Naruto Revision: Part 1 Sasuke Intelligence Upgrade (Fix)

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

After looking at Sasuke's Intelligence section, I've come to realize that he (along with basically every Naruto character) needs a massive overhaul. For now I'll be starting off with Sasuke but will eventually get to all the other characters.


This is the sandbox with Sasukes revised intelligence.


Please let me know if there is anything else i should add/fix up in the sandbox.

 

[KingTempest]

They should both be gifted. Very High isn't an intelligence rating and his feats aren't at the level of Genius yet

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

They should both be gifted. Very High isn't an intelligence rating and his feats aren't at the level of Genius yet

I fixed his Academic rating, but i heavily disagree with his combat rating not being Genius.

 

[M3X_2.0]

A handful of characters should have Genius Intelligence. I agree with that.

 

[KingTempest]

I fixed his Academic rating, but i heavily disagree with his combat rating not being Genius.

Genius: Individuals with an exceptional capacity for knowledge and intelligence, generally in one area of varying depth, often possessed by fictional scientists and strategists. This level of intelligence is the level of actual geniuses and famous intellectuals in the real world and, in lieu of better feats, should be the default intelligence category for fictional characters treated as if they have exceptional or superhuman intelligence.

Sasuke's skill feats that you put don't "scream" Genius. They scream that he's a gifted skilled fighter.

Spoiler

Genius: During their first fight against Kakashi as Team Seven, Sasuke is able to analyze and patiently wait for an opening for a counterattack.

Waiting until an opponent is off guard is not a Genius level skill feat. That's just being out of their line of view and attacking, which even average intelligence is good enough for.

Even when his counterattack failed, Sasuke was able to lure Kakashi into a trap and force him into hand two hand combat where he was able to apply enough pressure to Kakashi, one of the highest ranking jonin in the village enough to where he couldn't read his book.

You don't scale people in skill because they make them put barebones effort in defending against a multi step attack. This is like attacking with 2 arms on 2 different sides against a martial artist and them blocking with 2 hands, meaning that you're a relevant opponent..

During Team Sevens Land of Waves escort mission, their team got ambushed by two assassins, Sasuke immediately moved into action and quickly devised a strategy to counter his opponent and even getting praised by Kakashi.

This is quick thinking. Genius rating isn't given by Quick Thinking unless it's something over the top.

Haku, who has been fighting since he was a child and praised by Zabuza to be an extremely intelligent ninja was getting pushed back and overwhelmed by Sasuke.

They blatantly call this a battle of speed in your scan. This isn't valid for skill/intelligence scaling, better yet the Genius rating.

During the heat of battle Sasuke is able to keep focus and dodge Haku's attacks enough to avoid his vitals getting hit while also protecting Naruto.

This isn't genius. This is good reflexes.

Haku also complements Sasuke on his amazing stamina, reflexes, training skill and judgement. Sasuke was also able to force awaken his Sharingan which then Haku calls him a prodigy while Kakashi calls him a genius along with Zabuza saying he may be Haku's equal.

These are not Genius feats. These are people surprised of a child having good physical stats and training above of his age. Even forcefully awakening his sharingan doesn't even seem genius from the effort designed to put into it, when all it takes it just focusing chakra into your eyes.

Sasuke's able to focus his chakra so precisely he can use it as a magnetic force to direct his kunai with his foot towards his opponent to act as a diversion for him to get close to them and counterattack.

This isn't Genius. This is just creative use of a very versatile power system.

It's like calling a child genius for being able to build a computer when he watches and follows a youtube video on how to put it together and he has all the tools to do it.

Sasuke's fight against Orochimaru showcased his his ability to anticipate his opponents every move

Sharingan amp, not skill. It's just the abilities of his dojutsu. He says it again.

and the accuracy of his targeting,

Good Shuriken jutsu training. We don't give genius rating to people who can throw throwing cards at opponents with good accuracy.

he's also able to detect his opponents escape route during battle along a path even Orochimaru didn't see.

Same as the one 2 sections above.

Most of these are good physical stats and good training + being gifted for his age.

Even the statement of Genius is humorous when they just give it to people who are good in school, whereas people like Naruto, who actually have genius feats, they call "a fool" in comparison to literally everyone else.

So this is Gifted to me

 

[Kin201]

@KingTempest @Wrath_Of_Itachi Hebi Sasuke was talented and genius in combat enough to the point that he put Orochimaru into shame. I think this should be mentioned.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest @Wrath_Of_Itachi Hebi Sasuke was talented and genius in combat enough to the point that he put Orochimaru into shame. I think this should be mentioned.

