Minor God of Highschool revision CRT.

[Maitreya12]

Ok so this was brought to my attention in another topic and I think this needs to be addressed and revised. Credit to @azontr fie the help as well.

The vs battle wiki standard has Mori already 52x stronger than Satan right when the battle initially starts and before Satan’s own amp. This is not true and needs to be revised.

In every instance of Mori and Satan clashing, they are depicted as being completely evenly matched with one another. Satan has made Mori bleed multiple times pre amp and has matched Mori. This would not be the case if Mori was already dozens of times stronger than Satan before the battle even started

The reasoning for Mori being 52x stronger than Satan in the first place was due to him initially dominating Satan. However, the only times Mori decimated Satan were when Mori was Mori was fighting Satan’s clones which do not scale to the original owner. And even then Mori used amps and stat enhancers to destroy the clones as well. Mori is consistently is shown to be able to decimate the clones however him and Satan are shown to be consistently evenly matched throughout the fight when in base to base.

Furthemore once Satan actually uses the 52x amp, he proceeds to dominate Mori in the fight. breaking Yeoui and slicing Geundoowun in half as well as destroying the gourd bottle and then pounding down on Mori until the rebound hits in, which at that point Satan still is shown matching Mori in strength, even when the rebound hits. This wouldn’t make sense if Mori was already 52x stronger than Satan as the 52x amp Satan received wouldn’t allow him to decimate Mori in the way he did.

Thus, the standard of Mori being 52x Satan at the start of the battle needs to be revised and changed. This would change their durability rating to simply large star level each and the part of Satan’s ribs being crushed by Mori needs to be removed from Satan’s durability profile as that was a clone and not the original Satan.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I set up the verse specifically to avoid stuff like this because in the grand scheme of things, the scaling doesn't make sense. Yeoui is 4-B in durability. There is no way in hell Satan could have broken Yeoui and scaled to it without creating a functional scaling loop. If you read the page you'd see the note I left explaining why shattering Yeoui isn't a feat.

Also your argument doesn't even make sense. You want Mori to be 4-C in base without thinking of the implication that Satan would have one-shot after the 52x amp. And even if we assume base Mori is High 4-C only in dura, then the other Ragnarok Gods scale from harming him, which would in turn scale to Satan because he's the strongest of the Gods.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Like the only logical way to scale them is to assume that Mori was already High 4-C when he left the Heavenly Realm. This tracks for a number of reasons:

1) He's considered the strongest in the main cast and throughout the entirety of the Heavenly Realm, he was unmatched.

2) He cloned himself when he fought the Ragnarok Gods, which means it can be assumed he was at their level. The moment he reduced the number of clones, he stomped them.

3) Mori already being High 4-C would account for tanking the 52x amp Satan did without the dumb scaling loop.

4) Satan's cloning is way more powerful than Mori's and each clone is likely on his level of power. This makes Mori one-shotting them make more sense than them being weak.

The way I see it, Satan harming Mori prior to the 52x amp can either be chalked up to PIS or Martial Arts amping.

 

[Kachon123]

Following.

 

[azontr]

Following as well.

I don't necessarily agree even if I did help provide scans, but I don't particularly disagree either, so I'm currently neutral on the revision.

 

[Maitreya12]

I set up the verse specifically to avoid stuff like this because in the grand scheme of things, the scaling doesn't make sense. Yeoui is 4-B in durability. There is no way in hell Satan could have broken Yeoui and scaled to it without creating a functional scaling loop. If you read the page you'd see the note I left explaining why shattering Yeoui isn't a feat.

Also your argument doesn't even make sense. You want Mori to be 4-C in base without thinking of the implication that Satan would have one-shot after the 52x amp. And even if we assume base Mori is High 4-C only in dura, then the other Ragnarok Gods scale from harming him, which would in turn scale to Satan because he's the strongest of the Gods.

Like the only logical way to scale them is to assume that Mori was already High 4-C when he left the Heavenly Realm. This tracks for a number of reasons:

1) He's considered the strongest in the main cast and throughout the entirety of the Heavenly Realm, he was unmatched.

2) He cloned himself when he fought the Ragnarok Gods, which means it can be assumed he was at their level. The moment he reduced the number of clones, he stomped them.

3) Mori already being High 4-C would account for tanking the 52x amp Satan did without the dumb scaling loop.

4) Satan's cloning is way more powerful than Mori's and each clone is likely on his level of power. This makes Mori one-shotting them make more sense than them being weak.

