Ninjago DR S3 Update (Adding feats)

[Lloydblitzed]

So DR S3 has been out for a few days, and some characters needs new keys for their feats

Spoiler: Rox: New Abilities + Key

Rox should get a Djinn Artifact key, and obtain all the Djinn Prince abilities of Nadakhan due to possessing the powers of Arrakore, who is also a Djinn. In addition to that, she should get the following:
Upscaling from Arrakore:
Life Manipulation (Can revive a flower)
Paralysis Inducement (Can paralyze Rox feets to the floor. Could stop Nya, Sora and Riyu from moving)
Electricity Manipulation (Could summon Lightning on a dragonian)
Density Manipulation (Made a Dragonian as light as a feather)
Summoning (Summoned a rubber ball around a Dragonian)
Bone Manipulation (Transformed a Dragonian's bones into jelly)
Restoration: (Could restore a Prismatic Blade)
Paralysis Negation (Could cancel out her paralysis spell)
Body Control (Forced Nya, Sora and Riyu to say that the Forbidden 5 were their superior in every way)
Body Puppetery (Was about to force the Ninjas to jump off a cliff. Forced the Ninjas to bow down to her)
Note: As Nadakhan is also a Djinn, he also gets the abilities cited above


Rox should also get new abilities for her base self:
Abilities + Resistances:
Telekinesis (As shown here)
Paralysis Inducement Negation: Can negate Arrokore's paralysis spell with Shatterspin (This one should actually scale to all Shatterspin users)

Spoiler: New DR S3 Key

As shown in this fight, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one and many other similar instance, the Forbidden Five, the Ninjas, Frak and Ras and Jay to each other or above another one with their respective feats
Lloyd, Nokt, Zane, Nya, Frak, Sora and Arin should all get a "Post Tournament of the Source" key for their S3 feats. They should also get a Prismatic Blade as optional equipement, which would grant NPI, Extrasensory Perception (1 layer) and Soul Manipulation as the swords are made of Soul Energy and lets the user harm spirits and see invisible souls. Arin needed to use Prismatic Blade to see the Soul Suckers while being able to see Sprite who is invisible to others, which should make the Perception thing layered
Morro should get a Dragon Rising key which includes all of his feats against the Soul Suckers (Arin also has feats against them so he should scale too)
Ras should get a new Post Tournament of the Source key for his S3 feats and get layered NPI (1 layer) for interacting with the Spirit Temple, something Elemental Masters couldn't do
Ghosts should gain Extrasensory Perception due to not needing a Prismatic blade to see invisible souls
Jay should get a new Rogue key for his S3 feats

Spoiler: Prime Empire small precision

WOG stated that the Prime Empire NPC had video game energy, which should be added under the Info Type 2 resistances justification for those who scale to them by interacting with them

Spoiler: Intelligence stuff

Ninjas should all be comparable to each other in skills, which means they should upscale to Zane and Jay who could defeat and outsmart Reflectra, who knows/can counter every single one of the Ninjas fighting moves to that point as well as recreating her own Spinjitzu via tech alone, as technique that took years of learning for Wu and Garmadon to fully master). This should grant all of these character Extrordinary Genius ratings in combat intelligence)

Agree: @TheOrangeGuy09 @YmTheSuper @Sir_Ovens @FinePoint (Thinks PE stuff should be NPI. Agree on everything else) @DarkDragonMedeus (Same as Finepoint)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Paralysis Inducement Negation: Can negate Arrokore's paralysis spell with Shatterspin

It should be add to Shatterspin page

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It should be add to Shatterspin page

Yeah true

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Yeah true

Make it within the list of abilities of the Shatterspin

 

[YmTheSuper]

Agreed, this makes sense. Although The extrasensory perception for the ghosts should also be layered.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It should be specified that Rox has only Nadakhan’s base abilities.
And Morro should be at most 4-C in DR, since he is weaker than even Arin and has lost an element, thus becoming weaker than before.
I’m not sure about how much DR Season 3 is needed as a separate key for Ninjas.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It should be specified that Rox has only Nadakhan’s base abilities.
And Morro should be at most 4-C in DR, since he is weaker than even Arin and has lost an element, thus becoming weaker than before.

