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My Little Pony: Upgrades are Magic

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This better not get deleted as spam again.

Anyways, we've recently allowed Legends of Magic to be part of the show's canon, as a result, I believe we should update Celestia, Luna, and Discord to High 3-A. The upgrades were already accepted months ago so all the arguments for it have already been laid out and accepted. But that's not completely what I want to talk about. I also wanted to discuss the Elements of Harmony and the possibility of Low 2-C for not only them, but characters like Celestia and Luna. There are other characters I wanted to discuss and how they relate to the scaling, but I don't want to make the thread any bigger than it has to be. If this goes through, then I'll make a thread for that.

First off: The Elements of Harmony. I believe they should get a straight up Low 2-C via backscaling to the Human Elements. Not only is Darkanine fine with scaling them, but there is no evidence that the Human Elements grew infinitely stronger than the Pony ones. They have done nothing to justify such a massive growth. The Human Elements couldn't even evolve to become stronger than The Dazzlings. They only grew stronger when Sunset Shimmer added her Element of Empathy, which would mean the Elements didn't grow stronger individually, yet we are expected to believe they can suddenly grow to match an supposedly infinitely stronger force in the next movie? I don't think anyone is going to buy into that.

In addition to that the Pony Elements already have feats by themselves. Defeating characters with multiple Universe level statements, which even if not Low 2-C is still heavy support that they scale to the Human versions. It makes so much more logical sense if the Elements were always that strong to begin with. Especially taken into account that Darkanine is completely against the idea of them evolving to become stronger in the first place, which completely kills the original argument against the Pony Elements of Harmony scaling to begin with.

The last argument may be more difficult to convince people of, but I believe may be worth something in the end. Essentially, what I would suggest is that on top of the High 3-A rating, we also include a possibly Low 2-C. Why? For a few reasons. The first is a fabric of reality statement for the teenaged sisters. The second is context. Contextually, things like "reality" or "fabric of reality" or "Universe" or "world" are usually treated as the same thing in My Little Pony. Evidence can be found here, here, here, here, here, and here. Discord also has his own fabric of reality statement in To Where and Back Again. So, when they say Discord or The Sisters can warp the fabric of reality, they actually mean "the fabric of the Universe" as world and reality are being treated in the same context as Universe. This is especially the case with Legends of Magic involving parallel universes and parallel versions of the characters. It's pretty much impossible for reality to mean anything other than Universe here. Finally, I'll steal a quote from DoggoRoboto as a last argument (As far as fabric of reality is concerned):

DoggoRoboto said:
Ignoring the fact that World has met universe in several instances, even if this "somehow" referred to just a planet, it wouldn't make make sense. What would destroying the fabric of a planet even mea? It's obviously the universe.
My last argument is mostly about scaling and is debatably the most controversial argument I have here. I want to make something clear here before saying anything else: The feats I am about to talk about are not meant to scale the Sisters to the full power of the person or power they are being scaled to. However, it does strongly support the notion of "fabric of reality" being Low 2-C. Think of this as auxiliary scaling to provide additional support for what is already being argued. Not the main reasoning or arguments, just minor support.

Anyways, my last arguments are Nightmare Moon managing to momentarily hold back the Elements of Harmony. While she was ultimately defeated, it took 4 seconds to be overpowered completely. They couldn't instantly overwhelm her. Normally, this wouldn't be enough, but given her own statements, it might support the idea of tier 2 for the Sisters.

The next is the Pony of Shadows. Alternate Stygian considered them extremely powerful. To the point where he considered the Sisters to be a huge asset and help in his plans. He considered them extremely powerful and destructive and held their power in very very high regard. This went to the point where even after losing his world's version of the Sisters, he sought them out in other worlds just to have their power. The Pony of Shadows scales via surviving a hit from the Elements of Harmony. For him to go so far out of his way just to have their power by his side speaks volumes. Even if they don't completely scale to him, the way he views their power tells me they are at least in range of his general tier. I doubt he'd view people infinitely weaker than him as anything worth searching for.

As it is now, my suggestions for the current tiering for Celestia and Luna are as follows:

At least Solar System level (Raises the su every day, and has done so for over a thousand years. A small part of her power alongside Luna's can control the Sun and Moon), likely High Universe level (Stated to have infinite power for Destruction and was going to be used to make an infinite number of worlds empty and corrupted), possibly Universe level+ (Stated to have the power to warp the fabric of reality as a teenager, with reality being used in the same context as universe several times)

For the Elements of Harmony:

Universe level+ (With their power, Twilight Sparkle nearly destroyed the Human World, and with 5 out of 6 of them, Sunset Shimmer was able to undo the damage)
 
Bump. Shouldn't we make mention she (Celestia and Luna) should be superior to her teenage self due to Alicorns growing stronger as they get older ?

