Ninja vs Samurai (Kai vs Takeru Shiba)

[Robo432343]

Kai (Ninjago)

Kai is the Red Ninja of Fire, and Nya is his younger sister. He and his teammates were chosen by Sensei Wu to protect the Green Ninja. He was the last Ninja to join the team, last to get his Golden Weapon, and the last to unlock his True Potential. Tier: 4-C, higher with Spinjitzu | At least 4-C...

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vs

Takeru Shiba

Takeru Shiba AKA Shinken Red is one of the main protagonists of Samurai Sentai Shinkenger. He assumed the role of the 18th Head of the Shiba Clan, only to be revealed as a decoy for the official Lord later on. Takeru leads the Shinkengers, a group of samurai tasked to defeat the Gedoshu. While...

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SBA
Speed Equal
Both 4-C

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Tbh it all depends on how skilled Takeru is. Kai can hit him with huge ass fire walls, and since SBA use both strongest 4-C Keys, he could technically teleport close to Takeru and hit him with a blast

 

[AigerTheKing]

Tbh it all depends on how skilled Takeru is. Kai can hit him with huge ass fire walls, and since SBA use both strongest 4-C Keys, he could technically teleport close to Takeru and hit him with a blast

He could start by spawning dupes

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He could start by spawning dupes

Doesn't seem in character for him to do

 

[AigerTheKing]

Doesn't seem in character for him to do

He's still capable of hurting and blowing up Kai with a few strikes

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He's still capable of hurting and blowing up Kai with a few strikes

Again, Kai is capable of covering the distance gap pretty fast and use Explosion manip at a distance or Lightning

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Kai also got the LS advantage here

Lifting Strength: At least Class T (Elemental Masters are naturally stronger then normal humans. After unlocking his Elemental Dragon, got stronger to the point where he was able to push back and contend with Anacondrais, who could earlier on restrain Cole)

Lifting Strength: Class K (Comparable to Ryunosuke Ikenami, who along with a Kuroko, pulled the Kajiki Origami out of the water[10], which weighs 900 tons) | At least Class K (Stronger than his untransformed self) | At least Class K (Stronger than before) | At least Class K (Much stronger than before)

What stops him from freezing Takeru?

 

[AigerTheKing]

What stops him from freezing Takeru?

Didn't think of

Again, Kai is capable of covering the distance gap pretty fast and use Explosion manip at a distance or Lightning

Takeru isn't badly skilled either btw

 

[Minaaaa]

What stops him from freezing Takeru?

He can react before it happens

Analytical Prediction (By feeling the intent of his opponent, Takeru can predict attacks before they happen[3])

Also, whats stopping takeru from just.... knocking the staff out of his hand from a distance

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Also, whats stopping takeru from just.... knocking the staff out of his hand from a distance

As if Kai is going to let happen
Becomes intangible and evades his attacks

He can react before it happens

Gets close + Power Absorption

 

[Tomfer]

Gets close + Power Absorption

How is getting close a counter to analytical prediction? What's stopping Takeru from just reading any physical movement from Kai and know what would he do next?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How is getting close a counter to analytical prediction? What's stopping Takeru from just reading any physical movement from Kai and know what would he do next?

Kai has his own Preco as well, they are even

 

[Tomfer]

Kai has his own Preco as well, they are even

I assume it's from the Element of the Mind? A stole weapon from a tertiary character? Does he ever use in battle? If so, how frequent? How does it even works in battle? It is a starting move? Because Takeru seems to be passive since it's a skill feat.

Let's how ignore the fact that it's not listed in his standard or optinal equipment sections, making it seem him using to be ooc.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I assume it's from the Element of the Mind? A stole weapon from a tertiary character? Does he ever use in battle? If so, how frequent? How does it even works in battle? It is a starting move?

SOE users got no In character moves, they legit use anything depending on the situation (and Kai is naturally bloodlusted to back it up, I think this should be precised in his profile).

 

[Tomfer]

SOE users got no In character moves, they legit use anything depending on the situation

I'm talking about Kai, how frequent, if at all, does he use that staff? If it's not something that he actively does it, or isn't passive, then this argument is done.

(and Kai is naturally bloodlusted to back it up, I think this should be precised in his profile).

Being bloodlusted =/= Knowing how to counter the enemy.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'm talking about Kai, how frequent, if at all, does he use that staff?

