinda just overcomplicating the statement bc being the spark that gave life to the universe is just signifying that the phoenix just birthed the universe into existence/was the reason for its creation to happen hence the “gave life” part

Wasn't this already being discussed?:

they were talking about the phoenix destroying planets which has nothing to do with it’s creation feat

 

[Hixkaryana]

After seeing all arguments I will be neutral on this matter. Because I haven't seen anyone specify whether phoenix force was cause of BigBang

Well technically since the PF is the most powerful entity in the Universe, it should scale above the BB.

 

[Hixkaryana]

And It’s Vuk who showed how the Phoenix gave life to the universe was just forming planets and galaxies. Intergalactic is not the same as the universe, but as you said, it could be Universal. I didn’t disagree with that possibility, which is why I said this:

Do you realize how goofy that would look on her profile? « Possibly far higher » with the justification being her literally birthing the Universe..

 

[FentyBeauty]

And It’s Vuk who showed how the Phoenix gave life to the universe was just forming planets and galaxies. Intergalactic is not the same as the universe, but as you said, it could be Universal. I didn’t disagree with that possibility, which is why I said this:

vuk was showing jean how the phoenix destroyed the world where she came from so idk how that makes the statement any less than it is

and again intergalactic doesn’t also disprove its’ creation feat bc like u can have powerful beings permeating across galaxies who also have the power to do weird shit to the universe and we also have the statement of it being the most powerful creature in the entire universe so idk why we’re limiting the phoenix to galaxies

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Well technically since the PF is the most powerful entity in the Universe, it should scale above the BB.

That seems like an overblown theory, since BB created space-time, and time seems to have existed before Phoenix. Therefore it is impossible to be phoenix force more powerful than BB. I disagree with this

 

[Hixkaryana]

vuk was showing jean how the phoenix destroyed the world where she came from so idk how that makes the statement any less than it is

and again intergalactic doesn’t also disprove its’ creation feat bc like u can have powerful beings permeating across galaxies who also have the power to do weird shit to the universe and we also have the statement of it being the most powerful creature in the entire universe so idk why we’re limiting the phoenix to galaxies

To also add to that, Vuk only showed Jean what she had seen before. Vuk wasn’t there when the Universe was formed so how tf was she supposed to show it to Jean?

 

[DivineCreator389]

Do you realize how goofy that would look on her profile? « Possibly far higher » with the justification being her literally birthing the Universe..

It’s from Vuk's statement, which is the same one that says the Phoenix Force is the greatest force in the galaxy. Intergalactic feats seem more official.

giving life to planets that don’t got life on them in the first place is life manipulation/transmutation, which again has nothing to do with its creation hax

You don't get it. That's how its creation hax work.. giving/forming life of planets. You just misinterpreted it.

 

[FentyBeauty]

That seems like an overblown theory, since BB created space-time, and time seems to have existed before Phoenix. Therefore it is impossible to be phoenix force more powerful than BB. I disagree with this

causing the big bang is 3-A at minimum if no other context is provided

otherwise characters like arishem would be low 2-C via that vfx statement he has that made him 3-A in the first place of him apparently causing the big bang which is arguably similar to the phoenix’s statement just worded in a different way

 

[FentyBeauty]

To also add to that, Vuk only showed Jean what she had seen before. Vuk wasn’t there when the Universe was formed so how tf was she supposed to show it to Jean?

right??? like hello

 

[FentyBeauty]

It’s from Vuk's statement, which is the same one that says the Phoenix Force is the greatest force in the galaxy. Intergalactic feats seem more official.

and also statements like how its the most powerful creature in the entire universe and that like i mentioned earlier being the greatest force in the galaxy shouldn’t be used to limit it or make it any less than what it has from its 3-A creation feat bc generally statements like “most powerful” or “greatest/strongest” are used for upscaling characters or supporting other statements/feats that can be used for their upgrades

You don't get it. That's how its creation hax work.. giving/forming life of planets. You just misinterpreted it.

well the only scene where it shows the phoenix giving life to planets is the phoenix travelling to an desolate world that dont got life until its energies gave it water and trees which is like life manipulation/transmutation

 

