Ozriel vs Veldanava (God)

[Lycoris4812]

Ozriel

Ozriel is the Eighth Judge of the Abidan Court and it's first Judge of Destruction. Formally known as Ozmanthus Arelius prior to his ascension and his founding of House Arelius, his manifestation of a new absolute aspect of reality earning him the mantle of "Ozriel, the Reaper" and he was tasked...

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Veldanava (Light Novel)

"Ha-ha-ha! Well, because I'm not omnipotent. When I was born, all that existed was my will. It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it—a flawless existence, where all was one and one was all. I was the only thing in the world. Doesn't that sound boring to you?" Veldanava to Guy Crimson on...

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[Astral_Trinity439]

Seeing Ozriel's profile, it seems to be a stomp to be in Veldanava's favor in almost if not all aspects.

But I'm waiting for supporters to elaborate on how many layers Ozriel's hax has, because his profile page doesn't say so, at least until the point where I've read it.

 

[Robo432343]

Ozriel layer stomps

Willverse Authority Layers

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Lycoris4812]

Sorry about the tags, Astral wanted me to make this. I thought he said Rimuru.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Ozriel layer stomps

Willverse Authority Layers

vsbattles.fandom.com

can his layers work on something that has NEP2 to it?
I know he has NEP2 interaction from his profile, but is that in correspondence to these layers?

Also, what about Range? Pretty sure God outranges [via sheer size] Ozriel

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

can his layers work on something that has NEP2 to it?
I know he has NEP2 interaction from his profile, but is that in correspondence to these layers?

Also, what about Range? Pretty sure God outranges [via sheer size] Ozriel

Continuing from this, from what I've seen of his cosmology blog, Ozriel's Low 1-C comes from a baseline 5D construct, while God's size scales to countless such constructs.

 

[Robo432343]

can his layers work on something that has NEP2 to it?
I know he has NEP2 interaction from his profile, but is that in correspondence to these layers?

Also, what about Range? Pretty sure God outranges [via sheer size] Ozriel

the supporter would know @Sonoftanavast9

but i don't think Veldanava can interact with Nonduality type 2 and BDE type 2

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

the supporter would know @Sonoftanavast9

but i don't think Veldanava can interact with Nonduality type 2 and BDE type 2

That's interaction, not physiology

• Non-Physical Interaction (Nonexistent Physiology [All Natures - All Aspects [Logic, Causality, Time, Fate & Information] - Nonduality [Type 2] - Beyond-Dimensional Existence [Type 1] - Ozriel's Authority can interact with beings like Fiends of Chaos and even the Void itself)

"Non-Physical Interaction"
Its as useless as having Info type 2 against an opponent with Concept type 1 instead [and vice versa] xD

 

[Robo432343]

Continuing from this, from what I've seen of his cosmology blog, Ozriel's Low 1-C comes from a baseline 5D construct, while God's size scales to countless such constructs.

how is having large size going to stop CM 1 layers? because haxes like CM 1 does not really care about range

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

how is having large size going to stop CM 1 layers? because haxes like CM 1 does not really care about range

It's a range issue. Just like how a person can only affect, the 4 universe but can't affect the 5th one.

 

[Robo432343]

It's a range issue. Just like how a person can only affect, the 4 universe but can't affect the 5th one.

but CM 1 ignores range

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

how is having large size going to stop CM 1 layers? because haxes like CM 1 does not really care about range

Are those layers all based on NEP2 as well tho? Because that's what matters here

 

[Robo432343]

Are those layers all based on NEP2 as well tho? Because that's what matters here

yeah those layers work on NEP 2

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

but CM 1 ignores range

No, Cm1 ignores something like Dura, not range.

For example; Tensura's Magic is CM1, but normal fire magic [CM1 based] can only travel to a few meters or more.
Range and Dura are different things

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

yeah those layers work on NEP 2

From what the hax page says, Ozriel's NEP2 interaction comes from his own authority, while the layers in the layers page are based on authorities of different people that does not seem to include Ozriel [ctrl+f didn't give any result for the keyword "Ozriel"]

So how are you concluding that?

 

[Robo432343]

For example; Tensura's Magic is CM1, but normal fire magic [CM1 based] can only travel to a few meters or more.

this is not a good example because fire magic is something that is part of CM 1, its not CM 1 itself

CM 1 has the range to shape all of reality
Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

following

 

[Robo432343]

From what the hax page says, Ozriel's NEP2 interaction comes from his own authority, while the layers in the layers page are based on authorities of different people that does not seem to include Ozriel [ctrl+f didn't give any result for the keyword "Ozriel"]

huh
so just because you can't find the name Ozriel on the hax layer blog means he doesn't have the layered hax?
a lot of characters who have the layered hax don't have their names there lol
that blog is just supposed to show you how many layers of hax the verse has, its purpose isn't to tell you who has those layered hax
but you can tell anyway how many layers of hax Ozriel hax because he is listed as ascended being physiology

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

this is not a good example because fire magic is something that is part of CM 1, its not CM 1 itself

CM 1 has the range to shape all of reality
Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

I suppose yeah, but that'll have to depend on how large "Reality" is in-verse.
Besides, their CM1 is seemingly accepted before the tiering system revisions[?] so whether their case is applicable to what ultima said here or not would need to be evaluated.
The size of the construct that Ozriel can effect is baseline 5D, while Veldanava encompasses countless such ones.

so just because you can't find the name Ozriel on the hax layer blog, he doesn't have the layered hax?

