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Mio Takamiya revision to multiversal (staff needed)

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(This post has been edited with a complete reformat because I need a scan...)

Alright fellas, this will be pretty complex, but bear with me here.

The only thing we need to prove that Mio is multiversal is to somehow prove that Mio can be present and actually do something in a different universe, as if she can do something or even just be present in a different universe, then Mio can do Ain on it, destroying the universe.

As @KaramcaS pointed out, low multiversal requires a 4-D universe, but that should not be a problem in any way as I would say that Mio already affects a 4-D space, for that you can either calculate a regular universe + the concept of time or time in a specific place because Ain can destroy that too (1), or you can calculate a regular universe, and the Spirit dimension that appears when she is in the world.

But first, before we go anywhere else, we need a baseline understanding of what Ain can actually do, because it doesn't seem to be properly explained on her VSBattles wiki page.

Basically, Ain can delete anything, anyone, regardless of resistances or enemy strength or whatever else you have to possibly block this. I would say this basically translates to infinite AP straight out the gate, since it just... instantly deletes anything. Please take note of the phrasing of this scan:

4uJKMP6.jpeg


The "ignores all laws" is the big one here, since resistances would count as laws, as well as basically anything else. The law of gravity, for instance. That's specifically a law, but in the context of Date a Live, it's a bit more... meta. Basically, in DaL, a law seems to be anything related to logic or any sense of how the universe works. In this scan, the phrasing is again a bit finicky, but here it seems that logic and laws are interchangeable:

0cx0Iyl.jpeg


OK, now that we have the easy part done, defining what Ain can do, we have the hard part of figuring out how Mio can be multiversal. And it all boils down to one specific other character: Beast.

Beast is basically an alternate timeline's version of Tohka, who went insane and killed all the other Spirits after Shido died in her timeline. In Volume 22 of the LN, Shido manages to get into Beast's timeline with her tenth sword and talk to her, where Beast says:

Pn7mFAP.png


So, why is this important, and how does this tie in with Mio? Let's look at the facts:
  • Tohka herself and all Spirit power directly comes from Mio
  • That includes Beast, who is alternate timeline Tohka
  • Beast can go into a different timeline or universe using her tenth sword
  • Beast can choose to go back to current Shido's timeline
  • In this case, timelines directly correspond to different universes, where different events happen, since current Shido isn't affected by past Shido being dead

This means that Mio, who has all the power of the Spirits, including Tohka and Beast's tenth sword, should be able to go to different universes, and since Beast, and by extension, Mio, can actually do things in those universes, that means Mio can go into a different universe and use Ain on it, which would make Mio multiversal.

(Edit 2, oops, discord image links don't work, facepalm)
 
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Hi, you need scans to do a CRT, otherwise it will not be accepted.
 
OK, will definitely do that. I'll add scans and flesh out my argument a bit further sometime next week, as I'm typing on my phone right now and tomorrow I'm busy.
 
For something like Low Multiversal Attack Potency or Striking Strength, the character needs to be able to affect more than one 4-D Universe at the same time
 
(Edit 2, oops, discord image links don't work, facepalm)
Does the verse explain further on what ignoring logic encompasses ? I can see it includes the laws of physics, but I want to know if it’s more encompassing than that.

I can see a possibly though, only because it doesn’t directly spell it out and VSBW tends to rely on it being spelled out
 
Does the verse explain further on what ignoring logic encompasses ? I can see it includes the laws of physics, but I want to know if it’s more encompassing than that.

I can see a possibly though, only because it doesn’t directly spell it out and VSBW tends to rely on it being spelled out
I'll look into this, but I believe this is the most extant explanation of Ain in the books. It's used in the anime too, worded similarly, I believe. If we don't have enough information, we take this literally, right?
 
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@The_2nd_Existential_Seed there is an image from the anime in which Mio specifically states that Ain can destroy everything:

k3LdsNH.jpeg


The author also confirms this:

6HWZsFM.jpeg


(Edit: replace imgur embeds with image embeds)
 
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Ain? If Ain can delete anything, as is stated by both Mio and the author of DaL, there should be enough AP there.
That's not enough. Generally statements like "Destroy/delete/erase everything" don't mean much without heavy supporting context
 
That's not enough. Generally statements like "Destroy/delete/erase everything" don't mean much without heavy supporting context
So, what more supporting context would you think is required here? I would think that an explanation from the author on how this ability works should be final?
 
So, what more supporting context would you think is required here? I would think that an explanation from the author on how this ability works should be final?
There's also the claim in the novel and the DAL guides that Ain is capable of erasing "all existence," and Scott was going to destroy the entirety of "the world" if Qemetiel (Ain's opposite, but just as strong) got out of control. And we know that "world" can mean the cosmos, creation, or the entirety of everything in existence. Given the many claims that Ain can erase all existence, I feel like it makes a lot of sense to take "world" to mean the entirety of all existence. That is, Ain could destroy all existence if not handled properly. I started a thread about this a few months ago but abandoned it due to study issues. Anyway, given these two new pieces of evidence you present in this thread, it will probably be accepted more easily.
 
