Minor Goku CRT: Something's Wrong With His 9-A Rating

[Flashlight237]

So, there's an issue with Goku's weakest key here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball)

The tier and justifications listed are as such:

At least Small Building level+ (Can smash apart wood, crush boulders in his hands, destroy cars, and in chapter 3 he one-shotted a large bear. Exactly 10 times weaker than his Oozaru form)

That's just wrong. If we go off the "Exactly 10 times weaker than his Oozaru form" deal, then Goku scale to around 0.4 tons of TNT, which is 8-C (Building level), though in the CRT bringing that part up, I think it was accepted that power levels aren't linear, so that justification is thrown out the window. This also means we'd have to look at the other justifications. The best calc'd feat Goku has is 48.4 MJ (0.011 tons of TNT), and the lack of scans for the wood thing means we don't know if Goku destroyed literal trees or not. You need to have a power level of 533.46 MJ to be Small Building level+! The calcs section of the Dragon Ball verse page doesn't even list a 9-A+ calc, even!

So yeah, Pilaf Saga Goku needs to be fixed.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Oozaru was accepted as a 10x multiplier so that’s just downscaling 10x power levels don’t really matter here

 

[Flashlight237]

Oozaru was accepted as a 10x multiplier so that’s just downscaling 10x power levels don’t really matter here

Okay, but what I'm trying to get at here is how the eff did nobody do anything about Goku's 9-A rating even after the fact?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

You're correct that power levels by their lonesome don't scale linearly

Multipliers, on the other hand, do

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Okay, but what I'm trying to get at here is how the eff did nobody do anything about Goku's 9-A rating even after the fact?

I have no idea what ur asking

 

[SlendVeny]

I honestly don't like his Oozaru form being H8C, because I'm pretty sure it killing Grandpa Gohan was never shown.

 

[Flashlight237]

I honestly don't like his Oozaru form being H8C, because I'm pretty sure it killing Grandpa Gohan was never shown.

Eh, Goku literally realized that it was him as an Oozaru that killed Grandpa Gohan after Raditz explained to Goku how the Oozaru transformation worked (and why Grandpa Gohan told Goku not to look up at the full moon at night).

 

[SlendVeny]

Eh, Goku literally realized that it was him as an Oozaru that killed Grandpa Gohan after Raditz explained to Goku how the Oozaru transformation worked (and why Grandpa Gohan told Goku not to look up at the full moon at night).

Yeah, but what if GG was asleep though

 

[Fezzih_007]

Eh, Goku literally realized that it was him as an Oozaru that killed Grandpa Gohan after Raditz explained to Goku how the Oozaru transformation worked (and why Grandpa Gohan told Goku not to look up at the full moon at night).

It was Vegeta that explained, not Raditz.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Eh, Goku literally realized that it was him as an Oozaru that killed Grandpa Gohan after Raditz explained to Goku how the Oozaru transformation worked (and why Grandpa Gohan told Goku not to look up at the full moon at night).

So what are your contentions with 9-A+ goku? Since it seemed to be just a misunderstanding

 

[AceOfSpaces3709]

So what are your contentions with 9-A+ goku? Since it seemed to be just a misunderstanding

I think what Flashlight is trying to ask is where does Pilaf Saga Goku's 9-A+ rating come from? What does he scale to? Why isn't he 8-C considering the Oozaru multiplier was accepted?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why isn't he 8-C considering the Oozaru multiplier was accepted?

They miscalculated his downscaling, it happens to the best of us

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Ah so the downscaling is miscalculated and should be 8-C and not 9-A+?

I think what Flashlight is trying to ask is where does Pilaf Saga Goku's 9-A+ rating come from? What does he scale to? Why isn't he 8-C considering the Oozaru multiplier was accepted?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I brought it up in the High 8-C revision thread (and it was agreed upon) but I think people forgot to apply it

Yeah Pilaf Saga Goku should be 1/10 of Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku (which would be 8-C), and 21st Budokai Oozaru Goku should be 10x 21st Budokai Goku (so 8-B).

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I brought it up in the High 8-C revision thread (and it was agreed upon) but I think people forgot to apply it

Yeah Pilaf Saga Goku should be 1/10 of Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku (which would be 8-C), and 21st Budokai Oozaru Goku should be 10x 21st Budokai Goku (so 8-B).

