Pennywise vs. Emnn

[Jinsye]

Emnn

The World isn't above us or below us. Why, it's in the palm of my hand. It is my hand. The one I wipe with. ~ Emnn, meeting the Coolie​ Powers and Stats Tier: Low 2-C Name: Emnn, The Devil Origin: Where They Cremate the Roadkill Gender: Male Age: Unknown Classification: Devil, Demiurge Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Immortality (Types 1, 4 and 8), Non-Corporeal, Abstract Existence, Shapeshifting, Size Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Creation, Danmaku, Reality Warping, Levitatio, Mind Manipulation (Mind Reading and Mind Control), Telepathy, Possession, Duplication, Pocket Reality Manipulation/Creation, Death Manipulation, Animal Manipulation (Summoned a giant demonic alligator to consume Coolie), Body Control (Can disconnect his arms, hands, and facial features, resize them, and make them levitate around), Earth Manipulation, Time Manipulation (Stated to be able to create time), Explosion Manipulation, Teleportation, Light Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Created Genie, whose bullets can harm and kill beings that embody abstract concepts. Personified Coolie's senses into sentient beings, making them attack him.), Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Can easily create a Genie, and transform it into a more powerful form) Speed: Infinite (Stated to not be limited by time), likely Nigh-Omnipresent (He is the embodiment of the evil thoughts that are exchanged by the mouths and the ears of every being, stated that Coolie has, in truth, "Only met him in different guises") Lifting Strength: Unknow Striking Strength: Universal+ Durability: Universe level+ Stamina: Unknown Range: Planetary via shapeshifting and teleportation Standard Equipment: Genie, Chat Kat Intelligence: Should be very high. By his very nature, he is skilled at manipulating individuals into his plans Weaknesses: His power and influence presumably depends on the level of sin and chaos in the world Notable Attacks/Techniques: None

Pennywise

Powers and Stats Tier At least Low 2-C Name: "IT", The Spider, The Deadlights, Pennywise the Dancing Clown, Robert Gray Origin: IT Gender: Genderless Age: Immeasurable (exists beyond time and space) Classification: Ancient "demonic" entity Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Reality Warping, Regenerationn (Low-High), Shapeshifting, Invisibility, Non-Corporeal, Illusion Creation, Teleportation, Telepathy, Mind Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Biological Manipulation and Disease Manipulation (Stated that it could point at victims and grant them diseases, as well as make a person's tongue run with pus in the same manner), Blood Manipulation, Possession, Weather Manipulation, Immortality (Type 9), Madness Manipulation (Type 4; A single glance at its true form drives victims so insane that they suffer an instantaneous death. One particular victim experienced such an extreme reaction that spurts of blood discharged from his brain when he died) Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Exists beyond space and time in a realm with no true physical form. The natural enemy of Maturi, who created the universe on accident during a stomachache. Exists within and encompasses the Deadlights, a parallel universe). Speed: Unknow. Likely Omnipresent within the Deadlights. Lifting Strength: SuperHuman Striking Strength: Unknow Durability: At least Universe level+ Stamina: Unknown Range: Multi-Universal (can manifest itself in other universes) Standard Equipment: None. Intelligence: Very high. Weaknesses: It underestimates and scorns humanity, considering them weak, and toys with them. It makes mistakes and does illogical things fairly regularly. It is sensitive to psychic energy, so collective belief and courage can overcome it. When It transforms into a shape, it must comply to the laws of that shape. It goes into hibernation for 26-27 years between cycles, and during that time, it is vulnerable to attack. Notable Attacks/Techniques: Shapeshifting: It can shapeshift, taking the form of anything it pleases - often basing its form off of the worst fears of its prey, such as swarms of flying leeches, but it can potentially become anything it wants to, within reason. However, when it shapeshifts into a new form, it is still bound by the laws and restrictions of that form. Between shapeshifting, it appears as an amorphous orange goo. Invisibility: It is only visible to its prey and those that it has hunted in the past; otherwise, it cannot be detected by normal means, nor can its illusions. Illusions: It can create realistic illusions capable of harming others, such as simple balloons, moving photographs, gushing blood, sounds and sensations, and human organs. Key: Manifestation in Derry | True Form

Pennywise is Omnipresent, Emnn is Nigh-Omnipresent.

Fight takes place in the Deadlights since Pennywise is Omnipresent.

Who wins?

A Clown's True Form: 0

A Thing....: 0

 

[DMUA]

How good are Emnn's mental powers?

 

[Jinsye]

Not exactly sure, I need to get to playing this weird af game myself.

As a note, Madness Manip should not affect Emnn because.... his verse is probably stranger than anything Stephen King can cook up.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah, I agree that driving Emnn insane likely won't work.

I'll wait for Arbitrary before I make a vote.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Everyone in the John Clowder Verse has their head in the clouds to some extent but everything that happens within it is still reality. Certainly it wouldn't make you immune to "going so mad that you die and have blood spurt out of your head".

However would that really work on someone who is on your level? Usually the rationale behind stuff like that in fiction is not being able to perceive the being's true form. Also, Emnn is 10,000 times Low 2-C. Would they both be able to attack each other normally, since they both have abstract existence?

