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Introduction
Note 0: I would like to thank Tony_di_bugalu for creating this CRT and allowing me to use write it up, this is possible only due to Tony_di_bugalu's hard work and nothing else.Note 1: As always, most of the scans that I am using have been given to me by Qliphoth Bacikal (who also helped with the translations used). Any other scans were ones I got myself. Once again, thank you dude so much, I know I worked you like a slave, and I am sorry for that - you're the best - thanks again.
Note 2: Please read, this is important. There are tons of things like tiering and other ratings, abilities, resistances, changes in wording and coding, etc that are not present here but are in Qliphoth Bacikal's sandbox. There used to be a section here detailing every addition or change of the profiles, but since I kept on adding stuff to them over the months of working on it, it no longer became an accurate source of information, and I thought it was pointless when the updated profiles and new physiology pages are going to be their own thread anyway.
Note 3: This is the second out of the big three-part CRT extravaganza to upgrade and update the Dies Irae profiles on the wiki, and because of that - any and all additions (except the request to delete Rea's page), as well as examples of what the finished additions would look like, are not going to be added to the profiles until every part of this CRT binge is complete - mainly because it saves me more time and effort to do this, yes, I am that lazy.
Back-to-Back-to-Back Dies Irae blogs, I truly am the gift that keeps on giving. Wouldn't you agree?
I want to start off this thread with an apology for the lack of proper direction with this CRT and how chaotic it is, there were just had a bunch of things that needed to be upgraded or changed and they all didn't seem big enough to warrant like 10 separate threads, so they were just combined into this one big thread.
The title really says it all, so without further ado, I'll just jump right into it and begin.
Riza and Spinne Scaling and/or Upgrades + Die Ewigkeit Explanation
I am going to start off with a minor one.Riza Brenner should at the very least scale above Rot Spinne, and be given a tier, instead of just "Unknown", outside of controlling Tubal Cain.
There are many reasons as to why Riza should scale above Spinne, one of the most direct is this.
Masada back in 2018, created a "Pantheon Ranking".
He had this to say on the matter:
"パンテオンのレアリティについてはバランスに関わるのでまだなんとも言えないけど、単に強さでランク分けするなら自分のイメージ的には以下の七段階"
"I cannot say anything about Pantheon's rarity as it has to do with balance. But if you simply rank it by power (強さ), you get the following levels in this image"
The ranking is a scale of strength based on all of his works, listed from 1-7, with 1 being the weakest (Literally just Spinne) and 7 the strongest (Hadou/Gudou Gods). In this list, he had Spinne at a 1, and put Riza was at a 2.
The very author explicitly states that Riza is stronger than Spinne. But the truth of the matter, it doesn't just end there.
There is a weird contingency on Spinne and Rize's page. Their Attack Potency doesn't scale to their durability, and I am here to explain why that is wrong because it doesn't follow how Die Ewigkeit works whatsoever. Riza and Spinne are Die Ewigkeit users, they aren't any different from anyone else who uses the magic. Die Ewigkeit, the magic system of Dies Irae, is explained on numerous occasions by several characters and sources both in the main novel and in its spin-offs (IKaBey, Song to the Witch, etc.).
The way Ewigkeit works is by the Ewigkeit user having the ability to feed on souls for fuel. "Kill a hundred and gain one hundred souls. Kill a thousand and gain one thousand souls. On a fundamental level, souls function as fuel for using Ewigkeit. Additionally, the more life force one absorbs from other people, the more powerful one's body, senses, and life force become."
Absorbing souls increases one's spiritual density; the more they feed on souls, the stronger they become. Gaining a fundamental strength that is "completely different from a normal human's", in which not even the "strongest anti-personnel weapons can lay a scratch on them" as they are "clad in spiritual armor, so to kill them, one needs to destroy their souls".
Believed by Kei, who was new and isn't the most knowledgable about the magic, that nothing "sort of perhaps a nuclear missile - can take them (Wilhelm and Rusalka) out", which is proven to not be the case as it was stated that, "nuclear weapons of mass destruction would prove to be ineffective" against them. Ren also notes how "you could pull all the conventional weapons in the world from your pocket, and none would mean shit against someone imbued with sorcery." And are stated further to have "powers to rival nuclear weapons".
Every member of the L.D.O., even including Ren and Shirou (after getting either Rusalka or Wilhelm's Relics depending on the timeline/route), have their Attack Potency and Durability equal to one another based on the logic of how Ewigkeit works, the only exception being Trifa who is using Reinhard's body as the Divine Vessel which makes him far more durable than he would be otherwise. But, for some unexplained reason, Riza and Spinne don't despite using the exact same magic like everyone else.