I just realized that 21st Budokai Goku is rated as 8-C when he should be High 8-C since I don't think he gains a power boost at all between him getting his tail back and training under Korin.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Yeah Pilaf Saga Goku should be 1/10 of Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku (which would be 8-C), and 21st Budokai Oozaru Goku should be 10x 21st Budokai Goku (so 8-B).

Or 22nd Budokai Oozaru Goku being Moon level+, which makes Piccolo saga Goku Moon level+ by absorbing the Oozaru state into base form

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Or 22nd Budokai Oozaru Goku being Moon level+, which makes Piccolo saga Goku Moon level+ by absorbing the Oozaru state into base form

Whaaa Fr? W’SSSS

 

[SlendVeny]

Or 22nd Budokai Oozaru Goku being Moon level+, which makes Piccolo saga Goku Moon level+ by absorbing the Oozaru state into base form

IIRC that was with one specific attack, and it might have just been a metaphor.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Or 22nd Budokai Oozaru Goku being Moon level+, which makes Piccolo saga Goku Moon level+ by absorbing the Oozaru state into base form

Does the Daizenshu state that's the case? Because I'm not too sure if that's applicable (it would be sick if it was).

 

[Jason_Courne]

Whaaa Fr? W’SSSS

IIRC that was with one specific attack, and it might have just been a metaphor.

Does the Daizenshu state that's the case? Because I'm not too sure if that's applicable (it would be sick if it was).

The Divine Water draws out any and all hidden strength within a person (The Oozaru state is considered Goku's "hidden power"), which is repeatedly depicted as Goku having the power of an Oozaru in his base form

It's also consistent with him casually oneshot killing Drum, who easily overpowered Tien and was considered way above Tien's strength, and explains the significant jump from Goku not even comparing older weaker King Piccolo, to fighting on par with Prime King Piccolo

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

The Divine Water draws out any and all hidden strength within a person (The Oozaru state is considered Goku's "hidden power"), which is repeatedly depicted as Goku having the power of an Oozaru in his base form

It's also consistent with him casually oneshot killing Drum, who easily overpowered Tien and was considered way above Tien's strength, and explains the significant jump from Goku not even comparing older weaker King Piccolo, to fighting on par with Prime King Piccolo

Now that's hot. Surprised that the Oozaru multiplier might actually come in handy.

So 5-C+ for anyone on par with or above Post-Divine Water Goku. I think the only other changes this brings would be making Saiyan Saga Krillin Low 5-B.

Might have to make a separate CRT to get this accepted.

 

[SlendVeny]

The Divine Water draws out any and all hidden strength within a person (The Oozaru state is considered Goku's "hidden power"), which is repeatedly depicted as Goku having the power of an Oozaru in his base form

It's also consistent with him casually oneshot killing Drum, who easily overpowered Tien and was considered way above Tien's strength, and explains the significant jump from Goku not even comparing older weaker King Piccolo, to fighting on par with Prime King Piccolo

This >>>>>>>>

Here for the Raditz hype.

 

[Jason_Courne]

I think the only other changes this brings would be making Saiyan Saga Krillin Low 5-B

That and Oozaru Gohan would scale on the extremely high end of Small Planet level (but not quite Low 5-B+)

 

[Huesito88]

Actually now that I'm thinking about it why didn't anyone ever try to use Tien's splitting himself in 4 for a upgrade

 

[SlendVeny]

That and Oozaru Gohan would scale on the extremely high end of Small Planet level (but not quite Low 5-B+)

Piccolo as well. And Yajirobe.

Actually now that I'm thinking about it why didn't anyone ever try to use Tien's splitting himself in 4 for a upgrade

Who scales to 1/4 Tien?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

That and Oozaru Gohan would scale on the extremely high end of Small Planet level (but not quite Low 5-B+)

Oh yeah, 17 Zettatons Oozaru Gohan.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Bumpo

 

[Jason_Courne]

Oh right, Pilaf Saga Goku should downscale 10x his Oozaru state's speed, since it's implied the Oozaru state is also a speed multiplier, making him Supersonic in base form
Inversely his Oozaru LS needs to be reworked to include the 10x amp (At least Class K during Pilaf saga, Class M during 21st Budokai)

 

[SlendVeny]

Oh right, Pilaf Saga Goku should downscale 10x his Oozaru state's speed, since it's implied the Oozaru state is also a speed multiplier, making him Supersonic in base form
Inversely his Oozaru LS needs to be reworked to include the 10x amp (At least Class K during Pilaf saga, Class M during 21st Budokai)

Oozaru is a speed and LS boost, but not a perfect 10x.