[DivineCreator389]

and also statements like how its the most powerful creature in the entire universe and that like i mentioned earlier being the greatest force in the galaxy shouldn’t be used to limit it or make it any less than what it has from its 3-A creation feat bc generally statements like “most powerful” or “greatest/strongest” are used for upscaling characters or supporting other statements/feats that can be used for their upgrades

The most powerful creature in the universe isn't going to support this, as it is also described as intergalactic. That isn't enough to support the idea that Phoenix is 3-A without possibly or likely 3-A.

well the only scene where it shows the phoenix giving life to planets is the phoenix travelling to an desolate world that dont got life until its energies gave it water and trees which is like life manipulation/transmutation

I think that's how Phoenix gave life to the universe, or maybe it's through life manipulation/transmutation, as that is what it shows in giving life.

 

[RoTt35]

The PF being the spark that gave life to the universe is Creation, it creating life on planets is Transmutation, they are two different things as clarified in its profile

 

[FentyBeauty]

The most powerful creature in the universe isn't going to support this, as it is also described as intergalactic. That isn't enough to support the idea that Phoenix is 3-A without possibly or likely 3-A.

‘intergalactic’ doesn’t disprove the phoenix being 3-A and idk how that contradicts the “most powerful creature in the entire universe” statement bc u can have intergalactic entities also being the most powerful forces in the universe at the same time

I think that's how Phoenix gave life to the universe, or maybe it's through life manipulation/transmutation, as that is what it shows in giving life.

the universe isnt living nor does it have a life force, it contains life itself so i dont see how life manipulation would work in this case as we only see it using it to give a planet some water and nature

being the spark that gave life to the universe is just indicating that the phoenix caused the universe itself to start or develop into existence which is like also showing that the phoenix represents the big bang of the universe

 

[BunBun]

will fix the thread, as everyone agrees the Phoenix is far higher than at least 4-A, but 3-B, since the Phoenix Force is intergalactic and Jean is the most powerful creature in the entire universe. And I want to know what y'all think.

 

[RoTt35]

Most people here think that the Phoenix Force is 3-A, there is no reason for it to be 3-B if you discard Vuk's statement

 

[DivineCreator389]

As we know, the Phoenix Force is 5-A, up to 3-A via creation hax.

However, I think it should be At least 5-A, up to 3-B , likely far higher with creation. The Phoenix Force may not have directly created the entire universe, it has been shown to give life to the stars it passes over.

It's also described as intergalactic, capable of easily creating or destroying planets and anything it encounters. Jean Grey is also described as the most powerful being in the entire universe.

3-B rating seems more reliable than 3-A, as there are no feats showing the Phoenix Force creating the entire universe. Its power is more focused on giving life to planets (galaxies) much like the Celestials from MCU.

Agree with the new one

 

[BunBun]

Most people here think that the Phoenix Force is 3-A, there is no reason for it to be 3-B if you discard Vuk's statement

There are 3 people who disagree, and 3 people agree. So no.

 

[BunBun]

Most people here think that the Phoenix Force is 3-A, there is no reason for it to be 3-B if you discard Vuk's statement

From what I've read, you guys are misunderstanding and taking the words too far. The meaning of what Vuk said shouldn't be interpreted that way.

 

[FentyBeauty]

From what I've read, you guys are misunderstanding and taking the words too far. The meaning of what Vuk said shouldn't be interpreted that way.

well like we also explained how u guys are overcomplicating vuk’s statement and how none of that correlates to why the phoenix should be downgraded so…

like these r the arguments so far:

Spoiler: YAP

1. “phoenix is intergalactic, so the phoenix being the most powerful creature in the universe shouldn’t support the universes creation”
counter: u can have intergalactic beings also having universal feats so being described as intergalactic doesn’t really debunk anything if the phoenix can traverse the universe and also create it as well

2. “phoenix is the greatest force of the galaxy, so why would it be universal if its only greatest in the galaxy”
counter: that would just upscale the phoenix from any being within that galaxy so therefore its the strongest there and would just simply also support that it’s capable of creating the universe, and also that we have a statement of phoenix being the most powerful creature in the entire universe so its unnecessary to limit the phoenix itself to tiers below 3-A based on wording referring to the galaxy