As for the thread: I can agree with this. Legendsnof Magic being considered canon literally makes this so consistent it isn't even funny.
 
I suppose that this seems to make sense.
 
Bump. Well, it's very likely, considering the discussion for this has already taken place and everybody else previously accepted it without issue. But, it's best to wait for confirmation about it.
 
@Light I agree that we have overwhelming support even now at the start of the thread no less.

Also while I got your attention: Shouldn't the justification be that the Alicorn Matriarchs are superior to their teenage selves ?
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
@Light I agree that we have overwhelming support even now at the start of the thread no less.
Also while I got your attention: Shouldn't the justification be that the Alicorn Matriarchs are superior to their teenage selves ?
I'm pretty sure that just mentioning their teenage selves would imply superiority.
 
Alright, we technically got three staff members on board with this (If we count Promestein from the last thread). Is this safe to apply?
 
You can ask Promestein to confirm that she supports this here via her message wall.
 
Warping the fabric of reality is a pretty vague statement that could just amount to Reality Warping.
 
@Prom Reality has referred to Universe so many times in MLP that it really could only mean "Universe" here, due to context . There was never really a "it's just reality warping" indication in any of the context it was mentioned.
 
You could say warping the fabric of the universe and it still wouldn't be Low 2-C. You're not necessarily altering and controlling the entire universe at once.
 
If verses are Low 2-C for such vague statements they really should be downgraded!
 
Maybe. But I'm not here for all verses. But, I believe further context reveals this feat as Low 2-C rather than any other indication.

The reason why warping the fabric of the universe here could be considered Low 2-C here is because when Sci-Twi described it was such during Movie Magic, she was referencing her almost destroying the Universes (almost is because Sunset reversed it). That should be enough proof that affecting the fabric of reality, at least in MLP, directly refers to affecting the Universe and should be considered Low 2-C here.
 
I'm just talking about the Low 2-C thing for the Princesses, with that reasoning. I don't care about the rest.
 
Thank you for helping out Promestein.
 
Promestein said:
You could say warping the fabric of the universe and it still wouldn't be Low 2-C. You're not necessarily altering and controlling the entire universe at once.
In Discord's case it most certainly would since he goes out of his way to say "all" of reality. And the power of the sisters was sought out by people comparable to the Elements of Harmony. They aren't going low 2-C solely for fabric of reality statements.
 
High 3-A is also stupid

It should just be "At least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C" through scaling to the Elements of Harmony
 
I can try going into detail with my arguments in the next hour or so. But there's no way I'm doing it in the car on my phone.
 
I know we are. That's why I mentioned if in MLP warping the fabric of reality meant Low 2-C for EqG, it should for original MLP as well since they share the same canon and intent unless there is some exception and inconsistency between their definitions of the term 'Reality', which as Light mentioned and I agree with in several scans, there isn't any. Both use 'Reality' constantly to use Universe, and to top it all off is the fact due to 'leaving realities empty and corrupted' means to some capacity they can affect Universes makes it even more likely they are referring to Universe and not just vague reality warping.
 
Promestein said:
High 3-A is also stupid

It should just be "At least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C" through scaling to the Elements of Harmony
I understand that. I just think that the infinite power statements, the fabric of reality statements, and power over all reality/cosmos statements in the finale helps support scaling to the Elements.
 
Did you guys read anything I said? I specifically said I only had an issue with the wording for the Princesses, not that I opposed Low 2-C. Discord being Low 2-C is fine. I supported that. You just need better explanations.
 
Alright then. I shall wait for Light to explain it better, since he has a better grasp over the reasoning than I do regarding the Princesses' Cosmic Ratings.

Also I do agree with Prom with just getting rid of High 3-A and only doing "At least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C"
 
The statements given here are pretty vague, and an argument could be made that they're just flowery. On the last thread I participated in, I thought the High 3-A stuff sounded more Low 2-C anyways.
 
I do agree with Prom here. The whole "infinite power for destruction" + "leaving realities empty and corrupted" both in direct equivalent context always seemed to be a Low 2-C feat to me.
 
Right so, how's this sound:

At least Solar System level (Raises the sun every day, and has done so for over a thousand years. A small part of her power alongside Luna's can control the Sun and Moon), possibly Universe level+ (Comparable to Luna, who momentarily held back the Elements of Harmony. Stated to have an infinite power for Destruction and their power was desired immensely by the Pony of Shadows, who resisted the Elements)
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
You should mention the infinite power for destruction included their awareness of other realities
I know. But when you and Prom said it sounded too stupid I removed it.
 
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