Nameless King downgrade

[The_Everlasting]

I ask because the Abyss Watchers' mantle as Lords of Cinder is divided amongst them, with the second phase being all of them combining their power into one body.

So that combined form would be 4-C, but I need to know how many there are to determine their individual tier.

 

[Therefir]

You can see in the cinematic how many they are.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Therefir

Aren't there more in the room where you fight them in.

 

[Therefir]

In lore is different I suppose.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

You'd have to count the amount of corpses located within Farron Keep. There are more than 40 if I recall correctly.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That would be around 4 tenatons for each, Low 4-C.

 

[Overlord775]

what's the low-end of small star level+ ?

 

[The_Everlasting]

80 tenatons is where we start with Low 4-C+.

 

[Therefir]

What do you think about: "Relativistic+ with Speed of Light attack speed", for the top tiers?, they can attack with light.

And Great Lord Gwyn as a Lord of Sunlight should be High 4-C, the difference between 4-C and High 4-C is just like 2.33x times.

What do you all think about this?

 

[The_Everlasting]

I agree with it. Important to note however that no one scales to Lord of Sunlight Gwyn.

 

[Therefir]

Dark, most of the profiles use "Extremely High" instead of "Extremely high", which is more correct?

 

[Dark649]

Both, but i like more Extremely high.

 

[Therefir]

Ok, I would apply the changes now.

 

[Therefir]

One question, the speed of light attack speed just applies to people who can attack with the sunlight spear right?

 

[Therefir]

Ok, I finished, those who can attack with sunlight have now speed of light attack speed.

Also, I don't know if the lifting strength is correct.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Nameless King should be Relativistic+ for his abilities with Lightning/Sunlight (I forget if he has the same Sunlight Spear has his father, Gwyn, but he can certainly battle the Ashen One, who DOES have access to it, so the two should be comparable) and 4-C for his placement in the game. 6-B is a bad idea for a foe that is meant to challenge the player that late in the game. He is clearly vastly superior to the Everlasting Dragon-s his Stormdrake was considered a notable dragon and it is incredibly weak compared to him. The Ashen One wipes out the Wyvern easily (it is an Everlasting Dragon).

4-C is a fitting ranking. He should not be High 4-C or Possibly 4-B, but he deserves 4-C. Just my two cents.

 

[Keeweed]

Nameless King should be Relativistic+ for his abilities with Lightning/Sunlight (I forget if he has the same Sunlight Spear has his father, Gwyn, but he can certainly battle the Ashen One, who DOES have access to it, so the two should be comparable) and 4-C for his placement in the game. 6-B is a bad idea for a foe that is meant to challenge the player that late in the game. He is clearly vastly superior to the Everlasting Dragon-s his Stormdrake was considered a notable dragon and it is incredibly weak compared to him. The Ashen One wipes out the Wyvern easily (it is an Everlasting Dragon).

4-C is a fitting ranking. He should not be High 4-C or Possibly 4-B, but he deserves 4-C. Just my two cents.

He's also Gwyn's son and Gwyndolin fought alatrich (spelled him name wrong) and only lost because he was sick.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As for the Abyss Watchers... the piles of corpses might not even be all of them. Many others could have died in foreign lands. The Watchers are in Ariandel, it isn't out of the question that their masters owuld be found far afield as well.

As a standard assumption for the Abyss Watchers, I would go with 1/6000th strength (a Legion is made up of 6000 members as a high end). This would equate to roughly 1.046x10^38 (Large Planet level), assuming we still use base-level Star level for Lords of Cinder.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Final note, out of boredom, I'm going to count how many Abyss Watcher corpses are showing on the floor of their boss arena. Keep in mind some might be obscured by the bodies of their fellows.

 

[Keeweed]

Final note, out of boredom, I'm going to count how many Abyss Watcher corpses are showing on the floor of their boss arena. Keep in mind some might be obscured by the bodies of their fellows.

I believe some are.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Another point. Depending on the decided tier for Darkeater Midir and the Abyss Watchers, Nameless King COULD scale to them.

The Abyss has clearly grown stronger by the time of DS3, capable of corrupting the souls of the Abyss Watchers.

