- 4,258
- 1,977
Note: I was asked to remake this thread so the staff can read it with more ease.
Historically on this site, Star Seeds from Sailor Moon were verse equalized to Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 and Information Manipulation Type 2. Recently a mod disagreed with that verse equalization on the basis of the argument that series did not refer to Star Seeds as concepts or information out right and removed the equalization.
However, that mod did not follow the protocol written on the wiki, and provided an alternative equalization. As it is written on the Metaphysical page:
"The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.
As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another."
Removing the equalization of Star Seeds as concepts and information on the basis that they are not called concepts and information is arbitrary and contradicts the wiki's policies. I am officially asking other mods to re-instate previous rating. Below I will recant the arguments that granted the equalization in first place.
The Galaxy Cauldron is a location at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy which star seeds are birthed from. It creates star seeds for everything in the cosmology, not just the galaxy or universe. Things that enter the cauldron are erased from existence, including all of history.
The word star is used both literally and metaphorically in Sailor Moon, stars are obviously called stars, but also are planets, moons, and celestial objects. People and individuals are called stars as well.
Sailor Crystals are special star seeds that give the Sailor Guardians their power.
Star Seeds are separate from souls and are located in the hearts of people.
The Galaxy Cauldron is the source of everything in the cosmology.
All possibilities, potential, beings, objects, power and abilities all originate from the galaxy cauldron. The galaxy cauldron creates star seeds which grow into or cause any of these things.
Star Seeds are described as such in the series:
To get more into this, The Japanese goes a little clearer:
星はみんな 「種」から 育つんだよ
星だけじゃない 大きさも 形態もその名も さまざまだけど
All stars grow from star seeds.
Not just stars, but all sizes, shapes and names.
(special thanks to user: Henshinintervention)
It's not just celestial objects like stars and planets. It's everything including all living things. Including all shapes, sizes, and names. This is not just for physical beings, but non-physical beings such as Metallia who is pure darkness, Death Phantom, whose true form is his resentment, ghosts, and Gods. The galaxy cauldron through star seeds give form to all things..
Star Seeds also give rise to ideals/abstractions. Sailor Senshi represent certain abstractions as part of their powers, which ultimately comes from their star seed.
https://imgur.com/a/incarnation-sNUIR3E
"Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."
Another example is:
When Hotaru's body, mind, and soul were destroyed, she was still able to awaken as Sailor Saturn. Previously while in her soul form, she referred to Sailor Saturn as her bigger self. Sailor Saturn comes from her Sailor Crystal/Star Seed. This shows the star seed is more fundamental than the body, mind, and soul and is unaffected by the destruction of the form.
From the Information Manipulation page:
"These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature."
"contain everything that makes a guardian is contained in side their crystal"
Star seeds contain all the information for a Sailor Senshi. This is why Sailor Moon required them to bring her friends back. This is why Sailor Galaxia was able corrupt the senshi as well as Queen Nehellenia was able to corrupt the Amazon Quartet. The Star Seeds are their source of power. By corrupting their star seeds, the form is corrupted.
Tally
Agree: (7 votes with 4 Staff) AsterReal, HenshinIntervention, Ednaxel2, Reiner04, LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X)
Agree with Conceptual Manipulation only: (2 votes with 1 staff) Dark_Soul20189, Theglassman12
Disagree: (2 Staff) Theglassman12, ActuallySpaceMan42 (Information)
Neutral:
Historically on this site, Star Seeds from Sailor Moon were verse equalized to Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 and Information Manipulation Type 2. Recently a mod disagreed with that verse equalization on the basis of the argument that series did not refer to Star Seeds as concepts or information out right and removed the equalization.
However, that mod did not follow the protocol written on the wiki, and provided an alternative equalization. As it is written on the Metaphysical page:
"The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.
As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another."
Removing the equalization of Star Seeds as concepts and information on the basis that they are not called concepts and information is arbitrary and contradicts the wiki's policies. I am officially asking other mods to re-instate previous rating. Below I will recant the arguments that granted the equalization in first place.