This should be changed and updated. While Riza and Spinne might be weaker than the others, as shown with Masada's strength ranking list, their durability should scale to their attack potency based on how Die Ewigkeit works.
Adding Die Morgendammrung Keys
Die Morgendammrung is one of the multitudes of side stories that are unlockable and viewable in Dies Irae ~Amantes Amentes~.
It's a story about how the members of the L.D.O. met, and the introduction of they came together under Reinhard and Mercurius' rule.
Now, in this story, the characters do not possess Die Ewigkeit as this is before Mercurius taught them it. This is where that "Human Reinhard" key comes from, but I feel other characters deserve keys from this story as well.
In the story, Wolfgang, Wilhelm, Beatrice, and Eleonore all get into a massive fight, which Reinhard proceeds to shut them down by one-shotting all one them and then taking command of them under the guise of Mercurius. Other characters like Trifa, Riza, and Rusalka are there as well.
As for the characters that deserve keys, it would be all four members of the fight, Reinhard (who already has one), and Rusalka (this is more of a key for her as a witch before she learned Die Ewigkeit, but I digress). Everyone else literally doesn't do anything or wasn't there. (Also, adding a Trifa human key as well because he has a power that he doesn't have access to as Reinhard's Divine Vessel)
The keys, strength, scaling, and abilities are all down below in the new justifications section.
Interview keys for the Einherjar + and High 1-A growth Unrestricted tab (Also for Finale Ren, sorta)
Two things are missing from our profiles for the Einherjar. The most important one is that they are missing a specific key - when they weren't Einherjar.Before the decimation of Berlin and Reinhard's first step toward ascension, the Einherjar weren't his Einherjar. They were just regular members of his legion that wished to be Einherjar, and they were significantly weaker than what became of them after they ascended with Reinhard.
It was stated by Masada himself that The Three Commanders became drastically stronger due to becoming "slaves of war":
"位階そのものは皆作中と同じですよ。ただ、熟練度やら魂の数やらで、出力は低かったでしょう。特に大隊長三人は、戦奴化したことで飛躍的に強くなってます。"
"The rank themselves are the same as they appeared in the work. However, depending on the skill level (熟練度) and the number of souls, the output (出力) can be weak/low. For the Three Commanders (隊長三人) especially, they have become dramatically stronger due to becoming slaves of war (戦奴化)."
And further showcased in the novel when even a restricted projection of Eleonore, who could at best summon a third of her full strength, held a "pressure" that "felt worse than anything Lisa (Riza) could remember". Later, at around half power, she is so casually able to fight off Ren when not even using the Yetzirah level of her Anhenerbe.
The only Einherjar that would not get an Interview key would be Machina, simply because of the convoluted way he was "born", he was already born an Einherjar and considered by Wilhelm to be a "senior Valhallan".
As for what will their tiering be, it is hard to say, according to Song of the Witch, Wolfgang gained the number of souls he has his soul stock by the fall of Berlin - this number hasn't changed in the 60 year time skip. Which would imply that none of the Einherjar gained any more souls either.
So how did they get stronger, you might ask?
Now, my explanation is a bit headcanon-y, but sadly that's all we have to work with, Reinhard has the ability to inspire souls and improve their quality, making "even the lowliest grunt" into a "hero". It is very possible (and, in fact, implied in Dies Irae) that Reinhard did this to his Einherjar's souls. It should be noted there is such a thing as having a higher quality soul, which makes you stronger (in fact, it's basically the entire plot of Interview).
At the very least, they should still scale above the other L.D.O. members, but it is possible they should possess strength comparable to Gladsheimr-empowered Wilhelm.
The second thing that is missing from their profiles is that in their "Unrestricted" key, is that they don't share the same growth that Reinhard does after all the Swastikas are filled. At the point of the story, in that key, all eight Swastikas are opened, and combined with Reinhard's blessing from his castle, they are essentially on the Atziluth degree.
Reinhard's emanation has started and in just a few short moments from the opening of the last swastika, he will grow and become a Hadou God, bring up his legion to his level of existence and turn them into artificial gods, so they can paint over the current law of the world in their color - Gold.
And so, because of this, they should also get something along the lines of, "Will eventually grow to High 1-A" like Reinhard does, as in that key, in that moment of time, they are also about to "become gods" - albeit artificial ones.
Finale Ren should also have a similar rating. Ren was actively suppressing his emanation and could activate at any time, but refused to do so because of his belief that his world would make creation a place worse than hell - this worry was then soothed out by and negated by Marie speaking to him. So I suggest something along the lines of "Can and will eventually grow to High 1-A. With a weakness being added as well.