I encourage anybody who is able to play the game btw. The game itself is frustrating at times, but god damn if the game's presentation doesn't stick with you.

 

[Jinsye]

I thought Madness Manipulation Type 4 could be bypassed by just seeing enough weird shit so it wouldn't really affect you.

The John Clowder verse definitely qualifies for 'enough weird shit.'

Emnn is also weird AF himself so it he might bypass it.

 

[DMUA]

Snip

So... To answer my question of whether or not Emnn gets his rear end Mindhaxed, how stronk are his mental powers?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I thought Madness Manipulation Type 4 could be bypassed by just seeing enough weird shit so it wouldn't really affect you.
The John Clowder verse definitely qualifies for 'enough weird shit.'

Emnn is also weird AF himself so it he might bypass it.

Well after looking at the limitations listed on the page, then yeah I'm certain Emnn definitely meets the criteria needed to resist it.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

 

[Jinsye]

Also they both have ways of damaging eachother.

Penny has mindrape and Emnn has mindhax and shooting Space-Time via the Genie.

 

[DMUA]

I mean.

As soon as Emnn pulls a gun on Penny he's going to get mindhaxed unto Oblivion.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I don't remember why I gave Emnn mind manipulation. I'll see if I can play through Roadkill a bit, because I believe I found it somewhere in Emnn's first appearance.

 

[DMUA]

Ohkey

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I only found stuff for mind reading, not mind control.

I think the Mind Control came from speculation on my part. I assumed he was just controlling or manipulating Coolie or something. In hindsight I think it was more of a persuasion thing.

Emnn is very persuasive and manipulative.

 

[DMUA]

So yeah.

I'll cast a vote for penny via M I N D H A X

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I also found out that Emnn didn't actually create Genie, he explicitly said it was in the "warm corner of my pocket".

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I should probably make a revision thread. I've got some other stuff too.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Also, Emnn is 10,000 times Low 2-C.

W h a t

 

[Jinsye]

Yes, 10,000 times Low 2-C.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I didn't even know the tier ''went'' that high.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean, the difference between destroying one and two universes is unquantifiable, so it's Low 2-C because Coolie destroyed 10,000 universes stacked on eachother.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

...

What.

That sounds like 2-B in the extreme. Why the hell is that still considered Low 2-C?

 

[Jinsye]

Because they aren't exactly seperated per say.

They're stacked on eachother so it's kind of like one big universe.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Because 2-C and stuff needs to cover the distance between two space-time continuum too. And there is no such distance here.

It's like having a big ass space-time.

 

[DMUA]

So yeah.

I'll cast a vote for penny via M I N D H A X

You still haven't counted this

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

So if I counted right...

Emnn - 1

IT - 0

 

[DMUA]

I did not vote for Emnn in the slightest.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Oh I misread

But Emnn definitely meets the criteria for having a resistance to that kind of mindhax, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work on someone who is actually far above IT, unlike the many children it preys upon

 

[DMUA]

The losers club, while amped by Maturi, still got absolutely trashed by IT in a psychic battle. In the end they needed help from Ga to actually beat him.

 

[Jinsye]

Didn't Gan really only help the Losers Club because Maturin wasn't there?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

^I'm pretty sure it's that.

Although I need to finish rereading the book before I say anything for certain, since I'm running into a bunch of things I've completely forgotten from the original novel and I'm not keen on making any statements that I may have to amend later.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Emnn still fits the criteria for having a resistance to it.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

On the other hand however, the whole madness-inducing thing isn't Pennywise's mindhax; it's just what happens when someone looks at it. Its mindhax involves actual mind control, memory-wiping, hallucinations and (in extreme cases) it pulling a victim's mind out by force and dragging it out of reality to be assimilated into its true form where it houses countless others.

A note Emnn's state of existence may help determine whether or not that'll work, though. Is he existentially "above" the 10,000 universes that're stacked on each other? Or is he just capable of destroying them with his power?

 

[Jinsye]

No idea so far.

From what I know Emnn is the abstract embodiment of all of the evil and sins in the world. Whiiiich won't help him in the long run unless Penny dicks around too much.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

He's not above them but he can definitely destroy them.

However he's similar in nature to IT's true form. Non corporeal and is described as "not only the mouths and ears of every creature, but the ideas and thoughts they communicate", so it's a very, very abstract state of existence.

My personal interpretation is that his level of power and influence seem to increase proportionately with the amount of evil in the world, which is why he was trying so hard to persuade Coolie into killing so many people.

I forgot I'm not the OP here though. So I think Emnn takes this via the sheer AP advantage; one unconscious flail of the non-corporeal wrist would probably be enough to wipe out IT.

I plan to downgrade BoG Emnn though so it's not going to be a factor for very long.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Yeah, IT probably dies tbh. I think it'd be a stretch to say that he could affect a being that's abstract on a scale 10,000 times his own with his mindhax. Or anything, really.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

So it looks like Emnn is staying Low 2-C, although his conceptual manipulation is getting removed. He only has it via Genie, who can kill beings that embody abstract concepts.