This same Abyss was devoured by Darkeater Midir, who not only resisted it until the Ashen One finds them, but also can use it as an attack.

Nameless King is vastly above Everlasting Dragons. Midir is an Everlasting Dragon.

While they probably never met, that would still make sense to some degree (especially since you also battle Midir towards the end of the game).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I count 90 or so Abyss Watchers (piles of unidentifiable bodies are just considered 10 each- there are four of these). If anyone wants to get a more reliable number, feel free.


As a personal suggestion, if someone has mods on PC, taking an above view screenshot and counting the number of pairs of boots could be a very effective way of doing this if we discount the fact that most Abyss Watchers are probably not here in their crypt.

 

[Keeweed]

Another point. Depending on the decided tier for Darkeater Midir and the Abyss Watchers, Nameless King COULD scale to them.

The Abyss has clearly grown stronger by the time of DS3, capable of corrupting the souls of the Abyss Watchers.

This same Abyss was devoured by Darkeater Midir, who not only resisted it until the Ashen One finds them, but also can use it as an attack.

Nameless King is vastly above Everlasting Dragons. Midir is an Everlasting Dragon.

While they probably never met, that would still make sense to some degree (especially since you also battle Midir towards the end of the game).

No Midir is definitely much stronger than other dragons, but Gael would scale due to having the dark soul (most of it anyways).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I know Midir is much stronger than most dragons. Possibly even ALL other dragons. Was a stretch, but both are still nearly end-game bosses.

Overall, the following beings (non-Lord of Cinder) should be considered 4-C. In my opinion.

Sister Friede- She is an Ashen One, and guards the way to the Ringed City, an area only otherwise accessible by getting to the literal end of the game.

Yuria of Londor/Londor Pale Shade: Yuria is comparable to Sister Friede, both are able to damage the Soul of Cinder (although the Ashen One is the primary opponent still)

Kaathe/Frampt: Kaathe is Yuria's master and should be superior to her, Frampt is comparable to Kaathe

Slave Knight Gael: Contains within him the Dark Soul, that which spawned the Abyss; the Abyss was able to corrupt the Abyss Watcher Legion

Darkeater Midir: Consumed the Abyss for the entirety of the timeline of Dark Souls

In-Game Other Ashen Ones (Anri, Hawkwood, Siegward): Capable of battling Lords of Cinder, Hawkwood is able to battle the Nameless King

 

[Keeweed]

That all sounds good; also I think Gwyndolin fought Aldrich for a while but lost because he was sick so he should be 4-c aswell. *edit kaathe and frampt shouldn't they could be masters for political reasons.

 

[Keeweed]

Hawkwood was also an abyss watcher at one point.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I was under the impression that Gwyndolin was fed to Aldrich by Pontiff Sulyvahn. I'm not concrete on that, but I do seem to recall something along those lines.

As for Kaathe and Frampt... granted, but in these sorts of verses that is rarely the case. Anyhow, I'm willing to cede that point.

 

[Heilergott]

Im feeling bad that i'm writing this, but...

Shouldn't Nito and Izalith both Scale to lord of Sunlight Gwyn? They both also had a Lord Soul and are strongly indicated to be his equal...

 

[Overlord775]

Im feeling bad that i'm writing this, but...
Shouldn't Nito and Izalith both Scale to lord of Sunlight Gwyn? They both also had a Lord Soul and are strongly indicated to be his equal...

gwyn was directly powered by the first flame, so no

 

[Heilergott]

@Overlord

Wat. You talkin about Lord of Cinder Gwyn?

 

[Therefir]

Just make a CRT @Heilergott, but we already discussed this and everyone agree.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Heilergott Gwyn is 4-C for powering the Sun. His Lord Soul isn't reallyether or not Nito and Izalith are comparable. Its possible, but nothing suggests it.

 

[Keeweed]

Izalith tried to make her own first flame but it failed and she became the bed of chaos; meanwhile Gwyn went to the original flame and kept it lit for a thousand years, so he different is more powerful than Izalith and Nito.

 

[Heilergott]

'Lore implications intensifies'

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Izalith's experiment did fail. That is a valid point. Apparently part of my comment was cut off by my stupid keyboard, but Keeweed is technically correct. Izalith failed in her creation of what Gwyn was fueling.