Morro in S5 has no feats that suggest he's on the lvl of Arin. Don't see why he should be at most

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Morro in S5 has no feats that suggest he's on the lvl of Arin

Arin has no EP and has been around for much less years than Morro with powers or any other Ninjas.
And we clearly saw powerless Morro being inferior to Arin in DR, and he should be weaker due to loss of EP. We use this as an argument in the EP page for UES, that losing power makes Elemental Masters much weaker. It’s also common sense.

Also:

I’m not sure about how much DR Season 3 is needed as a separate key for Ninjas.

Can’t we just merge it with the regular DR key?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I’m not sure about how much DR Season 3 is needed as a separate key for Ninjas.

Most Ninjas has TOS keys where they got way more abilities and hax so they do need a new key

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Most Ninjas has TOS keys where they got way more abilities and hax so they do need a new key

We don’t make new key for post Season 4 Kai because he has Staff of Elements key. I feel that we should just do two keys: “Dragons Rising Base” and “Tournament of Sources”.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Arin has no EP and has been around for much less years than Morro with powers or any other Ninjas.

Less experience should not automatically lead to being weaker

And we clearly saw powerless Morro being inferior to Arin in DR, and he should be weaker due to loss of EP. We use this as an argument in the EP page for UES, that losing power makes Elemental Masters much weaker. It’s also common sense.

The thing is that he implied to have fought the Soul Suckers for years, so I don't think Morro should become at most given that he didn't spend those years doing nothing and had low-mid relativity to Arin. At best it would imply that DR Morro with powers would be stronger than his DR self without powers

Can’t we just merge it with the regular DR key?

ig

 

[YmTheSuper]

Also btw I think that the scans hosted in youtube should be moved to a different site like imgur since I imagine they will eventually get removed.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Less experience should not automatically lead to being weaker

The thing is that he implied to have fought the Soul Suckers for years, so I don't think Morro should become at most given that he didn't spend those years doing nothing and had low-mid relativity to Arin.

If we go by “constant fighting and training = stronger”, then Morro worked hard to become the Green Ninja for all 40 years while having power. Arin, on the other hand, was pretty much weak in the beginning of Dragons Rising Season 1 and had much less time to grow in power.
Also, this argument really works only for Elemental Masters, while neither Morro (after final death) and Arin are.

DR Morro with powers

There is no such character for now

ig

Alright

Also btw I think that the scans hosted in youtube should be moved to a different site like imgur since I imagine they will eventually get removed.

They are pretty short so most likely they shouldn’t be removed, but safer is better I guess.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If we go by “constant fighting and training = stronger”, then Morro worked hard to become the Green Ninja for all 40 years while having power. Arin, on the other hand, was pretty much weak in the beginning of Dragons Rising Season 1 and had much less time to grow in power.

I can say the same about the Ninjas or other characters matching EMs with a couple to thousands of years difference in experience. And Arin has good feats in DR S2 which puts him above the lvls of Morro

Also, this argument really works only for Elemental Masters, while neither Morro (after final death) and Arin are.

Except Morro after death has better feats than before

There is no such character for now

I meant that Morro rn should be way stronger than his past self if he would recieve his powers

Alright

They are pretty short so most likely they shouldn’t be removed, but safer is better I guess.

I got all the episodes on my PC so I can make the feats into unlisted YT vids or Imgur anytime

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I can say the same about the Ninjas or other characters matching EMs with a couple to thousands of years difference in experience.

Like who. Also this just proves that EMs do not become insanely stronger over time.

And Arin has good feats in DR S2 which puts him above the lvls of Morro

Except Morro after death has better feats than before

Like what

I meant that Morro rn should be way stronger than his past self if he would recieve his powers

OK

I got all the episodes on my PC so I can make the feats into unlisted YT vids or Imgur anytime

Yuh, so this shouldn't be an issue

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Like who. Also this just proves that EMs do not become insanely stronger over time.