This will be put for Part 2 Sasuke, whether that's genius or not is even questionable,

Even the statement of Genius is humorous when they just give it to people who are good in school, whereas people like Naruto, who actually have genius feats, they call "a fool" in comparison to literally everyone else.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

This is only for Part 1 Sasuke.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What can define the baseline of genius intelligence in terms of combat?

 

[joshpiece]

I agree with KT

 

[LordGinSama]

Rejected because the OP has the big gay.


On a serious note, aside from from grammatical issues I don't see anything wrong with what's being proposed. I also agree with King that this is more akin to gifted levels of intelligence.

 

[KingTempest]

What can define the baseline of genius intelligence in terms of combat?

this might need it's own thread, it's poorly defined on the wiki

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sasuke's skill feats that you put don't "scream" Genius. They scream that he's a gifted skilled fighter.

Spoiler

Waiting until an opponent is off guard is not a Genius level skill feat. That's just being out of their line of view and attacking, which even average intelligence is good enough for.
You don't scale people in skill because they make them put barebones effort in defending against a multi step attack. This is like attacking with 2 arms on 2 different sides against a martial artist and them blocking with 2 hands, meaning that you're a relevant opponent..
This is quick thinking. Genius rating isn't given by Quick Thinking unless it's something over the top.
They blatantly call this a battle of speed in your scan. This isn't valid for skill/intelligence scaling, better yet the Genius rating.
This isn't genius. This is good reflexes.
These are not Genius feats. These are people surprised of a child having good physical stats and training above of his age. Even forcefully awakening his sharingan doesn't even seem genius from the effort designed to put into it, when all it takes it just focusing chakra into your eyes.
This isn't Genius. This is just creative use of a very versatile power system.

It's like calling a child genius for being able to build a computer when he watches and follows a youtube video on how to put it together and he has all the tools to do it.
Sharingan amp, not skill. It's just the abilities of his dojutsu. He says it again.
Good Shuriken jutsu training. We don't give genius rating to people who can throw throwing cards at opponents with good accuracy.
Same as the one 2 sections above.

Most of these are good physical stats and good training + being gifted for his age.

I'm sorry, but that's not how you - should - do that. Not all feats should be on a Genius level, a good intelligence section should not only contain the feat that would male the character a genius, but also casual and good smaller feats, like a bunch of Gifted feats. And you're misleading the feats. Sasuke in Part 1 is a 12/13 years old boy who have never fought on a mortal battle before and have alrwady enough skill and seem to have experience to act before anyone else could.

Spoiler: Explaning Sasuke's basics skill

I think it is common knowledge that Sasuke has always been good in Taijutsu, he has always been versatile in the area, abusing the enemy himself, moving in the air and using the scenery to his advantage. Sasuke can also be apt enough to copy and adapt his body in a short time to use Lee's Taijutsu, which he took his whole life to learn. Even the anime, which despite being non-canon, shows that Sasuke is far superior to Naruto, for example, who even using clones, can't even touch Sasuke. Of course Naruto was in base form, which limits him, quite a bit. But even with transformations, he wouldn't be better than Sasuke. Besides copying Taijutsu and using it against the enemy, Sasuke also predicts everything he's going to do and will create countermeasures before the enemy even attacks him. I think it's important to show that it doesn't matter if the opponent/enemy is physically stronger, how Sasuke was able to handle not only a bigger, but stronger and more experienced opponent than him, Kakashi, repeating the spell would be no mystery. He knew these handicapping factors and invested precisely in the element of surprise with a feint. Soon after, he demonstrates excellent flexibility in being able to execute precise blows in mid-air, keeping his punches pinned down and maintaining combat in a position advantageous to the one with greater physicals. It is worth noting that he only arrived in this unfavorable state against someone of superior attributes by intention, since the goal was not to defeat Kakashi, but to get the bells. I go back to flexibility, an essential thing in any hand to hand combat. Sasuke can execute long blows in mid-air, something that demands too much of a physical abilitie, especially when coupled with a combo of precise blows. Sasuke in a few seconds of fighting would realize this and use it to his advantage, after all he can assimilate the best move in several instances, as well as when he defended Naruto and knocked down two opponents in the chunnin exam.

