My skills with the title are weak, have some Naruto databook stats

[LordTracer]

Introduction​

Sometime ago, this thread was made. Because of it, databook stats were accepted as being usable for scaling on the basis of them being consistent with the manga.

Unfortunately, they are nowhere near as consistent as the thread made them out to be.

Examples from the thread​

I’ll start off with some of the examples used in the thread to justify the stats being “consistent.”

They are both comparable in Ninjutsu, giving them both 5s.

In the literal next page, Sasuke overpowers Itachi and forces him into using Amaterasu.

Sasuke’s skills in Hand Signs are inferior to Itachi's, giving Itachi a 5 while Sasuke has a 4.

This does not imply Sasuke’s skills are inferior at all. He’s literally just stating what Itachi did.

Itachi is superior in Taijutsu, giving him a 4.5 while Sasuke has a 3.5.

This is a genjutsu. When Sasuke breaks out of the Tsukuyomi, he is in the middle of the floor instead of in the wall Itachi supposedly kicked him into. The crater that Sasuke was in is also nonexistent after the Tsukuyomi is broken.

Comparable in speed, justifying both of their 5s.

Sasuke has a 4.5 in speed, not a 5…

Also something that the original thread overlooked, Itachi’s stats are for Part I, yet his fight with Sasuke is in Part II, where he’s much weaker due to his disease.

She basically showed superiority to Naruto w/out a clone

No? Literally nothing about Naruto and Chiyo’s brief struggle implies that Chiyo is superior. Hell, Naruto intercepts her punch, implying that he’s the faster one and not Chiyo, causing the stats to contradict what the manga shows.

Examples of inconsistent stats​

Now I’ll just list multiple examples of databook stats that are inconsistent with what the manga shows. Some are only slight inconsistencies, some are extremely egregious.

Haku​

In the databook, Haku is given a 1.5 in strength, which is a lower stat than the likes of Konoha Crush Sasuke and Naruto (both have a 2 in strength).

This is obviously incorrect, as Kakashi implies that Haku is superior to Team 7, and later he directly states that Haku is stronger than him. (And Kakashi has a 3.5 in strength)

Edo Haku was also able to clash with Part II Rock Lee, who is a 4.5 in strength.

Sasuke v. Rock Lee​

Sasuke in the first databook is given a speed of 3, and in the second, he has a speed of 3.5. Rock Lee has a speed of 4 in the first and second databooks.

If you actually read Part I, I think you’d know why Lee being faster than Konoha Crush Sasuke is incorrect.

Kisame, Jiraiya, Itachi and Orochimaru​

Kisame has a 5 in strength while Jiraiya has a 4.5, however Kisame thought Jiraiya was in an entire different league from him, and he implied that he wouldn’t stand a chance in a fight. Kisame in that same paragraph implies that Itachi would have a chance, yet Itachi only has a 3.5. And in Part II, when Itachi was weaker, he could fight on par with Kisame in a sparring match. Orochimaru also has a 3.5 in strength despite being stated by the databook to be on par with Jiraiya. He also directly admits that he’s weaker than Itachi and a younger Itachi easily cut his hand off, yet they have the same strength stat?

Kakashi, Naruto and Sakura​

Part II Naruto and Kakashi both have 3.5s in strength while Sakura has a 3. Kakashi is stronger than Naruto and Sakura is stronger than both of them.

Kakashi and Kabuto​

Kakashi has a 3.5 in strength while Kabuto has a 3, even though they’re stated to be on par with each other more than once.

Bonus Round!​

Chūnin Exams Tenten has a 3.5 in speed, but Kazekage Gaara only has a 3.

Dosu has a 1.5 in strength (which by the way, is the same level as people like Ino and Shikamaru), despite fighting with Chūnin Exams Rock Lee, who has a 3.

Chūnin Exams Gaara has a 1 in strength. A 1. Temari has a 3, even though Gaara did this to her.