Its because the tens of layers are based on "Authorities", and it seems each authority is from a different character.
So assuming that the other authorities don't have NEP interaction to all aspects, why would we assume that the NEP interaction would stack with authorities stacking? It's like saying just "because X authority > Y authority based on law manipulation, yet both also have unique effects other then LM, but those uniques would still be layered" when that's not the case

 

[Robo432343]

Its because the tens of layers are based on "Authorities", and it seems each authority is from a different character.
So assuming that the other authorities don't have NEP interaction to all aspects, why would we assume that the NEP interaction would stack with authorities stacking? It's like saying just "because X authority > Y authority based on law manipulation, yet both also have unique effects other then LM, but those uniques would still be layered" when that's not the case

Because Ozriel has ascended being physiology

The nature of Willpower and Authority as outlined in the Ascended Being Physiology Page, is at it's core various applications of Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation and Reality Warping that branch into various other abilities and depending on who's authority in question more specific stuff like Lindons Void Manipulation or Ziels Time Manipulation which will all possess a combined set of layers separate from the layers involving the basic Madra system (shortened to Layers of Authority for simplicity) but since Authority inherent affects the Soul Manipulation/Mind Manipulation, has Paralysis Inducement and Power Nullification properties these particular aspects of it will have their layers continued on from the already established 9 layers outlined above.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Because Ozriel has ascended being physiology

The nature of Willpower and Authority as outlined in the Ascended Being Physiology Page, is at it's core various applications of Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation and Reality Warping that branch into various other abilities and depending on who's authority in question more specific stuff like Lindons Void Manipulation or Ziels Time Manipulation which will all possess a combined set of layers separate from the layers involving the basic Madra system (shortened to Layers of Authority for simplicity)
but since Authority inherent affects the Soul Manipulation/Mind Manipulation, has Paralysis Inducement and Power Nullification properties these particular aspects of it will have their layers continued on from the already established 9 layers outlined above.

It seems you don't understand the layers here.
The Authority layers would only be to the abilities that all authorities share in common. And, to take an example, "Lindon" here, from what I've read of his profile, he doesn't have ANYTHING on NEP2 level, neither Nonexistence type 2 related[erasure or physiology] or interaction [nonexistence type 2] related, the only thing I found was apparently NEP1 CM1.

Which means the Conceptual Manipulation and stuff from authorities aren't layered on NEP2; they don't even have NEP2 to begin with....
It seems the NEP2 thing is unique to Ozriel only so... it's just baseline, his NEP2 related stuff precisely

 

[Robo432343]

It seems you don't understand the layers here.
The Authority layers would only be to the abilities that all authorities share in common. And, to take an example, "Lindon" here, from what I've read of his profile, he doesn't have ANYTHING on NEP2 level, neither Nonexistence type 2 related[erasure or physiology] or interaction [nonexistence type 2] related, the only thing I found was apparently NEP1 CM1.

Which means the Conceptual Manipulation and stuff from authorities aren't layered on NEP2; they don't even have NEP2 to begin with....
It seems the NEP2 thing is unique to Ozriel only so... it's just baseline, his NEP2 related stuff precisely

ok lets wait for the guy who made the hax layer blog

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

ok lets wait for the guy who made the hax layer blog

Alright

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Alright I'm here to clear somethings up

First things first Lindon's Void Hax - His Authority has interaction with Type 1, 2 & 3 - He's already shown using it to nullify the void based abilities of a lesser Fiend of Chaos (The Void being NEP Type 2)

Also I just want to clarify, which characters in verse are Low 1-C? Is it just vedanava or is anyone else Low 1-C

 

[Lycoris4812]

Alright I'm here to clear somethings up

First things first Lindon's Void Hax - His Authority has interaction with Type 1, 2 & 3 - He's already shown using it to nullify the void based abilities of a lesser Fiend of Chaos (The Void being NEP Type 2)

Also I just want to clarify, which characters in verse are Low 1-C? Is it just vedanava or is anyone else Low 1-C

Astral is asleep rn but I can answer some basic questions. Anyone with an Ultimate Skill or that can use Disintegration in tensura are Low 1-C. Theres around 25 characters that are Low 1-C. Veldanava is the creator god of the verse and made the cosmology which has a bunch of Low 1-C structures.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Alright I'm here to clear somethings up

