On the possibility of allowing Pokemon Trainers to have profiles.

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Greetings. So me and Saikou were discussing the possibility of allowing Pokemon Trainers like Red, Gold, Brandon, Lucas etc to have profiles on the wiki. Unfortunately, the trainers would logically scale off of various Pokemon which goes against our rules. However, I feel like we should be able to make an exception for Pokemon Trainers personal Pokemon for a few reasons.

• These Pokemon are used by exceptionally skillful Trainers and thus logically these Pokemon should be very well trained. Far above the majority of their species in skill, strength and speed. They even mention this various times in the games.
  • "Its an Outlier" argument wouldn't really work here, as its claiming its an outlier for an entire species. It's not much of a stretch to assume a few, extremely strong members of a species are well above other members in numerous areas.
• A few trainers command Legendaries in their parties. The most famous example would be how N commands a Reshiram/Zekrom in his party while he battles you [Black]. Canonically, Black defeats Reshiram/Zekrom and thus should logically scale.
  • Again, the Outlier argument wouldn't really work here as Black's team is largely featless up until this point. I can't see how it be PIS either since, as I mentioned earlier, his team is very well trained, almost at the level of Pokemon Masters in terms of strength and skill.

That said, there are obviously limits. Such as.

• Not every Pokemon Trainer would scale. Obviously a random Fisherman with a Gyarados doesn't yet have the capabilities to annihilate major cities.
• No Trainer is to scale off of the Creation Trio, this is would cause far to many issues. For example, it would make the majority of Sinnoh Trainers Low 2-C, and thus be infinity superior to Trainers of other regions.
• I shouldn't have to say this, but obviously said trainers would have to scale off the feats of their own continuities. Ergo, no 8-A Pikachu or High 7-C Lucario for Red or Lucas to scale off of. Trainers of the games would have to scale off of Game Feats (Dex Entries, Move Descriptions, Lore, etc) and Anime/Manga trainers would scale off of Manga/Anime feats.

Of course, I'd be open for discussing regulations of their stats, if they're allowed to have pages to begin with.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I agree with the notion of highly trained Pokémon being stronger than "base" ones. and I also support the idea of trainer profiles.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I also agree. I think it would be great to see trainers like Cynthia and Steven Stone get some cred here.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I agree with this. Though would game dex entries scale to manga and anime? Since the feats listed in dex entries are considered something like general characteristics of the species, it seems unlikely that those characteristics would be different between the series.

Also, would we be allowed to do things like scale champions above the elite four and the elite four above the gym leaders and trainers in the tournament leagues, without them actually doing battle?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

One question I have. Red and Blue. There's two incarnations of both of them. Also, I don't agree on scaling them to their own continuities.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I think this looks generally okay.

But I call dibs on Lysandre.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I call bae Cynthia

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with allowing Trainer Profiles, and I call Giovanni.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can i do Lorelei (Including her manga appearance)? Also, would someone be able to calc her Dewgong freezing a river and a large wave?

Edit: Cloyster, not Dewgong

 

[Dark649]

I also agree with this, someone should make a composite Archie page, since he has a lot of feats (especially as Guile Hideout).

 

[Cropfist]

Wait, we're going to scale the trainer's Pokemon to legendaries?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Actually, I just realized.

Would it be okay to scale the Elite Four/Champion off of the Gym Leaders of the Region?

 

[SomebodyData]

These are mine: Lance (Composite) , Red, and Yellow (Both PKMN Adv)

They should only scale to their own continuities tho

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

YeH, considering they go by power increase. Bruno would be > Misty.

 

[Cropfist]

Wait, we're going to scale the trainer's Pokemon to legendaries?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Wait, we're going to scale the trainer's Pokemon to legendaries?

Considering that Trainers are shown beating Legendaries quite a few times, I can't see why they wouldn't.

I'm not quite sure how to handle Gym Leaders, though. I guess Kanto Gym leaders could get 3 tabs (Gen 1, Gen 2 and HGSSS Rematch).