3. “phoenix gave life to the universe is just phoenix giving life to planets and galaxies when saying phoenix was the spark that gave life to the universe”
counter: vuk only showed jean what the phoenix did to her world and then moments after demonstrated how powerful it is by showing how it was able to give water n nature to a planet which is life manipulation/transmutation hax, which also has nothing to do w its creation feat, and “being the spark that gave life to the universe” indicates that it caused the universe to come to existence/and its development, which also is to represent how it’s basically the big bang in the universe in this case. either way, if we don’t count the creation feat to be 3-A, then u also have to prove how it would be 3-B because “greatest force in the galaxy” doesn’t operate well on its own and is not enough to support that, other than it creating the universe

anyways i’m going to sleep so i won’t be responding for a while

 

[RoTt35]

There are 3 people who disagree, and 3 people agree. So no.

There are 3 who disagree, 2 who agree (including the op), and 1 neutral

 

[BunBun]

well like we also explained how u guys are overcomplicating vuk’s statement and how none of that correlates to why the phoenix should be downgraded so…

like these r the arguments so far:

Spoiler: YAP

1. “phoenix is intergalactic, so the phoenix being the most powerful creature in the universe shouldn’t support the universes creation”
counter: u can have intergalactic beings also having universal feats so being described as intergalactic doesn’t really debunk anything if the phoenix can traverse the universe and also create it as well

2. “phoenix is the greatest force of the galaxy, so why would it be universal if its only greatest in the galaxy”
counter: that would just upscale the phoenix from any being within that galaxy so therefore its the strongest there and would just simply also support that it’s capable of creating the universe, and also that we have a statement of phoenix being the most powerful creature in the entire universe so its unnecessary to limit the phoenix itself to tiers below 3-A based on wording referring to the galaxy

3. “phoenix gave life to the universe is just phoenix giving life to planets and galaxies when saying phoenix was the spark that gave life to the universe”
counter: vuk only showed jean what the phoenix did to her world and then moments after demonstrated how powerful it is by showing how it was able to give water n nature to a planet which is life manipulation/transmutation hax, which also has nothing to do w its creation feat, and “being the spark that gave life to the universe” indicates that it caused the universe to come to existence/and its development, which also is to represent how it’s basically the big bang in the universe in this case. either way, if we don’t count the creation feat to be 3-A, then u also have to prove how it would be 3-B because “greatest force in the galaxy” doesn’t operate well on its own and is not enough to support that, other than it creating the universe

anyways i’m going to sleep so i won’t be responding for a while

Yeah, this totally confirms what I said. Y'all took the words too far from their meaning, so I'll wait until the staff comes and comments.

 

[Chris_only9271]

“phoenix is intergalactic, so the phoenix being the most powerful creature in the universe shouldn’t support the universes creation”
counter: u can have intergalactic beings also having universal feats so being described as intergalactic doesn’t really debunk anything if the phoenix can traverse the universe and also create it as well

2. “phoenix is the greatest force of the galaxy, so why would it be universal if its only greatest in the galaxy”
counter: that would just upscale the phoenix from any being within that galaxy so therefore its the strongest there and would just simply also support that it’s capable of creating the universe, and also that we have a statement of phoenix being the most powerful creature in the entire universe so its unnecessary to limit the phoenix itself to tiers below 3-A based on wording referring to the galaxy

3. “phoenix gave life to the universe is just phoenix giving life to planets and galaxies when saying phoenix was the spark that gave life to the universe”
counter: vuk only showed jean what the phoenix did to her world and then moments after demonstrated how powerful it is by showing how it was able to give water n nature to a planet which is life manipulation/transmutation hax, which also has nothing to do w its creation feat, and “being the spark that gave life to the universe” indicates that it caused the universe to come to existence/and its development, which also is to represent how it’s basically the big bang in the universe in this case. either way, if we don’t count the creation feat to be 3-A, then u also have to prove how it would be 3-B because “greatest force in the galaxy” doesn’t operate well on its own and is not enough to support that, other than it creating the universe

This is enough to prove that the Phoenix should still be 3-A, and there is still no reasonable proof to downgrade the Phoenix below 3-A,
so I disagree.