The way I see it, Satan harming Mori prior to the 52x amp can either be chalked up to PIS or Martial Arts amping.

Ok there are a number of issues I see with this and a lot of points you bring up aren’t really indicative of invalidating Satan’s feats or scaling.

So first off, I’m not arguing that Mori is 4C. Like you said it makes perfect sense that Mori is high 4C when he leaves the heavenly realm. It’s just that Satan is also high 4C when he fights Mori. This makes perfect sense since Satan himself scales above the combined Jupiter feat which is a high 4C feat and only becomes regular 4C when the results are split in two. It’s also important to note that when Satan preformed his Jupiter feat, he was in phase 1 (no wings and horns), but when he fights Mori, he’s in phase 2 (wings and horns) which is of course an amp and was done before the 52x boost. So even if you don’t like base Satan scaling to high 4C, phase 2 Satan certainly does which is before his 52x amp. Furthermore when you multiply the high 4C results from the Jupiter feat by 52, you get a near baseline to above baseline solar system level depending on which end you’re using. So it is kind of consistent of Satan being able to break Yeoui with the multiplier.

If you are going to dismiss that Satan is equal to Mori base to base then you’d have to disregard not just multiple upon multiple feats showcasing them being equal, but entire chapters as well directly showcasing Mori and Satan being relative to each other in strength.

There is also zero evidence Satan’s clones are superior in relative power compared to the original to Mori’s clones. Quite the contrary in fact, since repeatedly those clones are depicted as getting completely decimated by Mori but original Satan is shown perfectly contending with that same Mori. Satan can just make more of those clones then Mori can, there’s no evidence each individual clone is relatively stronger compared to the user than Mori’s cloning ability.

Oh and as for the notion that Mori would be one shot by Satan if they were equal and he multiplied his strength by 52, that just means Mori can rank hits way higher than his pay grade without getting one shot. This is entirely and 100% consistent with Mori since on a constant basis he’s shown contending with people who severely outstat him without going down. (Mubong, Dean with armor suits, and now Satan as well). Which was the whole point of that previous topic I mentioned before.

So there really doesn’t seem to be an issue with at bare minimum phase 2 Satan scaling to high 4C when his base self casually scales above a high 4C feat with phase 2 being an amp and the 52x multiplier getting him to a near solar system level.

 

[Maitreya12]

Oh actually, the recalc of the Jupiter feat actually puts them at High 4C for Daewi and Mori Hui each. It only becomes regular 4C when you use the lowest end possible and they’re only 2x away from high 4C as well using the lowest possible end. So again it’s perfectly plausible for phase 2 Satan to scale to high 4C as even phase 1 Satan scales above the Jupiter feat.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Satan himself scales above the combined Jupiter feat which is a high 4C feat and only becomes regular 4C when the results are split in two

No. The feat is 4-C+ before being split. At the very best, Satan is 4-C+ in base.

So even if you don’t like base Satan scaling to high 4C, phase 2 Satan certainly does which is before his 52x amp

I'll explain below why this is impossible.

Furthermore when you multiply the high 4C results from the Jupiter feat by 52, you get a near baseline to above baseline solar system level depending on which end you’re using. So it is kind of consistent of Satan being able to break Yeoui with the multiplier.

That's not how any of this shit works. Yeoui scales to tanking hits from Supreme God Mujin even before Ogre planted her soul inside it. Baseline 4-B and Supreme God 4-B is over 250,000x apart. There's still no way in hell Satan broke Yeoui without some serious PIS involved.

If you are going to dismiss that Satan is equal to Mori base to base then you’d have to disregard not just multiple upon multiple feats showcasing them being equal, but entire chapters as well directly showcasing Mori and Satan being relative to each other in strength.

Yes. Yes I am disregarding one small part where Mori and Satan are equal because it just doesn't make sense for scaling. You understand that a 5x difference is already stompish right? A 7.5x difference in power is already enough to be considered a stomp on our wiki. Which means if Satan multiplied his power by 52x and didn't immediately reduce Mori to gore, Mori either scales, or it's outlier.

If Mori scales, that means he's 52x stronger than Satan the entire time, which is what I current run with. However, if you want to bring in Satan harming Mori prior to the 52x amp into account, that means Satan scales to himself with a 52x amp when that's where the feat comes from. The alternative is to cry outlier, in which case, you put every multiplier in the series into question. You do that, and you can say bye bye to 4-B GoH since the 250,000x amp is already contentious as it is.