Reactivity to the situation, yes what a great keyword. He specifically knew how to handle weapons when needed, not only making sure Naruto wouldn't get hurt he was able to react and calculate how to use his available "cards" to stop opponents. This is applicable here, after all anyone who has merely watched or read Naruto knows how bladed weapons can be game changers and a fatal blow. Reacting to basic blows, something so generic and so obvious to use would be familiar to casual Sasuke training. And that is just Sasuke's martial ability, we are leaving aside his other jutsus and skills. The previous feat may seem simple, but it shows how calloused Sasuke's mind already was from an early age, being able to react to attacks in a quick and disciplined manner, unlike the mass of ninjas at his age. Let's go back to agility. Sasuke is superior to individuals who train precisely in agile and fast hand-to-hand combat, causing nearby ninjas to be astonished. That is a context weapon, he spends every single day training to fight that, agile, fast and stronger people. Ninjas, yes, those who appreciate the art of the body to fight, Sasuke is extremely used to fighting people of sharp martial bearing, simply for context he has great callousness in this area.

This is an explanation of a few feats I had since months ago and the second part is towards you, just to make it clear. I think it's clear how good a feat can be with a good and well detailed explanation on how it works, why it works and why it's good.

Even the statement of Genius is humorous when they just give it to people who are good in school, whereas people like Naruto, who actually have genius feats, they call "a fool" in comparison to literally everyone else.

I thought this was a joke but you're serious. This is a non-argument. Someone stating that Naruto is a fool is due to his personality, that was build given the context his childhood took place and how he acted. I lost the count of how many times my teachers told me I'm intelligente but lazy, that's the same thing. And genius in Naruto isn't only someone good in school, I mean, they are, but it shows how superior they are compared to everyone else, graduating years earlier than them and outskilling them in nearly everything possible.

This will be put for Part 2 Sasuke, whether that's genius or not is even questionable,

No, his kid self is Genius and his teen self is even more.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm sorry, but that's not how you - should - do that. Not all feats should be on a Genius level, a good intelligence section should not only contain the feat that would male the character a genius, but also casual and good smaller feats, like a bunch of Gifted feats. And you're misleading the feats. Sasuke in Part 1 is a 12/13 years old boy who have never fought on a mortal battle before and have alrwady enough skill and seem to have experience to act before anyone else could.

The issue is that a third of them are Sharingan amps instead of actual skill feats, a third of them are misinterpreting physical stats as skill feats, and a third of them are actually gifted skill feats. Nothing is of genius caliber.

Spoiler: Explaning Sasuke's basics skill

I think it is common knowledge that Sasuke has always been good in Taijutsu, he has always been versatile in the area, abusing the enemy himself, moving in the air and using the scenery to his advantage. Sasuke can also be apt enough to copy and adapt his body in a short time to use Lee's Taijutsu, which he took his whole life to learn. Even the anime, which despite being non-canon, shows that Sasuke is far superior to Naruto, for example, who even using clones, can't even touch Sasuke. Of course Naruto was in base form, which limits him, quite a bit. But even with transformations, he wouldn't be better than Sasuke. Besides copying Taijutsu and using it against the enemy, Sasuke also predicts everything he's going to do and will create countermeasures before the enemy even attacks him. I think it's important to show that it doesn't matter if the opponent/enemy is physically stronger, how Sasuke was able to handle not only a bigger, but stronger and more experienced opponent than him, Kakashi, repeating the spell would be no mystery. He knew these handicapping factors and invested precisely in the element of surprise with a feint. Soon after, he demonstrates excellent flexibility in being able to execute precise blows in mid-air, keeping his punches pinned down and maintaining combat in a position advantageous to the one with greater physicals. It is worth noting that he only arrived in this unfavorable state against someone of superior attributes by intention, since the goal was not to defeat Kakashi, but to get the bells. I go back to flexibility, an essential thing in any hand to hand combat. Sasuke can execute long blows in mid-air, something that demands too much of a physical abilitie, especially when coupled with a combo of precise blows. Sasuke in a few seconds of fighting would realize this and use it to his advantage, after all he can assimilate the best move in several instances, as well as when he defended Naruto and knocked down two opponents in the chunnin exam.

Reactivity to the situation, yes what a great keyword. He specifically knew how to handle weapons when needed, not only making sure Naruto wouldn't get hurt he was able to react and calculate how to use his available "cards" to stop opponents. This is applicable here, after all anyone who has merely watched or read Naruto knows how bladed weapons can be game changers and a fatal blow. Reacting to basic blows, something so generic and so obvious to use would be familiar to casual Sasuke training. And that is just Sasuke's martial ability, we are leaving aside his other jutsus and skills. The previous feat may seem simple, but it shows how calloused Sasuke's mind already was from an early age, being able to react to attacks in a quick and disciplined manner, unlike the mass of ninjas at his age. Let's go back to agility. Sasuke is superior to individuals who train precisely in agile and fast hand-to-hand combat, causing nearby ninjas to be astonished. That is a context weapon, he spends every single day training to fight that, agile, fast and stronger people. Ninjas, yes, those who appreciate the art of the body to fight, Sasuke is extremely used to fighting people of sharp martial bearing, simply for context he has great callousness in this area.