Necessary Background Information:
To understand this CRT, you will need to know some necessary background information of the Sailor Moon universe.The Galaxy Cauldron is a location at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy which star seeds are birthed from. It creates star seeds for everything in the cosmology, not just the galaxy or universe. Things that enter the cauldron are erased from existence, including all of history.
The word star is used both literally and metaphorically in Sailor Moon, stars are obviously called stars, but also are planets, moons, and celestial objects. People and individuals are called stars as well.
Sailor Crystals are special star seeds that give the Sailor Guardians their power.
Star Seeds are separate from souls and are located in the hearts of people.
Star Seeds as Concepts and Information:
The Galaxy Cauldron is the source of everything in the cosmology.
All possibilities, potential, beings, objects, power and abilities all originate from the galaxy cauldron. The galaxy cauldron creates star seeds which grow into or cause any of these things.
Star Seeds are described as such in the series:
To get more into this, The Japanese goes a little clearer:
星はみんな 「種」から 育つんだよ
星だけじゃない 大きさも 形態もその名も さまざまだけど
All stars grow from star seeds.
Not just stars, but all sizes, shapes and names.
(special thanks to user: Henshinintervention)
It's not just celestial objects like stars and planets. It's everything including all living things. Including all shapes, sizes, and names. This is not just for physical beings, but non-physical beings such as Metallia who is pure darkness, Death Phantom, whose true form is his resentment, ghosts, and Gods. The galaxy cauldron through star seeds give form to all things..
Star Seeds also give rise to ideals/abstractions. Sailor Senshi represent certain abstractions as part of their powers, which ultimately comes from their star seed.
https://imgur.com/a/incarnation-sNUIR3E
How it fits within the current standards:
Conceptual Manipulation
From the Conceptual Manipulation Page:"Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."
Starseeds are possibilities and the source of all life and all celestial objects, and the source of all abilities in the verse. They are the fundamental aspect of everything in the verse.
Even though star seeds pertain to the thing they form, they can be taken and used independently. The Sailor Animamates took the Sailor Crystals of dead Sailor Senshi and used it to power themselves. If star seeds were dependent on their forms, they would disappear when those forms are destroyed or erased. (Sailor Crystals are "super" star seeds for those who don't know)
When Tuxedo Kamen was pushed into the galaxy cauldron and his star seed was destroyed. Chibi-Usa, his daughter from the future, was immediately erased from history, meaning everything that was dependent on him ceased to exist.
When Tuxedo Kamen was erased in the past, his future self was still alive in the future and his daughter, Chibi-Usa, was unaffected by her father dying in the past
Another example is:
When Hotaru's body, mind, and soul were destroyed, she was still able to awaken as Sailor Saturn. Previously while in her soul form, she referred to Sailor Saturn as her bigger self. Sailor Saturn comes from her Sailor Crystal/Star Seed. This shows the star seed is more fundamental than the body, mind, and soul and is unaffected by the destruction of the form.
Information Manipulation
From the Information Manipulation page:
"These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature."
"contain everything that makes a guardian is contained in side their crystal"
Star seeds contain all the information for a Sailor Senshi. This is why Sailor Moon required them to bring her friends back. This is why Sailor Galaxia was able corrupt the senshi as well as Queen Nehellenia was able to corrupt the Amazon Quartet. The Star Seeds are their source of power. By corrupting their star seeds, the form is corrupted.
In Conclusion (TL;DR):
Star Seeds are the fundamental aspects of the verse and give shape and form to everything. They are synonymous with potential and possibilities and pre-date all matter and beings, including abstract, formless, nonexistent entitles. They contain all the information for a guardian, including their powers and the abstractions they represent.Tally
Agree: (7 votes with 4 Staff) AsterReal, HenshinIntervention, Ednaxel2, Reiner04, LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X)
Agree with Conceptual Manipulation only: (2 votes with 1 staff) Dark_Soul20189, Theglassman12
Disagree: (2 Staff) Theglassman12, ActuallySpaceMan42 (Information)
Neutral:
Last edited:
