Naruto: Revision Reborn

[Kepekley23]

This is a continuation of the following thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1287739

We are close to finishing the revisions, but there is still stuff that needs to be sorted out, and new problems with the old scaling have been discovered, even if they aren't major ones.

• The Sound Four's CM2 is ten times above CM1, making Jirobo and Sakon 8-A. Scales to a LOT of characters, such as Temari, Kankuro, Kimimaro, Butterfly Choji, Kakashi, Zabuza, End of Part 1 Naruto and Sasuke, Kisame, Itachi, Guy, possibly Sasori, Kabuto, Sai, Yamato, Sakura and etc.

However, Yamato is supposed to be a Part 1 jonin-level opponent and he only has a City Block level+ feat, supporting the previous scaling. The "10 times stronger" claim was repeated twice, though, so I don't know.

• KN8 Naruto will be downgraded, as will anyone who scales to him.

• Kakashi's physical strength is at odds here; should he be 7-C or not?

 

[Aizenishere]

First

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Have you looked at my counter claim in the previous post were KN8 should not be downgraded?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Closed the previous one.

 

[Amexim]

Damn.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Guy (6 gates) and Kakashi took blows from Utakata in his 6-tails V2 state.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

seems fine i suppose

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Kep to be safe for Kakashi, if you really want to, you could just say 8-A Possibly 7-C?

 

[Promestein]

The Sound Four stuff seems fine to me. An 8-B feat for Yamato doesn't mean that's his limit.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Same here, we should put him at Low 7-C+ since with a Zetsu, Yamato has been fighting on equal terms with Hiruzen.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

God I'm gonna try and calmly ask this but did directly state "10 times above the first curse mark" or "10 times what they normally are".

A scan would be nice.

 

[Kepekley23]

@LordGriffin

Here

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

"At least 8-A possibly 7-C" could work for Kakashi as a compromise.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

My only problem with is now it makes many other calcs irrelevant and now we got to scale up regardless and as known to some around the wiki, I really dislike the way of scaling in Naruto but I'm not going to go into it or argue. I'm starting to get many headaches and debating isn't going to help so I'm just taking a step back.

I'm ok with this... Somewhat.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@LordGriffin1000

Scaling got really weird during Shippuden, so I don't blame you.

 

[Reppuzan]

Also, shouldn't Sakura be At least 7-C for end-of-story? She surpassed Tsunade, who is At least 7-C in her final tab. In addition, according to the Naruto wiki (which has a citation for this), Boruto stated in the novel that Sakura would be perfectly capable of filling in as Hokage.

 

[Promestein]

Sakura is At least 7-C.

 

[Amexim]

Why possibly? He scales to people who scale to the Kage physical powerhouses. Give him a likely for semantics if we're not confident enough in that idea. Even though, again, so long as the characters in question physically scale to those with durability or striking feats, it's just as legit as anything else.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Amexim

Okay. I think "Likely" is better.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

. . . Kakashi made Obito bleed

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Shouldn't Gaara's dad also be high 7-C for contending with Gaara and having stopped Shukaku in the past?

 

[Amexim]

@Tenshin, if that's not scaling, it doesn't exist. For me, it's a 7-C, definitely.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Prom

Guess I missed that.

I think 7-C Kakashi makes sense, since he was being considered for the position of Hokage anyhow.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Rasa went down pretty quick when he fought Gaara and could only beat Shukaku via his Magnet Release

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

He was defeated after he was forced to lift the Gold Dust. He still contended with Gaara and has stopped Shukaku when he went on a rampage.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Kakashi is staying 7-C then.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Rasa was fighting a Shukaku with Gaara still in his head. The Possum technique that Gaara uses only gives Shukaku a minimal of his power given by the fact that he fought Gamabunta and took on his Wind Release. And Gamabunta was even able to restrain Shukaku for brief periods of time

Giving that Orochimaru's fodder snakes city to multi city block feats, and Gamabunta is without stronger than them. It's safe to say Shukaku was nowhere near his full power

 

[Velogadoo]

I Think Kakashi should only be 7-C In he war arc, before this he was struggling against a heavily weakened Kage Summit Sasuke and 30% of of Itachi.