This is an explanation of a few feats I had since months ago and the second part is towards you, just to make it clear. I think it's clear how good a feat can be with a good and well detailed explanation on how it works, why it works and why it's good.

Now this is a solid genius justification,

You gave feats of how Sasuke can take basic human actions and basic fighting techniques to the utmost of his ability. Instead of just listing his feats of reaction, you explained why they were valid and why they weren't just reaction feats.

I'm not saying that they weren't good feats, but it lacked reason for them to be good in the grand scheme of things.

I thought this was a joke but you're serious. This is a non-argument. Someone stating that Naruto is a fool is due to his personality, that was build given the context his childhood took place and how he acted. I lost the count of how many times my teachers told me I'm intelligente but lazy, that's the same thing. And genius in Naruto isn't only someone good in school, I mean, they are, but it shows how superior they are compared to everyone else, graduating years earlier than them and outskilling them in nearly everything possible.

I said the wrong term then. I didn't mean fool, in fact I meant failure.

In Naruto, they call people geniuses because they're exceptionally great/talented at something. They say either genius or failure. Half the people that are called geniuses are just noted for something important in the real world.

Half of their genius is brought up from being above others. Neji was reminded to be a genius because he beat Hinata in a fight. How is that genius.

No, his kid self is Genius and his teen self is even more.

Notice how I never said that Sasuke wasn't genius, I just said that the things given weren't genius.

Your explanation mixed with some factors of the OP would be perfect for a Pt 1 Sasuke genius skill rating.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The issue is that a third of them are Sharingan amps instead of actual skill feats, a third of them are misinterpreting physical stats as skill feats, and a third of them are actually gifted skill feats. Nothing is of genius caliber.

The feat being originated from the Sharingan doesn't mean he isn't skilled. You have people with Sharingan that doesn't use it as good as Sasuke, hell Sasuke's Sharingan isn't even a normal one, both Zetsu and Databook basically stated he matched Itachi's MS with his 3 Tomoe Sharingan. Sarada with her Sharingan doesn't have half of Sasuke's feats while at the same age. The Sharingan is a tool, everyone has a tool, Sasuke's tool (LMFAOO) is better than the average because he trained it to be better, and besides Itachi and maybe Obito no one had used the Sharingan better than him.

Now this is a solid genius justification,

You gave feats of how Sasuke can take basic human actions and basic fighting techniques to the utmost of his ability. Instead of just listing his feats of reaction, you explained why they were valid and why they weren't just reaction feats.

I'm not saying that they weren't good feats, but it lacked reason for them to be good in the grand scheme of things.

They look enough to me.

I said the wrong term then. I didn't mean fool, in fact I meant failure.

In Naruto, they call people geniuses because they're exceptionally great/talented at something. They say either genius or failure. Half the people that are called geniuses are just noted for something important in the real world.

Half of their genius is brought up from being above others. Neji was reminded to be a genius because he beat Hinata in a fight. How is that genius.

Not really, Ino is very good at TP and she isn't called a genius at that. Hinata is a master at her own style and isn't called a Genius. Take a look at what the people that are called genius have in common (Spoiler: Their combat skill)

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I said the wrong term then. I didn't mean fool, in fact I meant failure.

I'm sorry, King, but I heavily disagree with this argument.
Naruto was a failure. He literally did fail the graduation exam, numerous times, due to an average technique that most average students could easily pull off. He DID act like a buffoon most of the time, and he is kinda dense. All of Naruto's skill, intelligence, and merits were hidden from people for most of his childhood. Combine that with the people's inherent bias and hatred towards him, and it's no wonder they considered him a failure.
They were wrong, of course, but that's irrelevant. At the time, they had decent enough reason to consider him a failure. But whenever Naruto did show his surprising intelligence, creativity, and skill, he was almost always praised for it by others. Kakashi, Sakura, and Sasuke always praised Naruto in their own way. His genius was almost always recognized when he shows it, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't always show it, and he doesn't always show it, and it's part of his charm. He's the idiotic loser who defies the odd with his unpredictable, unorthodox, surprising level of intelligence and grit.

