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Fire Emblem: Tellius Scaling

Honestly, we should probably revamp the AP sections of Ike and Zelgius to include who they upscale from
 
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We don't really stack multipliers like that; a X times higher damage output isn't linear to the Tons of TNT. The laws of physics aren't really linear like that, but for example, a 2 Megaton punch actually does a lot more than 2x damage than a 1 Megaton punch. There's also the fact that it is possible for even attacks of lower energy yield to inflict more damage due to existence of penetration, blunt force trauma vs heat, precision strikes, ect.

But anyway, I would follow some more standard rules on the upscaling as seen on that recent thread on upscaling; which I do not think anyone would quite reach 7-B via scaling chains and what not. But we could do something similar to what we did with Fates scaling.
 
Well, makes sense, but we could probably still improve the pages for Ike and Zelgius given that they actually have a rather large scaling chain but the pages just imply that they scale to Rexbolt and nothing else

It would at least beat explaining about Ike and Zelgius being the strongest characters in Tellius and how high they scale every thread
 
I agree, that's what I suggestion in my second paragraph was gather the big list of scaling chains. And I also recall that Ike getting much stronger from Path of Radiance to Radiant Dawn was also a good mention. The 2nd to last boss from Path of Radiance who used Rexbolt should be a good starting ground; then Bryce is a decent starting upscale. Then of course, Ike, Black Knight, Ashnard, and Sephiran may receive upgrades accordingly after the chains.
 
Endgame Ike definitely scales above Rexbolt since Naesala was terrified at the very sight of Ashnard, who Ike (Endgame PoR) should scale to

The rest of PoR, however, should scale to Rexbolt, with some minor additions such as Naesala scaling above it, as the laguz royals generally are rather powerful in their own right herons excluded

Giffca and Tibarn also scale above Naesala for obvious reasons (probably even above PoR Ike, but below RD Ike)
 
Shifted Laguz are (typically) stronger than Beorc, with the beast tribe going Cats < Tigers < Lions in terms of physical strength (wouldn't know where exactly to put wolves, but they're probably above cats I'd say)

Zelgius held back against Skrimir as to not kill him, meaning your average lion (Skrimir, possibly Giffca) are fodder to Ike and Zelgius during Radiant Dawn

Consistent with Kurthnaga being an Endgame unit (as Black Dragons are the strongest of all laguz), I'd also say consistent with fighting Dheginsea, but not only did he fight Yune in the past but was stated to be able to fight Ashera (Dheginsea also claims to be stronger than Ike, as well)
 
Yeah, Zelgius stomping Skrimir is a solid backing; Wolf it depends. Volug is like stronger than Cats, but not quite as strong as most Tigers. And he's proficient in his Half Shift ability. But Queen Nailah is stronger than all tigers and strongest Beast that isn't Lion. So those are also chains to look for; though Ranulf is a special case in the Cats department albeit still got stomped by Skrimir. Ike matching Dheginsia is also pretty consistent.
 
But Dheginsea is High 6-A, so Ike fighting Dheginsea can't really be consistent unless we make everyone High 6-A in the endgame (Post Blessing specifically, not scaling to anyone prior to Rebirth 3)

Even after the blessing, however, Dheginsea is stated to be stronger than everyone in your party, even Ike

Would probably scale to Sephiran though
 
Altina, Soan, and Dheginsea were supposed to kill Yune when Ashunera first split
 
I know that, but that's only the case when amped up by Ashera; and that original fight I'm unsure if the Heroes are comparable to the goddesses even with those amps. Though, Ike was seen as comparable to Altina ever since he took Alondite from Ragnell aparently.
 
Mantle is the blessing from Ashera, which Dheginsea still has during his fight in Rebirth 3
 
Proof that Dheginsea still has the same blessing (Represented by Mantle) in Radiant Dawn

Yune: “He has been blessed by Ashera. Not only that, but it’s a powerful, resilient blessing from long ago. He may be nearly impossible to defeat.”

The key phrase here being "from long ago", so it's still the same blessing meant to kill Yune

Also, Post-Blessing Radiant Dawn party should probably be High 6-A, while now quite equal to Dheginsea (each boss conversation has him consistently stated to be stronger) they're still capable of fighting him and eventually defeat him

It would also be consistent with then fighting Ashera, while only Ike scales to her via Tune's power, it would mean it isn't too far fetched for the party to wear her down

Also, while Dheginsea should still be stronger than Ike, he does have this to say:

Dheginsea: Very well, beorc general. Our blessings may be equal and opposite, but your strength is a mere fraction of mine. Show me your best!