Or that Arin has good AD. Kinda like Team 7 characters becoming insanely strong and surpassing people with years of experience in Naruto

Like what

The reletivity to Arin, as the Spirit Monster were making Arin struggle as well, and Arin should upscale to the Wolf Mask Warriors who are comparable to the DR Ninjas who are above the S5 cast, as well as him wisthanding a blow from all the Ninjas with his Spinjitzu

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Or that Arin has good AD.

He does not even have Accelerated Development accepted? And he shouldn’t, he is not EM. He has no reason to have AD, and even less to have it as good or better than others.

Kinda like Team 7 characters becoming insanely strong and surpassing people with years of experience in Naruto

Naruto is not really Ninjago

The reletivity to Arin, as the Spirit Monster were making Arin struggle as well, and Arin should upscale to the Wolf Mask Warriors who are comparable to the DR Ninjas who are above the S5 cast, as well as him wisthanding a blow from all the Ninjas with his Spinjitzu

This is all still assuming that DR is automatically superior to Season 5 which is what I am arguing against. You can’t use what you are defending as a proof, you know.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He does not even have Accelerated Development accepted? And he shouldn’t, he is not EM. He has no reason to have AD, and even less to have it as good or better than others.

Arin has trained for a full year between DR S1 and DR S2, and has taught himself Spinjitzu by looking at the Ninjas moves. Again, I don't see why more experience = stronger in this situation. Morro in S5 that backs up scaling to anyone in the Ninja team

This is all still assuming that DR is automatically superior to Season 5 which is what I am arguing against.

Arin can fight Jay. Ninjas have shown reletivity to Lloyd in S10 era, and they should at least upscale from S8 Lloyd, who is superior to Oni Mask Mr E who is 2x stronger than his base who is comparable to Zane. Lloyd prior to S8 was already getting stronger as well. DR Ninjas should easily be above S5 cast, and everyone having scaling to them should be as well.

You can’t use what you are defending as a proof, you know.

What? Im just proving Arin is above S5 Morro, and that DR Morro should also upscale to that with feats

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Arin has trained for a full year between DR S1 and DR S2, and has taught himself Spinjitzu by looking at the Ninjas moves.

I don’t think this qualifies for AD. And Morro has even better feat: he perfected Airjitzu scroll by just looking at it, while Ninjas had to train.

Again, I don't see why more experience = stronger in this situation. Morro in S5 that backs up scaling to anyone in the Ninja team

This is just common sense here. Unless you want to say that Morro’s years of fighting and training as an EM <<< powerless Arin’s 1 years training. This appears contradictory.

Arin can fight Jay.

Nice.

Ninjas have shown reletivity to Lloyd in S10 era

This is not a relativity. This is a friendly battle that harmed no-one. Unless you wanna say that Monk is the most tankiest thing to walk on the face of Ninjago. And it would be weird that Ninjas can harm each other if their durability is massively above their AP.

and they should at least upscale from S8 Lloyd, who is superior to Oni Mask Mr E who is 2x stronger than his base who is comparable to Zane. Lloyd prior to S8 was already getting stronger as well.

That’s cool: however, Lloyd was always shown as superior to regular Ninjas, so there is no contradiction. All Ninjas sucked to Mr. E while Lloyd one-shotted him. Cole stated that even together they won’t beat Green Ninja. He is supposed to be rising over the other Ninjas.

He is a chosen one for a reason.

What? Im just proving Arin is above S5 Morro, and that DR Morro should also upscale to that with feats

You are using the assumption that DR is automatically stronger than older seasons to prove it though, the very thing we are debating over. It’s like using 2+2=5 to prove 2+2=5.