Fixing Restricted Keys
While this relates to the Einherjar, I decided to discuss this because it also relates to Reinhard himself.In the novel, there are numerous statements about the level of power that the Einherjar (and thus Reinhard as well) have with the Swastikas.
At 3 Swastikas - the strength is about a third.
At 4 Swastikas - around half her strength.
At 6 Swastikas - it's about 80% of their full strength.
And once all 8 Swastikas are opened - they are at their full power.
While it isn't directly stated, the math clearly shows that the Swastikas only negates about 1/8 of their true power (Their unrestricted forms) with each Swastika.
This is radically different from what we have on the profiles - which only have them at 7-A.
Their justifications come from uber-casually one-shotting a stated mountain buster.
The point of this section of the thread is to change that, the percentage is too consistent and direct for them to be anything but exactly as strong as they say they are.
They are even stated that their "pressure" is far greater than remembered at even only a fraction of their true strength - showing they should be stronger than what they were, not weaker, like at all.
Sakuya Kyougetsu Scaling
I know that Sakuya isn't a Dies Irae character, but technically, what I am going to use to justify her having an actual tier is related to a Dies Irae character, so I am deciding to include her on this thread.This logic for this is that in Masada's 2018 Pantheon ranking, he put Sakuya at level 2 - the same level as Riza Brenner, both above Rot Spinne, and below Rusalka and Kei Sakurai (who are at level 3). So she should be on a comparable level of physical strength with her.
And so, because the only reasoning for her to have a tier is a Word of God ranking, I think she should have a "possibly" ranking following her current, "Unknown" ranking.
That's really it, not much more to it.
Extra Tabs for Marie
Currently, Marie only has one tab/key, which is her as a Hadou God.Personally, I find this to be disingenuous as for most of the plot of Dies Irae, Marie is NOT a Hadou God. She is a Gudou God.
For future reference:
Hadou = Hegemony = Affects outside of oneself, while. . .Gudou = Transcendence = Affects solely oneself.
Marie, the Twilight, is the only "Transcendence type who has reached" the "realm of the gods" and is "fated to spend eternal solitude in their own solitary parallel world, alone and with no means of fading away." In the novel, it is stated that she Transcendence type on the Emanation (Atzulith) degree and that the "law on a Transcendence type only becomes perfectly eternal on the user."
It is also stated by Masada himself to be on the same level of existence as Reinhard, Ren, and Mercurius:
"水銀汚染による超１４歳病にかかっているので、蓮は単独でもいけますが、あくまでメルが“そうなるようにしてやってる”という前提。これはラインハルトも一緒。なので、純粋に流出域の人間は作中でマリィとメルの二人だけ。"
"'Because of the 14-year-old illness caused by the pollution of Mercury, Ren could have been his own person so it was apparent that this is Merc's doing. The same can be said for Reinhard. Thus, there are only two people who are purely in the Emanation Degree, Marie, and Merc'"
It's only at the end of the Visual Novel, and in only two out of four routes/timelines (Marie and Rea Routes) that Marie ascends to the Throne and changes from a Gudou God and becomes a Hadou God - to paint the world in her color, one of peace. Which is the desire of both Ren Fuji and Mercurius (as shown when he gives her an ultimatum in which only the Emanation of a new law would allow them to leave where they were) as he truly believed in her world and wanted to "entrust the leading role to the Goddess till the very end".
However, when Marie is a Gudou God, her soul is given to Ren by Mercurius to be his Ahnenerbe, she sometimes appears in the human world as a sort of 'projection' that is distinct from her real self. It's somewhat convoluted, but it is what happens. There are things that separate this projection from the Gudou God, however, mainly her strength - or lack thereof.
Even a Restricted Eleonore, who was only at around half power and only using the Assiah degree, was casually slapping this projection of Marie. In fact, this projection of Marie is so depowered, that her curse doesn't properly work, as Eleonore was able to survive her decapitation due to her immortality and because the curse lack any true lethality as "Marie lacked killing intent".
When Marie tried to rectify this situation, understanding Eleonore's nature and what needed to be done, she reached out her hand to touch Eleonore, this time with killing intent. Ren wakes up from being unconscious and despite her consideration and reflection on her actions, she decides to fight with Ren instead of by herself - and deems him her "one and only" as she becomes the blade "able to defeat the immortal woman (Eleonore)"
Barring this little scuffle with Eleonore, Marie's projection never gets into any fight, and never fights on her own.