 

[Amexim]

I would agree if you remind me of a timeskip or anything confirming Kakashi trained before the war arc. Because, iirc, the war happened basically right after the Gokage scenario.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Sasuke had Susanoo and only got weak went his light were dying out. 30% Itachi was defeated in a team effort to minimize time and chakra consumption as Naruto basically one-shotted Itachi with the Odama Rasengan

 

[Amexim]

The 30% Itachi scenario was also arcs ago. So...

Though, IMO (meaning this is how I FEEL, so ignore it), I don't really believe Kakashi's strength and speed changed much from the beginning of the series to the end. He has all this skill and hype surrounding him and how he should be a Kage, despite being nowhere close to Kage level in terms of feats. To say that he's not MHS from the beginning (since he cut a lightning bolt) is kinda weird if we go by statements.

But, I know I don't make sense, so...

 

[Gemmysaur]

Going by the theory of Narutoverse people having their own limits on how much they can reinforce themselves in physical stats, Kakashi is by far the posterboy of chakra control so I don't see it being difficult to accept that he's 7-C. I mean, Guy could be much stronger than Kakashi with his gates and still be within the 7-C range right?

 

[Velogadoo]

But doesn't Naruto one shotting and them wanting to save time and chakra prove my point? Clearly 30% percent Itachi clone isn't 7-C, so it would be faster for Kakashi to just one shot him if he could. Unless were gonna put Kyubi amped early shippuden Naruto at 7-C? Itachi clone even blocks and survives multiple punches from Kakashi.

http://www.**********.com/naruto/258/5

http://www.**********.com/naruto/260/6

I'll see if i can find some evidence of Kakashi training

 

[Gemmysaur]

Naruto himself shows that shadow clones are physically up to par with the user, except for durability against attacks they're not braced against (e.g. getting hit compared to blocking).

Oh, and wasn't clone Itachi sparring with clone Kakashi at the time? He even commented at the end that genjutsu won't work because he was up against a clone.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Besides, Its stated 30% of their chakra and you have to note that the reason Itachi clone managed to take Kakashi's blows because he was bowering the body of Yura a jonin and a part of Gaara's council. He was strong enough to wipe out a group of jonin and anbu by himself.

Also Naruto killed him

 

[Velogadoo]

Those aren't Shadow clones though. It's basically what Nagato uses for the Six paths of pain, it's the shapeshifting technique. I don't really know how to explain so here's what the wiki says portion of an individual's chakra and transfers it into a living human sacrifice, allowing the original to fight via an elaborate "copy". The appearance of the person on whom the Shapeshifting Technique is performed is completely identical to the original person. The technique will imitate any weapons, tools or kekkei genkai held by the original person, allowing the copy to fight with them. The power of the copy is in proportion to the volume of allocated chakra

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Itachi's chakra and kekkei genkai with the body of a jonin who slaughtered his own platoon of Jonin and Anbu by himself. Also from the Suna council.

 

[Velogadoo]

So you're saying they received chakra, but could only put that chakra into their attack power and not defense. And What about Kisame's clone?

 

[Velogadoo]

This is irrelevant anyways, the point still stands that Naruto was able to Kill someone Kakashi couldn't when Naruto was only like 8-A. So either Naruto is 7-C or Kakshi wasn't at that time, and i think Kakashi wasn't 7-C.

 

[Ezeriot]

KN8 naruto never did anything relevant for any other character to scale to him so what does the downgrade matter?

Also Kakashi physically being City or Mountain level? Well.... No... It's quite obvious he's not from in-manga statements he's made. If it has to do with Kakashi fighting Obito, people have to realize that Obito in fact made Kakashi win.