 

[Therefir]

Goku should be upgraded from 9-A+ to 8-C at the very least.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Oozaru is a speed and LS boost, but not a perfect 10x.

If it’s a speed amp and a 10x multiplier why wouldn’t it be 10x?

Goku should be upgraded from 9-A+ to 8-C at the very least.

Yeah

 

[Nierre]

The Divine Water draws out any and all hidden strength within a person (The Oozaru state is considered Goku's "hidden power"), which is repeatedly depicted as Goku having the power of an Oozaru in his base form

It's also consistent with him casually oneshot killing Drum, who easily overpowered Tien and was considered way above Tien's strength, and explains the significant jump from Goku not even comparing older weaker King Piccolo, to fighting on par with Prime King Piccolo

You... you actually cooking with this.. wow

 

[SlendVeny]

If it’s a speed amp and a 10x multiplier why wouldn’t it be 10x?

It's a 10x POWER multiplier. Why would it be 10x speed?

 

[AerrowStorm1]

....Personally, shouldn't it be more like he can tap into the power of the Oozaru in base form, not that he has it all the time? Seeing as with Penetrate, he was losing the fight until he used it and with the others, the same argument could be made.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Personally, shouldn't it be more like he can tap into the power of the Oozaru in base form, not that he has it all the time?

It wouldn't make sense for him to only tap into that power for brief moments, when the Divine Water was meant to unlock his full hidden power

Goku was only losing against Piccolo because Goku basically let himself get crippled, he sorta held an advantage in their fight otherwise

 

[AerrowStorm1]

It wouldn't make sense for him to only tap into that power for brief moments, when the Divine Water was meant to unlock his full hidden power

Goku was only losing against Piccolo because Goku basically let himself get crippled, he sorta held an advantage in their fight otherwise

Ehh...... So at the start of the fight, Goku does really well, tossing him around and tanking his blows. But then he states King Piccolo is holding back and it goes into a more even fight with Goku at best "pushing him back little by little" because he was outlasting Piccolo (who had said his full power was rapidly draining his life) before he got crippled. Then King Piccolo goes through another powerup after crippling Goku, growing in size and unleashing a blast that would have killed Goku had he not been saved by Tien and then his Flying Nimbus.

That's when he gets the rest of his limbs crippled and resorts to Penetrate. The next chapter preview title even refers to him tapping into the Great Ape's power for this attack, which doesn't really make sense if he was using it all fight "The Power of the Great Ape"

Like, narratively speaking, it's supposed to be this last ditch, all or nothing, dig into power you didn't know you had in reserve to win move, and it also doesn't make sense narratively for Goku to suddenly jump up from stalemating with a small advantage over Piccolo, to being dominated and needing rescue, to punching through him unless he did tap into it. He and Piccolo both stated he was running on fumes before Penetrate as well.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Actually, looking at the Popo fight, it has similar context. Goku goes from fighting normally to telling Popo he's going ALL OUT, and after going all out, we once more see him pull off the Oozaru punch (though Popo dodges it) implying the Oozaru punch is something he taps into when his full power fails

To add to that, before the Oozaru Punch/Penetrate, Popo repeatedly mocks Goku as weak, but after it, he says Goku has "Incredible power but doesn't use it well".


I don't know. I feel like, if he's always walking around with Oozaru power, the narrative wouldn't highlight those moments as so important.

 

[Therefir]

This is really not the thread for that.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

This is really not the thread for that.

Perfectly valid, stopping.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It's a 10x POWER multiplier. Why would it be 10x speed?

It’s a 10x multiplier for your overall ki and even if you said it’s just for BP BP just detects how much ki you have larger ki = higher strength, speed, durability, etc. this was literally accepted in the Oozaru and Bojack crt