So yes, in context, people wrongfully labeling Naruto a failure doesn't take anything away from the people they've labeled geniuses.

In Naruto, they call people geniuses because they're exceptionally great/talented at something. They say either genius or failure. Half the people that are called geniuses are just noted for something important in the real world.

And how is that an issue, exactly? People are noted to be geniuses for being exceptional at something in the real world, too.
Michael Jordan was a genius in his field, Muhammad Ali was a genius in his field, and Albert Einstein was a genius in his field. That's just how that works. You're exceptional at a particular field, you're a genius.

And most "geniuses" in Naruto excel in many things. Look at Kakashi, Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, Gaara, Neji, Orochimaru, and more. Sure, you could argue each one has a specific Shinobi skill that they specialize in (Itachi with genjutsu for example), but it's undeniable that all of these guys are FAR above average in most fields, and even excel in academic intelligence. Each one of these guys is a legitimate genius, for a variety of reasons.
So no, I have to disagree with you. I think the in-verse intelligence labeling is mostly accurate, and when it's wrong, there's usually context for why that's the case.

Half of their genius is brought up from being above others. Neji was reminded to be a genius because he beat Hinata in a fight. How is that genius.

That's just inaccurate lol....
Neji was noted to be a genius because he mastered the Gentle Fist and the Byakugan, including secret main branch techniques, at a very young age without tutelage. Like.....c'mon, man.
His superiority complex wasn't the reason everyone considered him a genius, it was why he considered himself a genius at the time. This was, ironically, due to his underlying inferiority complex. But his actual skills were, in fact, above everyone in his clan.
But Neji was undoubtedly a genius in Taijutsu, and in general as well as we saw in his fight against Kidomaru. If not for his intelligence, he'd be dead.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'd be fine with the genius rating as long as it doesn't involve listing feats done via the Sharigan. That's a Supernatural, listing how long it took him how go learn it is fine but feats of Prediction, Analysis and senses probably shouldn't be used as sheer combat intelligence.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

This seems fine.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

There has been so updated justifications to Sasukes intelligence section.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm sorry, King, but I heavily disagree with this argument.
Naruto was a failure. He literally did fail the graduation exam, numerous times, due to an average technique that most average students could easily pull off. He DID act like a buffoon most of the time, and he is kinda dense. All of Naruto's skill, intelligence, and merits were hidden from people for most of his childhood. Combine that with the people's inherent bias and hatred towards him, and it's no wonder they considered him a failure.
They were wrong, of course, but that's irrelevant. At the time, they had decent enough reason to consider him a failure. But whenever Naruto did show his surprising intelligence, creativity, and skill, he was almost always praised for it by others. Kakashi, Sakura, and Sasuke always praised Naruto in their own way. His genius was almost always recognized when he shows it, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't always show it, and he doesn't always show it, and it's part of his charm. He's the idiotic loser who defies the odd with his unpredictable, unorthodox, surprising level of intelligence and grit.

So yes, in context, people wrongfully labeling Naruto a failure doesn't take anything away from the people they've labeled geniuses.

And how is that an issue, exactly? People are noted to be geniuses for being exceptional at something in the real world, too.
Michael Jordan was a genius in his field, Muhammad Ali was a genius in his field, and Albert Einstein was a genius in his field. That's just how that works. You're exceptional at a particular field, you're a genius.

And most "geniuses" in Naruto excel in many things. Look at Kakashi, Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, Gaara, Neji, Orochimaru, and more. Sure, you could argue each one has a specific Shinobi skill that they specialize in (Itachi with genjutsu for example), but it's undeniable that all of these guys are FAR above average in most fields, and even excel in academic intelligence. Each one of these guys is a legitimate genius, for a variety of reasons.
So no, I have to disagree with you. I think the in-verse intelligence labeling is mostly accurate, and when it's wrong, there's usually context for why that's the case.

That's just inaccurate lol....
Neji was noted to be a genius because he mastered the Gentle Fist and the Byakugan, including secret main branch techniques, at a very young age without tutelage. Like.....c'mon, man.
His superiority complex wasn't the reason everyone considered him a genius, it was why he considered himself a genius at the time. This was, ironically, due to his underlying inferiority complex. But his actual skills were, in fact, above everyone in his clan.
But Neji was undoubtedly a genius in Taijutsu, and in general as well as we saw in his fight against Kidomaru. If not for his intelligence, he'd be dead.

I agree with this.

 

[Popted2]

i agree