Oh and as for the notion that Mori would be one shot by Satan if they were equal and he multiplied his strength by 52, that just means Mori can rank hits way higher than his pay grade without getting one shot. This is entirely and 100% consistent with Mori since on a constant basis he’s shown contending with people who severely outstat him without going down. (Mubong, Dean with armor suits, and now Satan as well). Which was the whole point of that previous topic I mentioned before.

As I've explained above, you have one of two choices.

Scale base Mori to 52x Satan, in which case Satan scales before and after he multiplied his power by 52x, which makes no sense.

Or you accept the small bit of PIS and don't cause circular scaling.

 

[Maitreya12]

No. The feat is 4-C+ before being split. At the very best, Satan is 4-C+ in base.

Ok so that’s only the case if we use the lowest end possible for the feat, which even in the calculation itself cites how that’s the most unlikely option. But even going with this, do you know the difference between that 4C+ feat and baseline high 4C? It’s a difference of 1.024x. So even if you want to say base Satan is 4C+, then phase 2 Satan, which is the one Mori is fighting, can most certainly be High 4C as that is a negligible difference.

I'll explain below why this is impossible.

I don’t think your explanation is viable which I will go into depth below.

That's not how any of this shit works. Yeoui scales to tanking hits from Supreme God Mujin even before Ogre planted her soul inside it. Baseline 4-B and Supreme God 4-B is over 250,000x apart. There's still no way in hell Satan broke Yeoui without some serious PIS involved.

Ok so I’m actually really trying to remember what times Supreme god Mujin ever interacted with the Yeoui, and the only times I remember are when he first awakened as the supreme god and when he used Mandala on it. For the first instance, it’s very important to note that right when Mujin first awakened, he was nowhere near as strong as when he fought Satan as he was gaining in power throughout his fight against Mori and then Satan. And the time after that it was when he used Mandala which he used to pass right through it, so the Yeoui didn’t even tank any hits from that either.

Yes. Yes I am disregarding one small part where Mori and Satan are equal because it just doesn't make sense for scaling. You understand that a 5x difference is already stompish right? A 7.5x difference in power is already enough to be considered a stomp on our wiki. Which means if Satan multiplied his power by 52x and didn't immediately reduce Mori to gore, Mori either scales, or it's outlier.

No, not a “small part,” you’re dismissing entire chapters literally showcasing how they’re even with each other. Also maybe, just maybe the standard you set on vs battle wiki isn’t applicable to literally every single verse that has ever existed throughout the entirety of fiction. It’s fine to use it as a baseline standard and assumption, but if characters are shown to be able to go beyond that standard through the feats they showcase, then all that means is that the standard doesn’t apply to this character/verse as they have the feats to go in contention with it.

If Mori scales, that means he's 52x stronger than Satan the entire time, which is what I current run with. However, if you want to bring in Satan harming Mori prior to the 52x amp into account, that means Satan scales to himself with a 52x amp when that's where the feat comes from. The alternative is to cry outlier, in which case, you put every multiplier in the series into question. You do that, and you can say bye bye to 4-B GoH since the 250,000x amp is already contentious as it is.

If Mori is 52x stronger than Satan the entire time than that makes the entirety of chapter 290 completely nonsensical. Also I hope you realize Mori being 52x stronger than Satan at the very start also causes a scaling loop as well. Mori is obviously not scaling to 52x Satan as he’s getting continally stomped by him throughout the entire time, which would also make zero sense if Mori was already 52x stronger than Satan since Satan multiplying his strength by 52 would just cancel each other out, not outright stomp like he did against Mori. And the minute his 52x amp is over, they’re back to being completely even. Very consistent.

It’s also entirely consistent for Mori to be able to tank and fight against people way way above his pay grade and not get completely mushed with every hit. I cited two other examples such as with Dean with the amor suits against regular Mori Dan and Mori Dan with a damn hole in his heart fighting against supreme god Mujin.

As I've explained above, you have one of two choices.

Scale base Mori to 52x Satan, in which case Satan scales before and after he multiplied his power by 52x, which makes no sense.

Or you accept the small bit of PIS and don't cause circular scaling.

Or, maybe you accept the small bit of how this standard you set may not be applicable to Mori or other characters in the god of highschool verse.