He obtained it in 1 episode of S4, after having seen how all the powers he owns works

If it's not something that he actively does it, or isn't passive, then this argument is done.

Its not a standard equipement. Its listed as a different form for a reason. Being bloodlusted implies doing anything for a win. SOE users are passively corrupted and shown to use any tactics depending on their situation, which is why Im saying Kai will pull anything

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How is getting close a counter to analytical prediction?

It removes all the powers of someone if ur talking abt power absorption

 

[Tomfer]

He obtained it in 1 episode of S4, after having seen how all the powers he owns works

Its not a standard equipement. Its listed as a different form for a reason. Being bloodlusted implies doing anything for a win. SOE users are passively corrupted and shown to use any tactics depending on their situation, which is why Im saying Kai will pull anything

Being bloodlusted doesn't automically make you a knowledgeable god, bro. You're just throwing hyporbolics at the wall to see what sticks. You haven't answered any of my questions too.

It removes all the powers of someone if ur talking abt power absorption

His analytical predictions comes from skill, not powers. So worthless.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Being bloodlusted doesn't automically make you a knowledgeable god, bro.

When did I say he was a knowledgeable god?

You're just throwing hyporbolics at the wall to see what sticks. You haven't answered any of my questions too.

I did answer your question lol

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You're just throwing hyporbolics at the wall to see what sticks.

Yes, Kai having gained knowledge on his opponents after viewing how they all use their powers is purely hyperbolic (He owns the powers of these same opps in that form)

 

[Tomfer]

I did answer your question lol

Does he ever use in battle? If so, how frequent? How does it even works in battle? It is a starting move?

If it's not something that he actively does it, or isn't passive

You did not said if he uses frequently, how he uses it, if it is passive or it's something that he needs to active. You just said that he got the staff at a certain episode, that's it. Just show us Kai using that power if you can't answer these questions, damn.

And, by the messy SOE tabber, it seems to be a bunch of different staffs instead of being just one. This might be because the person who made this tabber is stupid, but why are you assuming that Kai would immediately go for that specific staff instead of the many words? This question might be easily answered because I have vague memories of all of those staffs becoming one? Been ages since I last saw that season, or ninjago at all.

 

[AigerTheKing]

He can react before it happens

He lacks Resistance Negation against Fire resistances tbh

 

[Robo432343]

Who has higher ap

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You did not said if he uses frequently, how he uses it, if it is passive or it's something that he needs to active.

Its activation based (thougth based obviously)

You just said that he got the staff at a certain episode, that's it. Just show us Kai using that power if you can't answer these questions, damn.

Its a form he had for a single episode only, which is why SOE Kai is seperated from Base Kai

And, by the messy SOE tabber, it seems to be a bunch of different staffs instead of being just one. This might be because the person who made this tabber is stupid, but why are you assuming that Kai would immediately go for that specific staff instead of the many words?

Its the same staff having the powers of all the EMs listed in his page. The reason why SOE users could use anything is because the staff litterally makes them use EP depending on what situation the enemy put them into. Kai used Lightning to free Skylor and incap some guys, then used Energy to block a venom attack on Lloyd, then used Ice to incap Clouse, and then started spamming different EPs towards approaching enemies. Same thing with Chen, using the same staff, randomly using any elements against Lloyd, like Speed to dodge his blow, Shadow and then Fire against Lloyd, then Ice, and then Fire again to prevent him from hiding, Smoke to evade Lloyd's attack again and finally Metal to reflect a blast on him. My main argument is that Kai would just randomly use any Elemental Powers that works, and due to him being visually shown bloodlusted, could start with anything

 

[Minaaaa]

Who has higher ap

takeru, since he scales to this

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

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[Lloydblitzed]

Who has higher ap

Takeru scale to this
Kai possess Lloyd's power and would technically be at the very least 20% x 4-C, which gives him the AP advantage (and he technically upscales from Wu who is capable of Reality Warping places with an astronomical unit, but that's a talk for another day)

 

[Minaaaa]

As if Kai is going to let happen
Becomes intangible and evades his attacks

i mean kai can get taken off guard like what happened to him and chen

 

[Lloydblitzed]

i mean kai can get taken off guard like what happened to him and chen

Takeru would need to close distance with him to do that, which is hard enough considering he's spamming a barrage of attacks

 

[Minaaaa]

Takeru would need to close distance with him to do that

he doesnt need to (1:08)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

he doesnt need to (1:08)

Im sorry but how is this catching Kai off guard from 100m away?

