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Precisely, especially since the battle ends as it begins.
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Mewtwo vs Rumplestiltskin (OUAT)
- Thread starter The_Archdemon
- Start date
- 2,601
- 114
- Thread starter
- #42
Well, if Rumple starts with Time Stop, he wins. Same with Existence Erasure or Law Manip.
And you need to remember that this is Wish Realm Rumple. He hates fighting and it is extremely unlikely for him to start with anything but one-shot.
And you need to remember that this is Wish Realm Rumple. He hates fighting and it is extremely unlikely for him to start with anything but one-shot.
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He starts with time stop, Mewtwo's stopped in time while Rumple's dust. Pretty sure the timestop ends when the caster is dead, so Mewtwo'd win. Existence erasure, Mewtwo's wiped from existence while Rumple's dust, resulting in inconclusive. I have no idea what his Law Manipulation is like but given that you're saying it's a one shot, it would be the same as scenario two.
You're still forgetting that Mewtwo also wins with a thought due to the AP gap and telekinesis. From what I know of Rumple, a lot of his stuff still requires a hand movement, a lot of his stuff would one-shot anyone regardless, so he may use normal strats instead of haxing, and just because he hates fighting doesn't mean he will erase existence or stop time on second one. Meanwhile, his opponent is outright stated to use his psychic powers to instawin before his opponent can think. Couple that with Mewtwo's passive fear manipulation likely stunning Rumple for a second or two along with the chance of straight up immobilizing him with the Intimidator skill, and we see that Mewtwo would shoot first in this who-shoots-first matchup.
You're still forgetting that Mewtwo also wins with a thought due to the AP gap and telekinesis. From what I know of Rumple, a lot of his stuff still requires a hand movement, a lot of his stuff would one-shot anyone regardless, so he may use normal strats instead of haxing, and just because he hates fighting doesn't mean he will erase existence or stop time on second one. Meanwhile, his opponent is outright stated to use his psychic powers to instawin before his opponent can think. Couple that with Mewtwo's passive fear manipulation likely stunning Rumple for a second or two along with the chance of straight up immobilizing him with the Intimidator skill, and we see that Mewtwo would shoot first in this who-shoots-first matchup.
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Even though Rumple is dead, it has been stated by the Apprentice that the Author's powers can resurrect dead beings. Even if Mew tries to kill him, he comes back. Other than that, his dagger functions exactly like the Zelena Medallion, being the source of his power, so he would have Low-Godly regen.
Rumple may simply think and all of Mewtwo's powers would be removed, so would his immortality. He could simply manipulate Causality and make Mewtwo never kill anyone.
In most Rumple moments where the same is threatened or etc, he always transmutes or simply quickly eliminates his target, unless he has some kind of purpose to him, as was shown when he killed a Fairy or etc.
Rumple may simply think and all of Mewtwo's powers would be removed, so would his immortality. He could simply manipulate Causality and make Mewtwo never kill anyone.
In most Rumple moments where the same is threatened or etc, he always transmutes or simply quickly eliminates his target, unless he has some kind of purpose to him, as was shown when he killed a Fairy or etc.
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Author powers can resurrect dead beings, but not the author itself. Think Shenron from Dragon Ball. Mew kills him, author powers don't help because he's dead. Zelena's regen isn't even combat applicable. I was on the thread where it was added. It requires prep. Not to mention that source of power and your life aren't the same thing.
All those require Mewtwo to not kill him as soon as the match begins, on which it's fully in character for Mewtwo to do. The former still leaves Mewtwo alive so when they trade that initial thought. The latter, he never used in that way and by the time he thinks to use it that way, Mewtwo already telekinetically blew him up.
Most of Rumple's quick elimination methods require at least some hand movement, and if Mewtwo's turned into a mouse, they still trade that initial thought, leaving Rumple as pink mist and even though Mewtwo's incapacitated, at least he's alive. Most of his other quick elimination methods that he uses on a normal basis are too slow to matter.
There's also the fact that most of these methods he has are things that he doesn't normally use. Time stop, death manipulation (which btw, requires contact with Mewtwo which ain't gonna happen), existence erasure, etc. are things other people or items used throughout the series and while he knows them, by the time he decides to use it, given it's not his go to method, he's dead.
The best Rumple can hope for is inconclusive, as from what I know of Rumple, his most likely option for taking out Mewtwo while remaining in character with normal strats is transmutation as everything else let's Mewtwo get that thought off.
All those require Mewtwo to not kill him as soon as the match begins, on which it's fully in character for Mewtwo to do. The former still leaves Mewtwo alive so when they trade that initial thought. The latter, he never used in that way and by the time he thinks to use it that way, Mewtwo already telekinetically blew him up.
