Ninjago Update/Fixing part 5

[Lloydblitzed]

Mainly just forms addition and a potential Tiering change for DR Lloyd

Spoiler: Insect Form Key (Kai)

In Kai's Monstrous Journey, Kai received a massive amp from a monster called Fuzz, and all his feats/abilities should be listed in a new key called "Insect Form"

• Empowerment: His insect form is stated to be a power boost, which he obtains throught Fuzz
• Transformation: As shown here

For feats, he demolishes Bolsen once he goes at FP, and Bolsen is shown superior to Base Kai via this and this
He also managed to resist and break off Fuzz's Mind Control, which should grant his Dragon Rising key Mind Manipulation (1 Layer) resistance, as all Elemental Masters already resist Mind Manip to a baseline (which was already accepted in the Elemental Powers Page)

Mind and Morality Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Types 1 & 2), Corruption (Both Types), Soul Manipulation & Perception Manipulation (The Ninja can stay on the Dark Island for an extended period of time and negate the effects of Dark Matter, with Dark Matter being everywhere on the Dark Island and the Dark Island being corruption itself. Dark Matter poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit, even changing their perception of time.

Spoiler: Shatterspin key (Garmadon)

Garmadon should gain a Shatterspin key due to learning Shatterspin. This also means these should apply to the key:

He will become "4-C, High 4-C with Shatterspin" due to this:

The Gong of Shattering boost one's power 10x, which have been implied to also affect Shatterspin users

Self Explanatory

Shatterspin Mastery

He should be rated faster than the Lycan King, and superior to the Children of the Wolves

He is also consistanly stated to be capable of ending the Serpentine War, a war the human side was losing at that point of time (And those same humans being also having the help of a whole group of Elemental Masters), which place him above all of them

Spoiler: High 4-C Lloyd?

Scale by @TheOrangeGuy09

DR Lloyd is consistanly shown to be able to perform better than the Ninja team against Shatterspin users (High 4-C beings), even while weakened/overtired around the time he fought Cinder. This should make sense considering he is stated to be the strongest Ninja many times as well (more times here too). So I propose to rate Lloyd to "at most High 4-C (preferably straight up High 4-C)" and scale everyone who scale to Lloyd from there

Spoiler: Zane FTL calc addition

Forgot to initially add but just add this calc to Zane's profile which would scale to anyone rel to him in reactions

Agree: @FinePoint (Everything) @Ultimate-Rex1 @DarkDragonMedeus (First 2 points, Neutral on 3rd one) @Imaginym (same as Finepoint)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[FinePoint]

First two things seem fine.

The third thing I'd want to hear from some more knowledgeable members on before approving.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

First two things seem fine.

The third thing I'd want to hear from some more knowledgeable members on before approving.

Lloydblitzed is one of knowledgeable members (If not the best expert at Ninjago)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I agreed with OP

 

[Lloydblitzed]

All counted

 

[PedjaTarzan]

wheres is high 4-C from? calcs or?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

wheres is high 4-C from? calcs or?

Nah, its upscaling from 10x Star lvl which comes from Wu and the GWs scaling (the tier most people scale to besides the god tiers)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Nah, its upscaling from 10x Star lvl which comes from Wu and the GWs scaling (the tier most people scale to besides the god tiers)

Can you elaborate? On that?

And why are you proposing an "at most" value

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

First two things seem fine.

The third thing I'd want to hear from some more knowledgeable members on before approving.

Yeah, this is right. Lloyd is consistently stated to be stronger than the four Ninjas altogether, and he is the only one who can actually fight Shatterspin users without using an amp himself.

Can you elaborate? On that?

Just check the profiles.

And why are you proposing an "at most" value

Tbf, you’re kind of right on that. He was inferior to Shatterspin Cinder but he was weakened, and he was fighting on par otherwise. Probably straight up High 4-C should work.

I agree with everything overall.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Just check the profiles.

All I can find is Wu creating a dimension which scales to 1.1184707e+42 J.
High 4-C starts at 3.182e42 J which is a 2.84x difference. Upscaling is only generally allowed with a 1.2ish times difference and even then it needs a clearly huge gap in power.