Anyways I bet this is pointless since staff will most likely not look into this, and all it really adds is “At most”, while this can take us debating forever. I will change it in my own CRT, possibly along with other big downgrades, or maybe separately. The time will tell.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I don’t think this qualifies for AD. And Morro has even better feat: he perfected Airjitzu scroll by just looking at it, while Ninjas had to train.

Arin within a season went from bottom of the team to Ninja lvl. It is proof of AD

This is just common sense here. Unless you want to say that Morro’s years of fighting and training as an EM <<< powerless Arin’s 1 years training. This appears contradictory.

No its not. Ur just assuming Morro is stronger via experience, when 0 feats backs it up

That’s cool: however, Lloyd was always shown as superior to regular Ninjas, so there is no contradiction. All Ninjas sucked to Mr. E while Lloyd one-shotted him. Cole stated that even together they won’t beat Green Ninja. He is supposed to be rising over the other Ninjas.


He is a chosen one for a reason.

That was S8 weaker Ninjas with less training than their S10 selves, and even Zane was able to outmatch Mr E later on. The Ninjas in DR did a similar feat

You are using the assumption that DR is automatically stronger than older seasons to prove it though, the very thing we are debating over. It’s like using 2+2=5 to prove 2+2=5.

No Im not. I litterally proved that DR characters are better due to better feats

Anyways I bet this is pointless since staff will most likely not look into this, and all it really adds is “At most”,

It doesn't add up to "at most" at all

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Stuff

Anyways I bet this is pointless since staff will most likely not look into this, and all it really adds is “At most”, while this can take us debating forever. I will change it in my own CRT, possibly along with other big downgrades, or maybe separately. The time will tell.

 

[AigerTheKing]

I agree to the proposed change, althought I don't see why you should skip the Morro subject to another CRT as its on topic to the thread

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree to the proposed change, althought I don't see why you should skip the Morro subject to another CRT as its on topic to the thread

Because this would fit more into another CRT of mine for reasons above. And as I said, it’s a relatively minor issue on the website to start pages-long debate here, and staff will likely skip it anyways.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Because this would fit more into another CRT of mine for reasons above. And as I said, it’s a relatively minor issue on the website to start pages-long debate here, and staff will likely skip it anyways.

I don't understand why only elemental masters are allowed to grow stronger in the show according to you

 

[AigerTheKing]

This is just common sense here. Unless you want to say that Morro’s years of fighting and training as an EM <<< powerless Arin’s 1 years training. This appears contradictory.

Hum...Overlord >>>>>>>>>> USM Lloyd because he had less than a year of experience while Overlord had centuries

This is not a relativity. This is a friendly battle that harmed no-one.

The Ninjas eventually catches up to Lloyd in Attack Potency

Unless you wanna say that Monk is the most tankiest thing to walk on the face of Ninjago. And it would be weird that Ninjas can harm each other if their durability is massively above their AP.

That would only be an outlier to the Monk and no one else.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I don't understand why only elemental masters are allowed to grow stronger in the show according to you

I’m not saying that, I’m saying that AD is not on Arin’s profile! This wiki goes by whatever is accepted here.

Hum...Overlord >>>>>>>>>> USM Lloyd because he had less than a year of experience while Overlord had centuries

USM was amped from Green Power to Golden Power, the prophecy said it it’s the way, so false equivalence.
And will you two stop purposefully misinterpreting my argument to “experience = stronger” by the way? Would be appreciated.

That would only be an outlier to the Monk and no one else.

Oh, that’s why they completely tank and no cell their combined AP yet can harm each other with only one AP, much lesser AP!

Anyways not entertaining this because of this:

Because this would fit more into another CRT of mine for reasons above. And as I said, it’s a relatively minor issue on the website to start pages-long debate here, and staff will likely skip it anyways.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Updated the OP

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Scans in the OP check out. Didn't read the thread tho so Idk what's being discussed.

I approve everything in the OP though.

 

[FinePoint]

Spoiler: Reasoning

Rox should get a Djinn Artifact key, and obtain all the Djinn Prince abilities of Nadakhan due to possessing the powers of Arrakore, who is also a Djinn. In addition to that, she should get the following:
Upscaling from Arrakore:
Life Manipulation (Can revive a flower)

Sure.