Most of Rumple's quick elimination methods require at least some hand movement, and if Mewtwo's turned into a mouse, they still trade that initial thought, leaving Rumple as pink mist and even though Mewtwo's incapacitated, at least he's alive. Most of his other quick elimination methods that he uses on a normal basis are too slow to matter.
There's also the fact that most of these methods he has are things that he doesn't normally use. Time stop, death manipulation (which btw, requires contact with Mewtwo which ain't gonna happen), existence erasure, etc. are things other people or items used throughout the series and while he knows them, by the time he decides to use it, given it's not his go to method, he's dead.
The best Rumple can hope for is inconclusive, as from what I know of Rumple, his most likely option for taking out Mewtwo while remaining in character with normal strats is transmutation as everything else let's Mewtwo get that thought off.
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The difference is that Rumple is not the author itself, he has his powers through Henry's faith in him. Therefore, nothing prevents it from using Henry's powers in him.
Obviously works for Rumple. Zelena's medallion has its vital energy and magic. When she was killed by Rumple, she simply went to the Time Travel Spell and regenerated there, the Dagger is exactly the same, the source of her magic and vital energy, because it is from her that he is always energized and it is from her that his life is literally linked, so much so that when one Dark One dies and passes the title to another, its essence remains within the dagger.
And that's also exactly what Rumple is going to do too. Except for the fact that either this is inconclusive or it is a sure victory for Rumple because it has several advantages like thinking and the powers of Mew being removed or disintegrating via Matter Manipulation, Existence Erasure and others.
That is, you are clearly saying that Mew will start by killing Rumple, ripping it to powder, even when he has several other abilities and various other methods of trying to win, completely disregarding any other possibility.
No. It is clearly shown in the work that they need not make any movement of the hand. Rumple has already used several of his abilities being seen mainly using hand movements like Teleport or his Magic Immobilization. Hand movements are unnecessary most of the time and have been shown in several different cases such as Plant Manipulation and others. it's just a cool thing to show off, just like the hand seals on Naruto.
Regina and Jafar have already used Death Inducement just to wiggle their hand. Rumple would still win the majority of the times they face.
Obviously works for Rumple. Zelena's medallion has its vital energy and magic. When she was killed by Rumple, she simply went to the Time Travel Spell and regenerated there, the Dagger is exactly the same, the source of her magic and vital energy, because it is from her that he is always energized and it is from her that his life is literally linked, so much so that when one Dark One dies and passes the title to another, its essence remains within the dagger.
And that's also exactly what Rumple is going to do too. Except for the fact that either this is inconclusive or it is a sure victory for Rumple because it has several advantages like thinking and the powers of Mew being removed or disintegrating via Matter Manipulation, Existence Erasure and others.
That is, you are clearly saying that Mew will start by killing Rumple, ripping it to powder, even when he has several other abilities and various other methods of trying to win, completely disregarding any other possibility.
No. It is clearly shown in the work that they need not make any movement of the hand. Rumple has already used several of his abilities being seen mainly using hand movements like Teleport or his Magic Immobilization. Hand movements are unnecessary most of the time and have been shown in several different cases such as Plant Manipulation and others. it's just a cool thing to show off, just like the hand seals on Naruto.
Regina and Jafar have already used Death Inducement just to wiggle their hand. Rumple would still win the majority of the times they face.
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And what will let Henry know that Rumple is dead? Henry's not exactly Khorne or anything and is omniscient There's a reason said regen is "via prep" on all who are scaled to that feat. She had already cast a spell as a precaution. Rumple doesn't have that luxury of prep. When Mewtwo kills Rumple, Rumple's essence is going inside the dagger like Nimue, sure, but it's not coming back out due to lack of that prep. If you have a problem with that, make a CRT.
The question I'm going to keep on asking is when has Rumple used matter manipulation or existence erasure, or others on someone else in combat? Not someone else that he taught it to. Not on an object. Directly on someone else as a first move. If he doesn't he's dead. You can't say the same for Mewtwo because literally anything he does kills, he has the direct statement of using offensive psychic powers with the intent to end it right there as his first action, and on-screen examples of just lolTK'ing opponents, even when he's restricted.
And he just decides to nix the hand movements he almost always does for what reason? He doesn't know Mewtwo's a planet busting monster who can kill him in an instant. He just sees another enemy to kill. Not to mention that just because some abilities are with a thought doesn't mean all are.
Rumple's not Regina or Jafar. It doesn't matter if he has the same abilities as them. He's his own person with his own preferred attacks.
The question I'm going to keep on asking is when has Rumple used matter manipulation or existence erasure, or others on someone else in combat? Not someone else that he taught it to. Not on an object. Directly on someone else as a first move. If he doesn't he's dead. You can't say the same for Mewtwo because literally anything he does kills, he has the direct statement of using offensive psychic powers with the intent to end it right there as his first action, and on-screen examples of just lolTK'ing opponents, even when he's restricted.