 

[Robo432343]

Takeru scale to this
Kai possess Lloyd's power and would technically be at the very least 20% x 4-C, which gives him the AP advantage (and he technically upscales from Wu who is capable of Reality Warping places with an astronomical unit, but that's a talk for another day)

Are you sure that author statement is allowed? According to my calculations Takeru has a 1.96x ap advantage

 

[Tomfer]

Its the same staff having the powers of all the EMs listed in his page. The reason why SOE users could use anything is because the staff litterally makes them use EP depending on what situation the enemy put them into. Kai used Lightning to free Skylor and incap some guys, then used Energy to block a venom attack on Lloyd, then used Ice to incap Clouse, and then started spamming different EPs towards approaching enemies. Same thing with Chen, using the same staff, randomly using any elements against Lloyd, like Speed to dodge his blow, Shadow and then Fire against Lloyd, then Ice, and then Fire again to prevent him from hiding, Smoke to evade Lloyd's attack again and finally Metal to reflect a blast on him. My main argument is that Kai would just randomly use any Elemental Powers that works, and due to him being visually shown bloodlusted, could start with anything

Thanks for finally clarifying. Since he's a wildcard here, I doubt he'd specifically start with precog since he's not shown to do that. With your scans, he's most likely to start with his own element or, maybe lighting? Or whatever Lloyd's power is. my point is he'd start with an offensive skill instead of Neuro's.

And to be honest, by looking at Neuro's profile, his precog in combat just sucks. He needs to concentre mid-battle to see that other guy's mind, closing his eyes during a battle is rarely a good thing, lmao. Doesn't help that he sees only a few seconds into the future, which would change the very moment Takeru sees Kai act first. So he'd need to constantly stop mid-fight to see his next move.

That was the only point I was interested in, I'd let Mina take it from here.

Kai possess Lloyd's power and would technically be at the very least 20% x 4-C, which gives him the AP advantage (and he technically upscales from Wu who is capable of Reality Warping places with an astronomical unit, but that's a talk for another day)

Not gonna lie... That statement is looking bad, that lego monkey verse is already getting into trouble with twitter statements such as that.

 

[MKF4]

Going to point out, Kai never used the power of Mind during his time wielding the Staff, even when it was corrupting him, he pretty much spent his time attack spamming everybody and their dog with offensive strikes outside of one brief pause to protect Lloyd with an energy shield. The corruption didn't really hinder his combat ability, but the bloodlust doesn't really help his combat knowledge. In-character Kai primarily was offense focused, so powers like precog or Mind would not be how he operates out the gate. That said, if Kai holds a sizable edge in AP, then this would be a significant edge for him as he leads with his AP strikes out the gate.

Conveniently, Kai's time using the Staff of Elements is only 2 minutes long at max, and is all shown in an official Cartoon Network clip linked here.

I'll keep an eye out on this, sounds like a fun discussion!

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not gonna lie... That statement is looking bad, that lego monkey verse is already getting into trouble with twitter statements such as that.

He stated it again on a non leading question related question by adding clarification, not really like LMK's case

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Matchup of goats

 

[Minaaaa]

Im sorry but how is this catching Kai off guard from 100m away?

he already has the range to hit him
Range: Extended Melee Range; Hundreds of Meters with special attacks; At least Hundreds of Meters with the Kyoryu Origami.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

he already has the range to hit him
Range: Extended Melee Range; Hundreds of Meters with special attacks; At least Hundreds of Meters with the Kyoryu Origami.

Yes but it won't catch him off guard considering he will see it coming and has the range to reply with a blast or a barrage

 

[AigerTheKing]

Takeru looks cool but I don't see how he's defending himself against a huge barrage of explosive blasts and lightning at such a distance, and that's considering he was only caught off guard from a pretty close range too. Voting Kai

 

[Minaaaa]

Having analytical prediction would help Takeru tremendously in this battle plus he has attack reflection. Whats the range for kai's standard blasts, he could outrange him and hit him from a distance

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Having analytical prediction would help Takeru tremendously in this battle plus he has attack reflection

He's not reflecting Fire blasts that blows up on contact