Paralysis Inducement (Can paralyze Rox feets to the floor. Could stop Nya, Sora and Riyu from moving)

Yerp.

Electricity Manipulation (Could summon Lightning on a dragonian)

Yerp.

Density Manipulation (Made a Dragonian as light as a feather)

Yerp.

Summoning and Forcefield Creation (Summoned a rubber ball around a Dragonian)

I feel like we're stretching the definition of a forcefield here.
He did indeed summon a rubber ball, but I wouldn't call that a forcefield.

That said, the page apparently never actually defines what a forcefield is, so I might just have to make a different thread to correct that.

With a lack of our own definition, Oxford defines it as "an invisible barrier of exerted strength or impetus."
This rubber ball is neither invisible nor made of force, so...

Bone Manipulation (Transformed a Dragonian's bones into jelly)

Yerp.

Restoration: (Could restore a Prismatic Blade)

Yerp.

Paralysis Negation (Could cancel out her paralysis spell)

Sure.

Body Control (Forced Nya, Sora and Riyu to say that the Forbidden 5 were their superior in every way)
Body Puppetery (Was about to force the Ninjas to jump off a cliff. Forced the Ninjas to bow down to her)
Note: As Nadakhan is also a Djinn, he also gets the abilities cited above

Yerp.

Rox should also get new abilities for her base self:
Abilities + Resistances:
Telekinesis (As shown here)
Paralysis Inducement Negation: Can negate Arrokore's paralysis spell with Shatterspin (This one should actually scale to all Shatterspin users)

Yerp.

As shown in this fight, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one and many other similar instance, the Forbidden Five, the Ninjas, Frak and Ras and Jay to each other or above another one with their respective feats

Sure.

Lloyd, Nokt, Zane, Nya, Frak, Sora and Arin should all get a "Post Tournament of the Source" key for their S3 feats. They should also get a Prismatic Blade as optional equipement, which would grant NPI, Extrasensory Perception (1 layer) and Soul Manipulation as the swords are made of Soul Energy and lets the user harm spirits and see invisible souls. Arin needed to use Prismatic Blade to see the Soul Suckers while being able to see Sprite who is invisible to others, which should make the Perception thing layered

Seems good.

Morro should get a Dragon Rising key which includes all of his feats against the Soul Suckers (Arin also has feats against them so he should scale too)
Ras should get a new Post Tournament of the Source key for his S3 feats

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know where exactly keys should be separated, but I don't see anything clearly wrong about this.

and get layered NPI (1 layer) for interacting with the Spirit Temple, something Elemental Masters couldn't do

Seems good.

Ghosts should gain Extrasensory Perception due to not needing a Prismatic blade to see invisible souls

Sure.

Jay should get a new Rogue key for his S3 feats

No idea if this is ideal, but again, don't have any objections either.

WOG stated that the Prime Empire NPC had video game energy, which should be added under the Info Type 2 resistances justification for those who scale to them by interacting with them

What the FRICK is "video game energy" and what does it have to do with Info Type 2?
I'm missing context here.

Ninjas should all be comparable to each other in skills, which means they should upscale to Zane and Jay who could defeat and outsmart Reflectra, who knows/can counter every single one of the Ninjas fighting moves to that point as well as recreating her own Spinjitzu via tech alone, as technique that took years of learning for Wu and Garmadon to fully master). This should grant all of these character Extrordinary Genius ratings in combat intelligence)

I don't really see justification for Extraordinary Genius here.
Then again, the intelligence section labels are supplementary anyway.

So: These justifications are good things to list regardless, but I lean towards regular Genius here.

In summary, I agree with everything, except:
Forcefield creation should be removed.
I need more context for what video game energy is.
I think Genius fits better than Extraordinary Genius.

And no, I don't know what sort of formatting abomination my message became when I tried to spoiler my reasoning.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In summary, I agree with everything, except:
Forcefield creation should be removed.