If she were to get a key, she would be granted the rank of "Unknown". And specifically, have the weakness of the fact that her curse doesn't work on the level that it should because she lacks killing intent when she fights on her own.
As for Marie's ranking as a Gudou God, the truth is, we don't know her exact ranking because her Taikyoku value for this version of Marie is never stated - the only thing we know is that Marie is on the Emanation degree, and has a similar state of existence to Ren, Mercurius, and Reinhard. So she would be High 1-A, but to what exact level, is unsure.
Her current key is based on her time as a Hadou God, so nothing should change there.
And that's just about everything about Marie.
Reiatsu Crush GG!
No, but seriously.There are numerous times in the novel where the power of one of the characters is measured by their "spiritual pressure".
Take Riza reading the strength of Eleonore's projection, stating, "Yet this atmosphere, this pressure, it felt worse than anything Lisa could remember.", as a perfect example of this.
However, nowhere was this so blatant as when Reinhard first appeared in the real world against Ren. His presence paralyzes Ren in place, breaks down his body, shatters his soul, makes Ren's strength fade, drives weaker minds to insanity, and induces mind-numbing fear into all who are near him, even Marie, who didn't possess emotions before Reinhard pierced her with his spear - which is directly AFTER this confrontation.
A pressure that Ren needed to adapt to and develop a resistance to overcome it.
This power is not just exclusive to Reinhard, as other members of the L.D.O. are capable of similar feats as well, just on a smaller scale obviously.
I feel like there is enough proof that every character in Dies Irae has something akin to what Bleach characters have with their spiritual pressure - which has disastrous effects on those without the proper resistance.
Apoptosis Nature/Physiology
Apoptoses like Reinhard and Shirou are very unique. They are compared to, and act like, cancer cells. Essentially, they are self-destructive cells that multiply endlessly until the host is deadAnd because of that, they possess a sort of ability. An Apoptosis is able to infect and spread their nature around to others.
For Reinhard, it's his ability to absorb souls and convert them into his legion - this is implied something that Reinhard as a "newly born transcendent" was even capable of doing. And for Shirou, it's his ability to give others his agony of foreknowledge.
Removing Rea's Page
I don't even know why this is a thing, but Rea Himuro shouldn't have a page.She is a non-fighter, only as strong as a regular teenage girl, and the only ability she has, she isn't capable of doing it on her own and it issn't even combat applicable.
I do not feel she is appropriate for the wiki and I highly recommend deleting the page.
That's all
Changing High-Godly to Type 4 Immortality
Why the change? You might ask, well, it's simple - it's a misconception.Gladsheimr does NOT improve regeneration - this is not stated or implied anywhere. It resurrects.
Gladsheimr is described as a hell of infinite resurrections that will resurrect endlessly all the souls who fall in Reinhard's castle (and outside the castle walls) instantly, without limit. This works on Non-Einherjar too because it resurrected all the L.D.O. members after they had their souls destroyed by Methuselah's time acceleration.
Now. What level does this resurrection work at? You might ask.
It's the same level as before - High Godly. As shown by the fact that they can even come back from Machina's erasure as shown when the Three Commanders used their immortality as an edge when fighting Finale Ren. They even stated that Machina kills the others, but they just come back. So it's definitely not regeneration.
So, essentially, nothing has changed - just thought this was a big enough misconception that it needed to be addressed in its own section.
Conclusion/Tl;DR
In this blog, I have set out to do and prove one thing:- Expanded on certain profiles by adding new scaling/logic and/or new tabs for different forms that a character might take as well as add numerous abilities to the profiles, providing scans for everything
Thank you.
Votes
This is going to be an absolute bitch to track, why do I do this to myself?Riza and Spinne Scaling and/or Upgrades + Die Ewigkeit Explanation
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Adding Die Morgendammrung Keys
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Interview keys for the Einherjar + and High 1-A growth Unrestricted tab (Also for Finale Ren, sorta)
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Fixing Restricted Keys
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Sakuya Kyougetsu Scaling
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Extra Tabs for Marie
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Reiatsu Crush GG!
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Apoptosis Nature/Physiology
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Removing Rea's Page
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
Changing High-Godly to Type 4 Immortality
- Agree: 14 (Tony_di_bugalu, PsychoWarper, Ionliosite, TISSG7Redgrave, YuriAkuto, Infera28, Sparteh, Veloxt1r0kore, Infinity_Shun, Narrator, Rocker1189, Celestial_Pegasus, Overlord775, Sir_Ovens)
- Disagree: 0
- Ambivalent: 0
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