Although I do not consider that Ain should be scaled to the entire cosmology, I think that at least it should be scaled to the neighboring world and the universe.
 
Although I do not consider that Ain should be scaled to the entire cosmology, I think that at least it should be scaled to the neighboring world and the universe.
I would consider the "everything" to be interpreted absolutely, just as it appears to be in Flandre's wiki page. Honestly we've got some double standards here when we can accept that Flan's claims of being able to destroy anything with whatever "eyes" are easier accepted than Mio's claims of being able to do the same thing while at the same time being basically the God of her universe instead of another random side character as in Touhou.
 
Yeah, um, I'm sorry, but I agree with Hades. You can probably get some really good hax for her though, but you'd need to prove their intentions with the wording, like heavy sub context (or better, direct context) like what they intend the definition of 'everything' to be and include.


'Everything', 'Omnipotent', 'Anything' are almost always used as exaggeration and not what the actual definition of the word is, and even then if it's contradicted it's uaually written off. It's why characters who normally would be way higher are assumed otherwise, because a claim like that needs explicit proof they intend that definition to the word, not even adding a 'literally' will help because it still requries proof of what 'everything' and other such terms are defined as, and needs to not be contradicted within that series.
 
'Everything', 'Omnipotent', 'Anything' are almost always used as exaggeration and not what the actual definition of the word is, and even then if it's contradicted it's uaually written off.
In this case, I would say we have enough times the same thing has been confirmed, even if it's without a specific feat. I would say that if the author, outside of writing in the book itself, states that 'the Angel of Death who kills everything' in that Twitter post, and it is corresponded multiple times (at least 3 times), it should be taken literally? And I would agree that generally, this would not be an airtight argument for most characters, but here, I would think we have enough evidence to take this literally. As obviously, Mio would not have a feat for this since it would basically end the series.
 
I do agree with a possibly/likely, only because VSBW likes this kind of thing to be spelled out so anyone can understand it. If the all of existence statement is legitimate though a credible source aware of the cosmology, You likely won't need a 'likely' or 'possibly' at all, just scale them to the cosmology.
In this case, I would say we have enough times the same thing has been confirmed, even if it's without a specific feat. I would say that if the author, outside of writing in the book itself, states that 'the Angel of Death who kills everything' in that Twitter post, and it is corresponded multiple times (at least 3 times), it should be taken literally? And I would agree that generally, this would not be an airtight argument for most characters, but here, I would think we have enough evidence to take this literally. As obviously, Mio would not have a feat for this since it would basically end the series.
 
I do agree with a possibly/likely, only because VSBW likes this kind of thing to be spelled out so anyone can understand it. If the all of existence statement is legitimate though a credible source aware of the cosmology, You likely won't need a 'likely' or 'possibly' at all, just scale them to the cosmology.
Yeah, I would think that the author of DaL counts as a credible source?
 
No. This is just another case of using NLF to exaggerate Ain's capabilities. You should stop taking words at face-value and start evaluating the author's intention & narrative. And before anyone reply to this, the world does not mean the entire multiverse/cosmology, its consistently used to refer the universe.

This whole thread is basically nothing but saying that since Ain was stated to be capable of erasing everything, it should be able to literally erase the whole cosmology without the idea ever being touched upon.

Also the OP is straight out wrong, being able to travel into another universe/timeline and destroy it doesnt mean it translates to multiversal. You'd actually need to be able to destroy two or more universes at the same time, not one by one.
 
No. This is just another case of using NLF to exaggerate Ain's capabilities. You should stop taking words at face-value and start evaluating the author's intention & narrative.
(spoilers)
Well, from the sources in the book, anime, and the author's own words, it seems like the author intended to make Mio a sort of unbeatable force.

The whole point of Season 5 was that you can't overpower Mio, the Spirits all tried and failed, so did Shido. But everything they tried on her got shrugged off, I mean the best they could do was give her a scratch. So in this context, I can definitely see how Ain being able to destroy the universe would be plausible (and I don't think it would be too far of a leap to say that it could delete the whole cosmology for the same reasons).
 
UPDATE: I have two more scans which confirm that Ain can "erase any object from existence entirely" and "extinguish all of existence", but I'm currently waiting to get them verified (although we shouldn't need any more because we already have lots).
 
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hZCRtm9.png


7mKg3at.png


I think this is enough textual evidence, honestly. If there are so many places in which basically the same thing is said about Ain - in that it can delete all existence, or "everything" (both in-universe in the form of character dialogue and outside universe in the form of statements by the author), then maybe we should just take this as a fact? And I would take this as Ain being able to destroy the whole cosmology as it says "extinguish all of existence", and it makes sense in context of the story, as Mio is supposed to be an unstoppable force and basically the God of the DaL verse (especially WotW Mio, but that would be a separate scale).
 
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