So I'm specifically asking

1. What value are we upscaling from?
2. What feat suggests a difference so massive it suggests an upscale like that?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First 2 points look good, neutral about the 3rd for now.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

All I can find is Wu creating a dimension which scales to 1.1184707e+42 J.
High 4-C starts at 3.182e42 J which is a 2.84x difference. Upscaling is only generally allowed with a 1.2ish times difference and even then it needs a clearly huge gap in power.

So I'm specifically asking

1. What value are we upscaling from?
2. What feat suggests a difference so massive it suggests an upscale like that?

If you look at the Cinder profile (which is a justification for Lloyd’s High 4-C), you’ll see that Cinder with Shatterspin is High 4-C. This is due to Shatterspin being 10x amp. Even lowest value of 4-C multiplied by 10 is High 4-C.

I would have dropped the scans instead of leading to the profiles, but my WIFI is genuinely so bad right now that it will take too long.

 

[DavidTPPM]

If you look at the Cinder profile (which is a justification for Lloyd’s High 4-C), you’ll see that Cinder with Shatterspin is High 4-C. This is due to Shatterspin being 10x amp. Even lowest value of 4-C multiplied by 10 is High 4-C.

Okay, that's fine then

I would have dropped the scans instead of leading to the profiles, but my WIFI is genuinely so bad right now that it will take too long.

No biggie, I appreciate the explanation either way

 

[FinePoint]

Yeah, this is right. Lloyd is consistently stated to be stronger than the four Ninjas altogether, and he is the only one who can actually fight Shatterspin users without using an amp himself.

Alright. It's probably fine then.

Lloydblitzed is one of knowledgeable members (If not the best expert at Ninjago)

I know, but it's good practice to have more than one knowledgeable member corroborate information if possible.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Agree

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Alright. It's probably fine then.

Do you think he should be straight up High 4-C given this?

Tbf, you’re kind of right on that. He was inferior to Shatterspin Cinder but he was weakened, and he was fighting on par otherwise. Probably straight up High 4-C should work.

Also

First 2 points look good, neutral about the 3rd for now.

Do you change your mind given that FinePoint agrees?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

First 2 points look good, neutral about the 3rd for now.

Alright. It's probably fine then.

I added a 4th point (just an accepted calc addition)
Do you agree to it asw?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

bump

 

[YmTheSuper]

Looks good, agree. (Although I'd like to know who else would scale to High 4-C from Lloyd)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Although I'd like to know who else would scale to High 4-C from Lloyd

I will have a separate CRT on it…

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Alright. It's probably fine then.

I know, but it's good practice to have more than one knowledgeable member corroborate information if possible.

First 2 points look good, neutral about the 3rd for now.

Would you agree to a "High 4-C" straight up due to pulling some of these feats while weakened?

 

[FinePoint]

Would you agree to a "High 4-C" straight up due to pulling some of these feats while weakened?

Are the feats themselves not High 4-C regardless?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Are the feats themselves not High 4-C regardless?

Yeah they are, that's why I said its better to just put "High 4-C" instead of "at most High 4-C" (also, do u agree to the calc addition?)

 

[FinePoint]

Yeah they are, that's why I said its better to just put "High 4-C" instead of "at most High 4-C" (also, do u agree to the calc addition?)

Yeah, that's probably fine then.

What calc addition?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What calc addition?

Spoiler: Zane FTL calc addition

Forgot to initially add but just add this calc to Zane's profile which would scale to anyone rel to him in reactions

 

[FinePoint]

Forgot to initially add but just add this calc to Zane's profile which would scale to anyone rel to him in reactions

Seems fine.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Seems fine.

alr thx

 

[Imaginym]

I was asked to comment here.
Having read the text of the thread, I think that FinePoint's established stances seem reasonable here & that the propositions seem simple enough, so I tentatively agree to them.
If any knowledgeable members, staff or other users have something relevant they feel they should bring up, such as a point of contentious, please do so.

Also, I currently have a very small amount of experience with this series, on which progress may slowly be made.
As a result, I am slightly averse to spoilers for this series. I wish for users to NOT alter their CRT propositions for my sake, however, but just to express that I am apprehensive about viewing CRTs for this series. If they contain major spoilers, I would like warning if I am asked to evaluate revisions for this. Thank you very much sorry, for any bother or inconvenience.

I hope this helps, & best wishes, all!