If you want to say that Mori is 52x stronger than Satan from the start then you also realize this causes a circular scaling loop as well since again if Mori is 52x stronger than Satan at the beginning, then that means Satan also scales before and after his 52x boost as he’s fighting with that 52x stronger Mori in base. Your only option is completely ignore the very existence of entire chapters in god of highschool which makes no sense to outright dismiss huge portions of a fight like that just to satisfy a standard that may not be applicable to literally every single character that has ever existed in all of fiction.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Dude you don't understand. If base Mori tanked Satan's 52x amp and you say that's consistent because his dura is >>> his AP, then you immediately relent that Satan could harm him prior to the 52x amp.

Because that means base Satan scales to himself 52x stronger.

 

[Maitreya12]

Dude you don't understand. If base Mori tanked Satan's 52x amp and you say that's consistent because his dura is >>> his AP, then you immediately relent that Satan could harm him prior to the 52x amp.

Because that means base Satan scales to himself 52x stronger.

Ok well then you understand that this exact same line of logic follows you if you assume base Mori is 52x base Satan since base Satan was also tanking hits from 52x stronger Mori. And literally matching him blow for blow. Cause he’s matching someone 52x stronger than him and not getting one shot either, and then stomping when he gets a 52x amp.

Which would also mean base Satan scales to himself 52x stronger.

Again, the standard you set on wiki for one shotting doesn’t necessarily have to apply to literally every single fictional verse to ever exist. A standard is just an average or baseline, but when they have feats that go above that standard than it simply may not be applicable to that verse.

It really ain’t that deep, Satan and Mori are shown to be perfectly matched with each other base to base, this is consistent throughout literally the entire fight between them. Once Satan amps himself by 52x, he starts stomping Mori. And once he gets the rebound from the 52x, him and Mori are back to being even with one another before Satan starts to further amp himself with the sun.

 

[Maitreya12]

Also dude, like you said it makes perfect sense that Mori was high 4C when he left the divine realm.

And as I demonstrated phase 2 Satan should also be high 4C considering even base Satan is already on the cusp of that level as well. So it’s even consistent with the scaling chain too.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Following as well

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Congrats. You've killed 4-B. I hope you're happy.

 

[Maitreya12]

Congrats. You've killed 4-B. I hope you're happy.

My dude wha-?

Pretty sure Mori has a 4-B feat with one shotting all Satan clones. And even multiplying baseline high 4-C by 250,000 gets them well into the 4-B range?

 

[PowerToScale]

Could I get a tl;dr for the arguments?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah so I ran the feat by other site members. They all said the 52x multiplier can't be used in this situation so we'll have to redo the scaling.

 

[PowerToScale]

Yeah so I ran the feat by other site members. They all said the 52x multiplier can't be used in this situation so we'll have to redo the scaling.

What's the issue with the multipliers and scaling?

 

[Maitreya12]

Could I get a tl;dr for the arguments?

Yeah sure no problem.

TLDR: The current key and basis for the scale of Mori’s profile on vs battle goes under the assumption that Mori was 52x stronger than Satan right when he first started the battle.

My argument is that, this assumption makes no sense in the series and literally has nothing (and I really mean nothing) that supports the notion of Mori being 52x stronger than Satan when they first fight. Because if you simply read chapters 290 and the beginning of 291, Satan and Mori are obviously and clearly shown to be completely even base to base. And then when Satan multiples his own power by 52, he completely stomps Mori which would make no sense if he was 52x weaker than Mori prior. Since all that multiplier would do is just cancel each other out if true, however Satan absolutely decimates Mori when he uses an actual 52x multiplier.

To say that Mori is 52x stronger than Satan right when the battle begins, first has zero basis whatsoever, and would mean that entire chapters showcasing the two characters being perfectly matched with one another would make absolutely no sense and be completely nonsensical if Mori was already dozens of times stronger than his opponent from the beginning.

So real TLDR: Mori and Satan are completely even with each other when the fight begins. There is no evidence Mori was 52x stronger when the fight first began and would make zero sense within how that fight was presented in the series.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yeah we're very strict with multipliers. The fact that Mori and Satan fought evenly, actually hurting each other before the 52x amp happened, and then Satan not killing Mori despite being 52x stronger is an exact reason to not take that multiplier seriously. From what I was told, it's just assumed the entire fight before the amp is treated as PIS. But that's absolutely not how we do things, and is also just not a logical assumption at all, and i'm baffled that was even allowed. Instead it should just be assumed the 52x multiplier isn't actually 52x and the author was having a stroke or something. So yeah, 52x multiplier not legit.