Sai has a 3 in strength, Naruto has a 3.5. No.

Hidan has a 3.5 in speed, meanwhile Asuma and Kakashi both have a 4.5. He kept up with both of them.

Sasori has a 3 in strength while Deidara has a 3.5, even though Deidara himself would say otherwise.

Sasuke has a 3.5 in strength, the same as Naruto and Yamato. Something tells me that’s not correct.

Do I really need to explain why Hiruzen (3) is far stronger than Chūnin Exams Chōji (3)?

Do I really need to explain why Orochimaru (3.5) is far stronger than Kakashi (3.5)?

Jirobo has a 5 in strength, I guess he just solos Hidan (4), Kakuzu (4), Deidara (3.5), Sasori (3) and Itachi (3.5), huh?

And these aren’t the only ones, there’s a lot more examples of these stats being clearly inconsistent with the manga and they can be provided if necessary.

Conclusion​

Databook stats should go back to being unusable. The occasional one might be accurate, but they’re more inconsistent than they are consistent, and it’d be better if we just didn’t use them at all.

Tally
Agree (9) - UchihaSlayer69, Nullflowerblush, Shadowbokunohero, Damage3245, Rocker1189, LordGriffin1000, Jvando, XSOULOFCINDERX, Milly_Rocking_Bandit
Disagree (0) -
Inconclusive (1) - ShrekAlmighty

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

Trash name.

 

[LordTracer]

Trash name.

I know, I should’ve asked you for a title

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, it's been agreed to only be used on a case by case basis, and ignored if it's inconsistent. But, like, if the stats that are inconsistent significantly outweighed the consistent ones, then it's simply not worth keeping at that point since we'd be cherry picking.
So yeah, I agree with the OP.
It's sad too because a few of the stats were nice to have, but consistency above all in the end.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

So does this mean that base guy still claps Itachi?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So does this mean that base guy still claps Itachi?

Always has been.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Always has been.

Then it must be a good CRT, inconclusive FRA.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Sasuke has a 3.5 in strength, the same as Naruto and Yamato. Something tells me that’s not correct.

ehhh...

Sai blocked his first attack, and the only reason Sasuke effortlessly sliced through Yamato's kunai was because he used the Chidori Blade, which was explicitly designed to have immense slicing/piercing damage through the application of Lightning Style jutsu.

But everything else is fine.

 

[LordTracer]

Sai blocked his first attack, and the only reason Sasuke effortlessly sliced through Yamato's kunai was because he used the Chidori Blade, which was explicitly designed to have immense slicing/piercing damage through the application of Lightning Style jutsu.

You’re not necessarily wrong, but Sai blocked it because of technique, not strength (which Sasuke implied, also Sai has a lower strength stat than all of them so either way it would support my point), and Sasuke straight up burst through Yamato’s Mokuton bubble so I think it still applies.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Oof those stats are really inconsistent

 

[Damage3245]

Databook stats should go back to being unusable.

Fully agreed.

Nine times out of ten, if a databook is giving you numbered scores for skills/attributes, it is a load of rubbish.

 

[Rocker1189]

You guys love posting when I am asleep lol. Agreed too.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Really?... I may have let UchihaSlayer off easy but I think now is the time I start caring

For the most part, I agree with the OP. There are many inconsistencies involving the stats and while I understand using some in a case by case basis, I also get why I'd be good to just ignore them entirely. One of the core problems with stats are that we don't know what the actual difference is better a 1 and a 1.5. Especially when we see people with the same exact state but the other is capable of killing the other with ease. This doesn't include the visual problems in the manga that would contradict them such as when a character with a lesser state can match a character with a higher stat (Example: Hidan being able to keep up with Asuma and Kakashi despite him being lower than them in speed).

This doesn't mean there all bad and I'll say it's likely Kishimoto tried at least to some extent since some states are justifiable but what we visually see beats what's stated. However I'd like to point out an inconsistent one that you mentioned, being the Kisame, Jiraiya, Itachi, and Orochimaru one.