For characters with multiple continuities, I guess multiple profiles like Red (Games), Red (Manga) and Red (Anime) might work, since they'd all have different keys regardless.

 

[Cropfist]

They wouldn't because this would create extreme issues with consistency, and it would make no sense for any clearly weaker Pokemon to match them if they were really on par with legendaries.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I already addressed that in the OP. These are extremely well trained Pokemon used by extremely skillful trainers. They're obviously a huge cut above the rest of their species.

 

[Cropfist]

Their training is irrelevant. The fact is, if we scale them to the legendaries any other Pokemo that matches or takes a hit from them would also have to be scaled to that, and in turn it would start to make the stats become extremely unrealistic.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm gonna have to side with Crop on that. Especially considering how Thu-Fi-Zer is a thing, and were taken on by an pre Pokemon League Red, Blue, and Green.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Their training is irrelevant. The fact is, if we scale them to the legendaries any other Pokemo that matches or takes a hit from them would also have to be scaled to that, and in turn it would start to make the stats become extremely unrealistic.

Most of that would be PIS or gameplay mechanics, though. Only ones who would scale are the other skillful trainers (Elite Four, Gym Leaders, Rivals, Villains, etc). How is the training irrelevant? It assumes that every Pokemon in an entire species caps at some arbitrary value.

Plus, I always thought it was a team effort to take down a single legendary, so we'd may have to divide the legendaries value by 6.

 

[Cropfist]

It's just as easy to brand the trainer fighting the legendary as PIS too, but that option is more likely seeing as random wild and Gym Leader Pokemon canonicaly match them in battle.

I would be fine with scaling Red's Mega Charizard to Mewtwo seeing as it's a stronger form and has almost no feats to begin with. I would not be fine with scaling Ash's Charizard to Articuno just because "it's well trained", and has been matched by weaker mons.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Powerscaling is possible but you'd need some kind of indication that it would be viable and even then it should be taken with a grain of salt; Pokemon is just not that kind of media. With hundreds of Pokemon to portray, they care very little for consistency. More likely this will just lead to over exaggerated results.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, if no one agrees with Legendary Scaling, then I guess I'll drop that. Scaling to normal mons is still fine, though, correct?

 

[Cropfist]

Case-by-case basis.

 

[Cropfist]

So, trainer profiles can be made?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, we got the blessings of Cal and TMR so I guess we can. Scaling them is going to be a bit funky though (Early game Gold has a Town feat, while early game Red is maybe City Block-ish).

How do you think we should handle teams? Red, Brandon/May, Gary etc shouldn't be to hard, but what about Gold? Use his manga team?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I call Lusamine in about a week...

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

For the sake of not spoiling it for others, could you wait til the game gets released? Sorry.

Anyway, after dinner I'll get to work on Red and Blue.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We'll have to rename the others category to humans or trainers.

 

[SomebodyData]

Still call dibs on Lance (Composite), Red and Yellow (PKMN Special)

 

[RadicalMrR]

Well from my understanding they gave Red his team based on pokemon that had to be obtained through some special way.

Snorlax blocked your path, Lapras was given to you same with the starters and Pikachu and Eevee.

So we can go from there as well as maybe using generation since it seems kinda canon to the games.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

For the sake of not spoiling it for others, could you wait til the game gets released? Sorry.
Anyway, after dinner I'll get to work on Red and Blue.

Well I did say in about a week.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hey guys, i was just looking around and saw that Shauntal's Chandelure fought against one of the Forces of Nature (Tornadus, Thundurus, or Landorus, dont know which one). Would this only scale to here Chandelure? And would we only include it in her profile or should it be included on Chandelure's profile as well?

 

[SomebodyData]

I don;t think this is the thread for that @Weekly, Try the https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/490395 (Shameless self advertisement)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh, whoops, sorry

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Sorry if I haven't been following, but what do we do with people who have Legendaries in their team, like the Frontier Brain?