So Yune's blessing is definitely equal to Mantle, which is what makes Dheginsea High 6-A (Dheginsea being stronger than the party even with equal boosts is simply because he's the king of goldoa and a black dragon, and would be the most powerful character in Tellius even without it)
 
"Your power is a mere fraction of mine" could be a common trope of antagonists underestimating their opponents, but I do agree Dhegensia is overall stronger in raw power. But Ike should still be able to match him. Also, The Black Knight used to have Mantle throughout Path of Radiance until he lost it; Mantle is the ability in which people are blessed by Ashera to grant invulnerability. Sephiran/Lehran also had that in the Daein Prison Cell which made him completely invulnerable in that game. So by that logic, Ragnell and Alondite would both be that strong in general.

I'm admittedly uneasy here. While it is consistent with neither Yune nor Ashera being able to kill each other on their own and needing a combination of their own power + a weapon of the opposites. Ike needed to be merged with Yune combined with already having Ragnell which was an Ashera blessed item to ultimately kill Ashera. Yune also mentions the Order units all have blessings from Ashera. And when Naesala asked if it was a similar concept to the Black Knight's armor or Ike's sword Ragnell, Yune confirmed yes, but that those examples are actually much stronger versions of "Ashera's blessing". And it wasn't until Tower of Guidance 3 where Yune was able to do the same for various other times which includes weapons matching Mantle. So I'm on board with Black Knight's armor literally just being Mantle with the Alondite and Ragnell also being equal to that. But I'm unsure about everyone with Mantle being High 6-A.
 
Keep in mind that Zelgius never had Ashera's blessing, the armor did, and he lost it after Path of Radiance

I'd say that in BK's case it's simply Invulnerability, since Ike and Zelgius are still equals even without his blessing. Ragnell and Alondite cannot be High 6-A since they still need Yune's blessing to overcome Mantle. It would be weird that if Ragnell was High 6-A, given an extra High 6-A blessing, and then increased yet again by Yune's full power.

I'd say this only applies to the Post Rebirth 3 party, Dheginsea, and Sephiran. The scaling chain would still be the same as it used to be, of course
 
We should also keep in mind that Ike explicitly only has Yune's full power in order to deal the final blow, so everything up until then would just be wearing Ashera down

Ike's AP sections could look like this:

Small City level (Fought and defeated Ashnard, who Naesala was afraid to fight) | Small City level (Equal to Zelgius, who stomped Skrimir) | Multi-Continent level (While not quite as strong, could fight and defeat Dheginsea, who could defeat Yune with the help of Altina and Soan) | Multi-Continent level (Defeated Ashera)

Keys: Path of Radiance | Radiant Dawn | Post-Yune's Blessing | Yune's Full Power

Yune's blessing (and Ashera's blessing, of course) should clearly be weaker than either goddess, since Dheginsea still required help in defeating Yune and Naesala states that Ashera would only hesitate to fight him, which I'd say implies that only means that the blessings only give the goddesses a challenge rather than an actual fight
 
I feel it's excessive to triple post or quadruple post, as opposed to edit posts to add more details with the added "Edit:" next to some new text and only one extra post if the additional details have quite a bit. It's preferable to collect all details on a single post and posting twice can sometimes be reasonable, as long as it's not every time. But three or four posts is spamming category.

But I suppose the above stuff is reasonable.
 
My bad, I simply thought that the posts would've gotten too lengthy, another thing being that they're different points. I probably should've merged the last 2 though
 
Looking good, though a little bit of spacing needs work; and is Ae supposed to be Aether?
 
I'd say I'm ready to apply this (since it only applies to a few profiles currently), but we're kinda the only ones here, I'll repost on the discussion thread
 
Technically, while it does triple his own physical strength (rather than the damage), it seems that would be calc stacking

Perhaps we shouldn't have the multipliers on their pages?
 
It is still considered a damage output multiplier rather than a KE multiplier and the like, so I'd avoid using them for AP jumping. But mentions of doing triple damage is still fine.
 
Sol is a damage multiplier, yes

Other skills that I brought up aren't, but it would still appear to be stacking
 
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DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Can summarize the discussion to me
Click to expand...
Sure, Ike and Zelgius get a scaling chain, Ike gets a Radiant Dawn key, party members get a Post-Yune's Blessing key, Lehran scales to it

It seems accepted, now the discussion seems to have gone back to multipliers from skills
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
Sure, Ike and Zelgius get a scaling chain, Ike gets a Radiant Dawn key, party members get a Post-Yune's Blessing key, Lehran scales to it

It seems accepted, now the discussion seems to have gone back to multipliers from skills
Click to expand...
Seems good to me
 
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