First things first Lindon's Void Hax - His Authority has interaction with Type 1, 2 & 3 - He's already shown using it to nullify the void based abilities of a lesser Fiend of Chaos (The Void being NEP Type 2)

Also I just want to clarify, which characters in verse are Low 1-C? Is it just vedanava or is anyone else Low 1-C

Everyone is.well everyone has 5D hax. And like 99% of people who have profiles are low 1-C

Veldanava scales to countless 5D constructs

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also I just want to clarify, which characters in verse are Low 1-C? Is it just vedanava or is anyone else Low 1-C

almost everyone, around 30 characters that have pages on the wiki from the verse are Low 1-C.
Additionally, if you were wondering about the scaling chain; from the cosmology blog itself:

• Cycle of Time: 2-A
• Worlds: Low 1-C
• Dimensions: Higher at Low 1-C (Upscaling from containing multiple "Worlds")
• Labyrinth: Even higher at Low 1-C (Upscaling from regular dimensions; each floor upscales from the previous floor)
• Great Spirits: Far higher at Low 1-C (Upscaling from countless "Worlds")

Veldanava's God key encompasses all of this as well...

First things first Lindon's Void Hax - His Authority has interaction with Type 1, 2 & 3 - He's already shown using it to nullify the void based abilities of a lesser Fiend of Chaos (The Void being NEP Type 2)

That I know, but the main question is, is this interaction directly via his Conceptual Manipulation? [which it seems is what an authorities has as a common ability]
And if yes, is that conceptual manip [purely NEP2 based] something layered?

With that said, I think God key could still win against Ozriel via size; this is not the case where you have a 3D character with a 5D dura but still 3-D size [so Ozriel's ability can effect the whole of the character], but rather a case where the being itself is 5D in existence and in size, and at that, above baseline.
Meanwhile from what it seems from Ozriel's profile, he scales to "The Way" which seems to be baseline Low 1-C

 

[Tatsumi504]

What is Astral smoking?

NPI and layers are separate things unless you're talking about layered NPI (doesn't exist, just stuff more difficult to effect).
There's nothing like requiring specific layers that apply to NEP 2. If bruh has x layers and hs the NPI, the opponent without sufficient resistance is getting haxed.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

NPI and layers are separate things unless you're talking about layered NPI (doesn't exist, just stuff more difficult to effect).

I'm talking about layers of his conceptual manip[which seems to be capable of effecting NEP2] -_-

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'm talking about layers of his conceptual manip[which seems to be capable of effecting NEP2] -_-

Is his CM the only thing capable of interacting with NEP 2?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Is his CM the only thing capable of interacting with NEP 2?

It seems so, yeah. His NEP2 interaction is based on his authority, which is CM

 

[Tatsumi504]

It seems so, yeah. His NEP2 interaction is based on his authority, which is CM

I'm not sure then, he may or may not need specific layers for that as it may be a different mechanic

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I'm not sure then, he may or may not need specific layers for that as it may be a different mechanic

To be exact, his Cm1 was accepted before the standards were changed[these specific ones] so I don't know if the CM1 he has rn is just independent of the 5D construct that he scales to, yet still part of a bigger non 1-A construct, or just 1-A or Low 1-A to begin with.

So the main problem here is range.
Veldanava is also completely superior in speed even for his avatar key.
Meanwhile, his omnipresence is over a construct bigger then what Ozriel scales to in AP and Range

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

To be exact, his Cm1 was accepted before the standards were changed[these specific ones] so I don't know if the CM1 he has rn is just independent of the 5D construct that he scales to, yet still part of a bigger non 1-A construct, or just 1-A or Low 1-A to begin with.

There's a thread currently in motion for the upgraded to 1-A/Low 1-A stuff currency in motion it just need more staff approval since only 1 staff has approved (which is it's currently only staff engagement)

I'm waiting for that thread to be done before making some additions to his powers and abilities alongside changes to the layering & Physiology page

 

[Robo432343]

i dont think vel being omnipresent changes the fact that SBA assumes the fighting distance is 4km

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

i dont think vel being omnipresent changes the fact that SBA assumes the fighting distance is 4km

Omnipresent due to large size. Unless you literally nerf veldanava the distance isn’t possible

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

i dont think vel being omnipresent changes the fact that SBA assumes the fighting distance is 4km

Tell me, if you're inside a box, how do you define "being 4km away from the box"??
Unless you wanna say that we'll just "place him outside the whole of what veldanava is encompassing", even then, Ozriel would have to be able to perceive the sheer size of Veldanava to begin with, or at least have enough range to destroy it whole.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

There's a thread currently in motion for the upgraded to 1-A/Low 1-A stuff currency in motion it just need more staff approval since only 1 staff has approved (which is it's currently only staff engagement)

I'm waiting for that thread to be done before making some additions to his powers and abilities alongside changes to the layering & Physiology page

Hmm, alright