Fair

I need more context for what video game energy is.

Energy from a video game world more complex than the Digiverse, who is a universal sized virtual world. The Wack Rats are litterally beings created in the video game that came to Ninjago throught a portal

I think Genius fits better than Extraordinary Genius.

Well Spinjitzu is a fighting technique that can exploit and channel Elemental Powers which surpass the real world's upper human limits

 

[FinePoint]

Fair

I started a staff thread about it.

Energy from a video game world more complex than the Digiverse, who is a universal sized virtual world. The Wack Rats are litterally beings created in the video game that came to Ninjago throught a portal

So the argument is that anyone who interacts with them must have Type 2 Information Manipulation?

Well Spinjitzu is a fighting technique that can exploit and channel Elemental Powers which surpass the real world's upper human limits

But aren't elemental powers extremely common in this universe?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So the argument is that anyone who interacts with them must have Type 2 Information Manipulation?

Ye

But aren't elemental powers extremely common in this universe?

The average human in Ninjago only has access to our today world's tech, not Elemental Masters. There only a few dozens of them

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I started a staff thread about it.

oh

 

[FinePoint]

Ye

I guess: is there consistent evidence that they function or exist as information, or do they just happen to have been created in this world and now function like normal things?

The average human in Ninjago only has access to our today world's tech, not Elemental Masters. There only a few dozens of them

Honestly, I don't know enough to say.
You can consider me neutral on it.

Like I said, the justifications listed are far more important than what category is listed.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I guess: is there consistent evidence that they function or exist as information, or do they just happen to have been created in this world and now function like normal things?

They have been created in the virtual world but can now walk in reality and function normally. We saw from Unagami, the ruler of the world they come from, along with other NPCs also kept all of their in-game abilities in the Real World, and Unagami's creator stated he was "alive"

Honestly, I don't know enough to say.

You can consider me neutral on it.

Like I said, the justifications listed are far more important than what category is listed.

This is the normal lvl of technology in Ninjago, so recreating Spinjitzu out of tech is very impressive

And to be more precise with the Elemental Masters thing, there's only a few dozens in the entire Multiverse, and only around 16 in Ninjago, so they are not really common

 

[FinePoint]

They have been created in the virtual world but can now walk in reality and function normally. We saw from Unagami, the ruler of the world they come from, along with other NPCs also kept all of their in-game abilities in the Real World, and Unagami's creator stated he was "alive"

Right, so I don't really see anything there suggesting anything special is required to interact with them.
I see them interacting with the normal world pretty much how you'd expect.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Right, so I don't really see anything there suggesting anything special is required to interact with them.

As explained by WOG, they are composed of Video Game Energy which can interact with the world, so its essentially video game info walking around the world, which fits one of the standards. To support this, we also see that they get physically weaker when Dorama drains their energy via advanced technology

This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world

I see them interacting with the normal world pretty much how you'd expect.

Just because a Non-Physical being interact with the world doesn't mean everyone else can do vice versa tbh

 

[FinePoint]

As explained by WOG, they are composed of Video Game Energy which can interact with the world, so its essentially video game info walking around the world, which fits one of the standards. To support this, we also see that they get physically weaker when Dorama drains their energy via advanced technology




Just because a Non-Physical being interact with the world doesn't mean everyone else can do vice versa tbh

That's true, but do we see that at all?
Is there any example of things failing to interact with them?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

That's true, but do we see that at all?
Is there any example of things failing to interact with them?

We seen it in every episode in Prime Empire. Is more complex than Digiverse, and in order to interact with Digiverse you need to leave your body.

“Cyrus Borg even created a duplicate Ninjago in the Digiverse in hopes that one day everyone could leave their bodies and live there.”

— Nya, "The Digiverse and Beyond"​

 

[FinePoint]

We seen it in every episode in Prime Empire. Is more complex than Digiverse, and in order to interact with Digiverse you need to leave your body.

Could you send a screenshot or clip, please?