Strength in Naruto isn't always defined in the physical manner and obviously, the characters don't know their "stat numbers". Plus, this is obviously Kisame's first encounter with Jiraiya and it's likely he's implying Jiraiya is better than him as a whole in the manner of jutsu, intelligence and so on. Remember that he is one of the "Legendary Sanin" and his hype would spread so Kisame is basing this off reputation. He also knows Itachi is a master at Genjustu so he may think that's what would give Itachi the victory that he himself couldn't achieve with brute force alone. Finally, in that exact encounter, both Kisame and Itachi outright surprise Jiraya by moving in the toads body that he assumed would have restricted their movements so it's clear he didn't know their capabilities either.

It's true that what I said regarding this topic is my own opinion and would be headcannon so you could take it with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert when it comes to Naruto and you've provided enough evidence to your claim even if what I said regarding the Kisame topic was valid. So as I stated at the beginning of the post, I agree with the OP, I just wanted to give my own opinion on the Kisame one because he's my favorite character in Naruto so I'm likely just being biased and want him to be the strongest person in the show.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I agree

 

[LordTracer]

Fully agreed.

I agree with the OP

I agree

Thank you all for your evaluations.

 

[Jvando]

Read through it and I agree as well. Can’t really say anything more as everything that I would have said has been said.

 

[LordTracer]

Thank you.

That’s four staff approvals, I believe that’s enough to consider this accepted.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well, it's been agreed to only be used on a case by case basis, and ignored if it's inconsistent. But, like, if the stats that are inconsistent significantly outweighed the consistent ones, then it's simply not worth keeping at that point since we'd be cherry picking.
So yeah, I agree with the OP.
It's sad too because a few of the stats were nice to have, but consistency above all in the end.

Agreed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Haku​

In the databook, Haku is given a 1.5 in strength, which is a lower stat than the likes of Konoha Crush Sasuke and Naruto (both have a 2 in strength).

This is obviously incorrect, as Kakashi implies that Haku is superior to Team 7, and later he directly states that Haku is stronger than him. (And Kakashi has a 3.5 in strength)

Edo Haku was also able to clash with Part II Rock Lee, who is a 4.5 in strength.

This was always interesting to me, and I tried to be optimistic & believe they rated it so low due to his reluctance to fight, but… yeah, I agree.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I have disagreements with some of your individual examples of inconsistency, but overall yeah I agree they're very inconsistent. Although I think what they're supposed to generally refer to are how good they are in certain categories relative to their overall skill, not necessarily to others, although of course there are exceptions.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Although I think what they're supposed to generally refer to are how good they are in certain categories relative to their overall skill, not necessarily to others

I think if this is true, it'd make a million times more sense lol.
Granted, that wouldn't really change a whole lot for the purposes of this thread since they still wouldn't be usable for scaling purposes. Might be useful for skill comparisons or for the intelligence sections though.

Edit: Another thing I just remembered that could support the stats not necessarily being meant for comparisons with other characters and just being meant to showcase each individual's strengths, weaknesses, and overall proficiency/preference in each category. So both Itachi and Orochimaru have a 5 in Genjutsu. I don't think I need to explain to anyone why Itachi is superior to Orochimaru when it comes to genjutsu, right? This is pretty much an objective fact. However, if we look at it from the perspective of what Orochimaru is most proficient at, has a lot of knowledge on or skill in, or what he prefers to use, then a 5 in genjutsu starts to look a whole lot more justifiable.

 

[TheLastStylebender]

If databook is unusable, it makes we can't use lightspeed from madara light fang right?

 

[Damage3245]

If databook is unusable, it makes we can't use lightspeed from madara light fang right?

Databook stats =/= the rest of the content in the databook.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, the rest of the databook is fine. It’s just the stats that specifically shouldn’t be used.

@Damage3245 Would you mind closing the thread? It seems like there’s pretty unanimous agreement here.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay.