Miside Cosmology: Mita 1-B | 1-A

[Yereks]

Okay, in this thread I want to touch on the power level of the character Mita from the work "Miside"
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Let's start with the foundation on which my thread rests, the main character, while traveling through the versions, gets into the version of the game, which is a visual novel, however, as we know, visual novels are a two-dimensional media format, as the player himself directly declares, saying that he has become two-dimensional
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But what does it mean? When player gets into version 1.1, that is, Mila's world, the main detail is that for Mita, the previous two-dimensional version is just a game. After getting into her version, the player himself says that before that he was in a flat dimension, it is a dimension, it shows that it was a two-dimensional dimension, which the three-dimensional mila considers from the perspective of the game, i.e. fiction
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What does this give us? In this case, we come to the main part of the thread - an Infinite recursive hierarchy. Conda mita shows the player "real life", he gets into the hierarchy, where he first rises, engaged in daily activities , and then turns on the computer, where he sees himself, who also goes to turn on the computer, where he also sees himself, who does the same, thereby getting a recursive hierarchy, where each higher layer considers the lower - as a game, what's is the difference in R>F (we discussed this earlier) However, you may object that the hierarchy is not recursive, since Mita has appeared on one of the floors, but this will not be the case, because when we take out the console from the safe (which is in fact a computer on which our world is just a game) we see that this hierarchy is endless.
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This already gives us a high level of 1-B for the highest layer of the hierarchy, but we can go even further, as we see at the end of the game - our entire game, including this hierarchy, is just a сatridge for Mita, who stands behind the console that broadcasts our game, it turns out that Mita stands above the endless recursive hierarchy with a high 1-B level, which gives us a low 1-A or 1-A power level
CONCLUSION
We have an infinite recursive hierarchy, where each higher layer treats the lower one as fiction, and mad Mita views the entire universe from the perspective of a game/player R/f
Also, I apologize for my English, I used a translator.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[GarrixianXD]

I very much disagree with 1-A. Mita's ability to interact with the real world and bring the player into her universe disqualifies any legitimacy for reality-fiction transcendence. Not to mention seeing a realm as a computer game doesn't suffice for reality-fiction transcendence either.

I can see logic for 1-B but I don't think there is enough solid evidence that an infinite number of these worlds; it was only shown to have a recurring hierarchy of planes of existences, but I don't mind a possibly High 1-B. No Low 1-A though, since you need to demonstrate a mix of transcend and superiority over the entire hierarchy to reach that tier, not simply existing at the apex of the hierarchy.

 

[SweetDao]

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Let's start with the foundation on which my thread rests, the main character, while traveling through the versions, gets into the version of the game, which is a visual novel, however, as we know, visual novels are a two-dimensional media format, as the player himself directly declares, saying that he has become two-dimensional

That much is fine. No because of "the fact that visual novel are two-dimensional" but simply because it's stated as such in game iirc.

But what does it mean? When player gets into version 1.1, that is, Mila's world, the main detail is that for Mita, the previous two-dimensional version is just a game. After getting into her version, the player himself says that before that he was in a flat dimension, it is a dimension, it shows that it was a two-dimensional dimension, which the three-dimensional mila considers from the perspective of the game, i.e. fiction

Yes and no. The fact that one of the version is a "visual novel" isn't enough to give anything substantial. Even if that was the case, it wouldn't give anything more than a dimensional difference, not a qualitative one.

What does this give us? In this case, we come to the main part of the thread - an Infinite recursive hierarchy. Conda mita shows the player "real life", he gets into the hierarchy, where he first rises, engaged in daily activities , and then turns on the computer, where he sees himself, who also goes to turn on the computer, where he also sees himself, who does the same, thereby getting a recursive hierarchy, where each higher layer considers the lower - as a game, what's is the difference in R>F (we discussed this earlier) However, you may object that the hierarchy is not recursive, since Mita has appeared on one of the floors, but this will not be the case, because when we take out the console from the safe (which is in fact a computer on which our world is just a game) we see that this hierarchy is endless.

Indeed, it can be an "endless" recursive hierarchy...except it's a hierarchy of inferiority, not of superiority. Each of the levels are "less real" that the one above, with the baseline being the game world we know. Therefore, you're fundamentally arguing for an 11-C hierarchy (Something I'm fine with, for the record), not anything above. Also, even if we assume the thing was correct (which it isn't) it wouldn't be High 1-B but 1-A+.

This already gives us a high level of 1-B for the highest layer of the hierarchy, but we can go even further, as we see at the end of the game - our entire game, including this hierarchy, is just a сatridge for Mita

This is false, the cartridge just shows the player camera as shown in the beginning of the game or when you open the safe to remove your own cartridge. It doesn't literally contain the game, heck, it's explained CMita want to turn players into a cartridge, not the world.

So yeah, I disagree with the thread and while it's cool to have a hierarchy of inferiority (if it's even accepted as such) I don't think it has any use right now.

 

[SweetDao]

I can see logic for 1-B

Except...that would be the other way around? If the game world is the baseline, "game within game" or "simulation of real life into simulation of real life" would just be lower than the baseline, not upgrading the baseline itself?

 

[Yereks]

I very much disagree with 1-A. Mita's ability to interact with the real world and bring the player into her universe disqualifies any legitimacy for reality-fiction transcendence. Not to mention seeing a realm as a computer game doesn't suffice for reality-fiction transcendence either.

I can see logic for 1-B but I don't think there is enough solid evidence that an infinite number of these worlds; it was only shown to have a recurring hierarchy of planes of existences, but I don't mind a possibly High 1-B. No Low 1-A though, since you need to demonstrate a mix of transcend and superiority over the entire hierarchy to reach that tier, not simply existing at the apex of the hierarchy.

in fact, I understood that 1-A would not work, but I just decided to mention a hypothetical possibility, but as for hierarchy, we can say that recursiveness is a factor of infinity, since recursion implies an infinitely repeating chain, it's just that in the game itself, Mita stopped the player, saving him from an endless chain of similar actions

 

[StrymULTRA]

A lot of this is out of context to the point it ain't even funny.

I'll reply once I get on my PC, some of these are just gross exaggerations ngl.

 

[Yereks]

A lot of this is out of context to the point it ain't even funny.

I'll reply once I get on my PC, some of these are just gross exaggerations ngl.

Okay, I'll be waiting to have a discussion, but I didn't take anything out of context, almost everything I was talking about happens literally in one moment.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Except...that would be the other way around? If the game world is the baseline, "game within game" or "simulation of real life into simulation of real life" would just be lower than the baseline, not upgrading the baseline itself?

Well... your argument would be plausible if there were less than 3 layers (since base reality is 3-D, there can only be 0-2 dimensional layers below it), but there was displayed to be countless of them. Though, this seems to be heavily questionised and I saw the screen that supposedly displayed the countless layers of game-screen are actually security camera footages rather than actual game worlds itself.

Consider me neutral once things are settled for now.

 

[SweetDao]

Well... your argument would be plausible if there were less than 3 layers (since base reality is 3-D, there can only be 0-2 dimensional layers below it)

This is why I take it as a hierarchy of inferiority instead thought that seems ambiguous regardless

 

[Elyartaker]

Neutral on 1-B and possibly High 1-B, but strongly disagree with Low 1-A and 1-A.
A plane of existence being described as a 'video' game is insufficient evidence for R>F or qualitative superiority. Video games themselves can exist within the same level of reality, just on an incredibly smaller scale.

 

[SweetDao]

Well... your argument would be plausible if there were less than 3 layers (since base reality is 3-D, there can only be 0-2 dimensional layers below it)

Also, this (When he's in the "VN") thus making the baseline reality 3D:

 

[BoastJr]

None of this is remotely 1A or even close.

The reason 1A is given out in the first place for stuff like this is because the More Real Reality is Unreachable to the More Fictional Reality if the Fictional reality is the baseline. Ergo if we perceive our reality as Real and a Higher God sees our reality as fiction whilst being unreachable to us then there is atleast some form of argument to be discussed.

I also disagree with 1-B unless the lowest part of the hierarchy can be proven to be relative to ours.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

11-C.

Leave it or take it.

 

[Voidnether]

11-C.

Leave it or take it.

So real.

 

[StrymULTRA]

━━━━━━━━━━ scan 1 ━━━━━━━━━
Let's start with the foundation on which my thread rests, the main character, while traveling through the versions, gets into the version of the game, which is a visual novel, however, as we know, visual novels are a two-dimensional media format, as the player himself directly declares, saying that he has become two-dimensional
━━━━━━━━━ scan 2 ━━━━━━━━━━
But what does it mean? When player gets into version 1.1, that is, Mila's world, the main detail is that for Mita, the previous two-dimensional version is just a game. After getting into her version, the player himself says that before that he was in a flat dimension, it is a dimension, it shows that it was a two-dimensional dimension, which the three-dimensional mila considers from the perspective of the game, i.e. fiction

That's cool and all, but the main thing is that the Player himself is 3D too, he literally started as such.

Plus the thing being qualitatively inferior is definitely a no-no because the 3D Crazy Mita could perfectly enter in that world without problems, even calling it flast and shit while she was still 3D.

Not to mention that the Player accessed MiSide also from literally being sucked inside his phone, and MiSide itself at a point was supposed to perfectly mimick the Real World, meaning that whatever R>F thing you plan to get from here just... doesn't exist.

━━━━━━━━ scan 3 ━━━━━━━━━━━
What does this give us? In this case, we come to the main part of the thread - an Infinite recursive hierarchy. Conda mita shows the player "real life", he gets into the hierarchy, where he first rises, engaged in daily activities , and then turns on the computer, where he sees himself, who also goes to turn on the computer, where he also sees himself, who does the same, thereby getting a recursive hierarchy, where each higher layer considers the lower - as a game, what's is the difference in R>F (we discussed this earlier) However, you may object that the hierarchy is not recursive, since Mita has appeared on one of the floors, but this will not be the case, because when we take out the console from the safe (which is in fact a computer on which our world is just a game) we see that this hierarchy is endless.


━━━━━━━━scan 4 ━━━━━━━━━━━
This already gives us a high level of 1-B for the highest layer of the hierarchy, but we can go even further, as we see at the end of the game - our entire game, including this hierarchy, is just a сatridge for Mita, who stands behind the console that broadcasts our game, it turns out that Mita stands above the endless recursive hierarchy with a high 1-B level, which gives us a low 1-A or 1-A power level

L O L

The first clip in Scan 3 is literally just an eerie way to reference how the Player's life in the Real World is repetitive and monotone, as he does the exact same stuff every day for over 2 years, not literally telling that he lives in whatever hierarchy (also because to claim that he's a higher-dimensional being is indeed a big statement, especially when he calls being 3D his normal state).

Second one in Scan 3 is literally just the Player's POV looping in itself... You literally see every time we play anything that it uses our POV even when we're playing "ourselves", especially when we see a catridge playing (which BTW is just a Player being turned in a console and not an entire reality contained in a game like you're saying).

For reference, the second is from the ending you see when the Player sees his own catridge in a second walkthrough, given he becomes one at the end of the first one after all. Aka you're just seeing the funi effect you see when two mirrors face each other, given that we're seeing a screen that uses our POV, making thus the chain of POVs, rather than literally this endless transcendence chain you're implying lol.

 

[Agnaa]

Well... your argument would be plausible if there were less than 3 layers (since base reality is 3-D, there can only be 0-2 dimensional layers below it), but there was displayed to be countless of them. Though, this seems to be heavily questionised and I saw the screen that supposedly displayed the countless layers of game-screen are actually security camera footages rather than actual game worlds itself.

Consider me neutral once things are settled for now.

These aren't literal lower spacial dimensions, they're quantitative differences. The "game within the game" is not literally 1-D. There is no limit on how far downwards this can extend. You should not dismiss that argument for that reason.

Hell, even if they were literal spacial dimensions, I'd be kinda sympathetic to the idea that cosmologies can use whatever bullshit they want, and we just have to try to accommodate it; that happened back when SCP declared that there was a whole number between 5 and 6, and that a character embodied that many dimensions.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Heavily Disagree, that's like saying IRL humans are 1-A because we view video games as fiction.

 

[Livinaa]

Plus the thing being qualitatively inferior is definitely a no-no because the 3D Crazy Mita could perfectly enter in that world without problems, even calling it flast and shit while she was still 3D.

Not to mention that the Player accessed MiSide also from literally being sucked inside his phone, and MiSide itself at a point was supposed to perfectly mimick the Real World, meaning that whatever R>F thing you plan to get from here just... doesn't exist.

Wasn't it implied that the base reality where the MC came from is actually already a cartridge? The entire game is about Crazy Mita playing with the MC, pretending to "pull" him inside the game and turning him into a cartridge, yet the base reality where he came from is already a game/cartridge for Crazy Mita. So not really an antifeat since everything, including the base reality, is a game for Crazy Mita.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wasn't it implied that the base reality where the MC came from is actually already a cartridge? The entire game is about Crazy Mita playing with the MC, pretending to "pull" him inside the game and turning him into a cartridge, yet the base reality where he came from is already a game/cartridge for Crazy Mita. So not really an antifeat since everything, including the base reality, is a game for Crazy Mita.

...no.

1. The catridges ain't even fictional, they literally show events in real-time, with Kind Mita later on saying that Crazy Mita can be busy with other players while our playable one is trapped.
2. The Player wasn't a catridge "since the start", he was himself at least at the time of him meeting Cappie, which I strongly believe it happened at the "Reboot" chapter, given that Kind Mita says that Crazy Mita can reboot memories of cartridge-players, similar to how Mitas "reboot" and lose memories when they get killed.

 

[Livinaa]

1. The Player wasn't a catridge "since the start", he was himself at least at the time of him meeting Cappie, which I strongly believe it happened at the "Reboot" chapter, given that Kind Mita says that Crazy Mita can reboot memories of cartridge-players, similar to how Mitas "reboot" and lose memories when they get killed.

The moment you start playing the game, Crazy Mita already interacted with the MC in the base reality through the tutorial. It says "TUTORIAL : WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO TEACH YOU THE ROPES?" with the "ME" referring to Crazy Mita.

There's also the sound of inserting cartridge when you play the first time, but I'm not really sure since I've never played the game itself. This one i found from the MiSide community.

There's probably more hints of the MC's base reality already being a game/cartridge, but the first one about the tutorial is pretty solid.

 

[SweetDao]

Me when 4th wall breaking and funny gimmicky tutorial (it's 1-A)

 

[StrymULTRA]

The moment you start playing the game, Crazy Mita already interacted with the MC in the base reality through the tutorial. It says "TUTORIAL : WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO TEACH YOU THE ROPES?" with the "ME" referring to Crazy Mita.

Powerscalers when the 4th wall break is just a 4th wall break:

There's also the sound of inserting cartridge when you play the first time, but I'm not really sure since I've never played the game itself. This one i found from the MiSide community.

Huh?

There's probably more hints of the MC's base reality already being a game/cartridge

That shit isn't R>F anyway for reasons I already told above (even if you're right).

 

[Livinaa]

Me when 4th wall breaking and funny gimmicky tutorial (it's 1-A)

I don't think it's just a gimmick though, since every subtle hints in the game is part of the plot. Otherwise Mita looking at your choices would just be a gimmick too.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think it's just a gimmick though, since every subtle hints in the game is part of the plot. Otherwise Mita looking at your choices would just be a gimmick too.

It kinda is tho?

 

[SweetDao]

I don't think it's just a gimmick though, since every subtle hints in the game is part of the plot. Otherwise Mita looking at your choices would just be a gimmick too.

So, the world of the MC is already within the game, but she needs to purposely bring the MC inside it, do something weird to him (never explained?) and slowly turn him into a cartridge, when he was already inside the game.

Yeah no, maybe from an outsider point of view, there is R>F going on, but if you do play the game, you'll see it's not possible.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The game ain't even Meta lmaoz. Y'all really watch it on YT.

 

[GarrixianXD]

These aren't literal lower spacial dimensions, they're quantitative differences. The "game within the game" is not literally 1-D. There is no limit on how far downwards this can extend. You should not dismiss that argument for that reason.

Hell, even if they were literal spacial dimensions, I'd be kinda sympathetic to the idea that cosmologies can use whatever bullshit they want, and we just have to try to accommodate it; that happened back when SCP declared that there was a whole number between 5 and 6, and that a character embodied that many dimensions.

Well, it is been implied the lower game is a -1 dimension than the real world since games are referred to as a "flat world", as if the real world is from a 3-D perspective. However, you are right that there is no limit to how far downward a hierarchy can drop; I concede.

Looking back into the game, the difference the layers of game worlds of MiSide doesn't seem to be treated as legitimate +1 dimensional superiority, and all game worlds are existentially treated as the same, as if they were simply different realms in the same planes of existence, with no superiority over the other.

 

[Lilixa]

Regarding infinite recursive hierarchy thing you can still be 3D and achieve similar effect like that.

Btw how do we treat multiple version of the game in this miside context ? Does each version actually timeline ? Personally i dont think so, also regarding size of room or just some strange corridor or abstract place i don't see anything impressive about those stuff.

 

[SweetDao]

Btw how do we treat multiple version of the game in this miside context ? Does each version actually timeline ? Personally i dont think so, also regarding size of room or just some strange corridor or abstract place i don't see anything impressive about those stuff.

Nah, at least not for now unless someone make strong argument for it. Right now the verse is just a High 3-A space filled with building sized realms

 

[Darkmon_cns]

If say in a simulated universe, someone made a simulation. I would not say the second simulation is less.rral then the first. Both could be pin pointed on the baseline reality on what hardware is being used to simulate each, the first simulated world only sent a single to the real world to simulate that other simulation, the computer in the simulated world is not actually simulating anything as it's already digital. So I'd disagree both with infinte regression and tracendence unless you want to claim none of the games are Os and 1s and are actually other realitys like the digital world from digimon