And he just decides to nix the hand movements he almost always does for what reason? He doesn't know Mewtwo's a planet busting monster who can kill him in an instant. He just sees another enemy to kill. Not to mention that just because some abilities are with a thought doesn't mean all are.
Rumple's not Regina or Jafar. It doesn't matter if he has the same abilities as them. He's his own person with his own preferred attacks.
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Henry's powers work through his faith in Rumple. If he dies, he will go directly to the Underworld, where he can still use the powers of the Author to resurrect himself, after all, Henry will still be believing him because he does not know that he died.
He does not need preparation, his dagger works just like Zelena's medallion. She needed preparation (which was not even her, because the one who gave this medallion to her was Glinda), Rumple's Dagger does it naturally for him.
And I'm working on it, just getting more information!
Regina disintegrated Daniel, Dark Swan disintegrated the dead body of Merlin. On Existence Erasure, Henry used this to completely erase the fictional realm that Isaac created, removing only his family and the characters from Storybrooke, erasing the whole realm.
What? If Mew starts with elemental manipulation, energy projection, or anything else, he would lose. Anyway, in 90% of a combat scenario, Rumple would kill, incapacitate or defeat Mewtwo.
Whether or not he suspends his hand movements is not the issue, the point is that it is shown on-screen, that hand movements are unnecessary for the use of spells and magic, although normally used in the work.
LOL! Rumple is Regina's teacher and has taught her magic for dozens of years, he is also the teacher of Zelena and Cora. So whatever skills they show one day, obviously he gets powerscalling, because Rumple does not even need to learn magic, just like Merlin or Nimue did not have to.
He does not need preparation, his dagger works just like Zelena's medallion. She needed preparation (which was not even her, because the one who gave this medallion to her was Glinda), Rumple's Dagger does it naturally for him.
And I'm working on it, just getting more information!
Regina disintegrated Daniel, Dark Swan disintegrated the dead body of Merlin. On Existence Erasure, Henry used this to completely erase the fictional realm that Isaac created, removing only his family and the characters from Storybrooke, erasing the whole realm.
What? If Mew starts with elemental manipulation, energy projection, or anything else, he would lose. Anyway, in 90% of a combat scenario, Rumple would kill, incapacitate or defeat Mewtwo.
Whether or not he suspends his hand movements is not the issue, the point is that it is shown on-screen, that hand movements are unnecessary for the use of spells and magic, although normally used in the work.
LOL! Rumple is Regina's teacher and has taught her magic for dozens of years, he is also the teacher of Zelena and Cora. So whatever skills they show one day, obviously he gets powerscalling, because Rumple does not even need to learn magic, just like Merlin or Nimue did not have to.
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When has that ever happened?
Given how many times Rumple nearly died, the time he did die, and how terrified he was of his father, I have a hard time believing that. Not to mention that again, when has that ever happened? A lot of the stuff that he has he gets from scaling, and some of them make no sense for him to have for scaling. Regen being the primary one. You don't scale Regenerationn.
Once again, they're not Rumple. Something that they choose to employ in combat isn't the same thing as what Rumple would.
Not only would those still kill Rumple due to his poor durability, but unlike the opposition, there's quotes backing up that Mewtwo would lead with psychic powers. Heck, even if Mewtwo didn't lead with TK and just decided to do other things, Rumple would still have to end the fight incredibly quickly, and I don't remember him ever outright ending a fight in five seconds, which is all Mewtwo would need if he decided to skip thought based actions (which he wouldn't).
Exactly. Normally used. Check standard battle assumptions. If Rumple unnecessarily twirls his hands for spells because he wants to, he still will.
For the final time, they are not Rumple. It doesn't matter that he has the magic that they do. What matters is if he uses it in combat. Not if Regina or Cora or Emma or anyone else uses it.
Given how many times Rumple nearly died, the time he did die, and how terrified he was of his father, I have a hard time believing that. Not to mention that again, when has that ever happened? A lot of the stuff that he has he gets from scaling, and some of them make no sense for him to have for scaling. Regen being the primary one. You don't scale Regenerationn.
Once again, they're not Rumple. Something that they choose to employ in combat isn't the same thing as what Rumple would.
Not only would those still kill Rumple due to his poor durability, but unlike the opposition, there's quotes backing up that Mewtwo would lead with psychic powers. Heck, even if Mewtwo didn't lead with TK and just decided to do other things, Rumple would still have to end the fight incredibly quickly, and I don't remember him ever outright ending a fight in five seconds, which is all Mewtwo would need if he decided to skip thought based actions (which he wouldn't).
Exactly. Normally used. Check standard battle assumptions. If Rumple unnecessarily twirls his hands for spells because he wants to, he still will.
For the final time, they are not Rumple. It doesn't matter that he has the magic that they do. What matters is if he uses it in combat. Not if Regina or Cora or Emma or anyone else uses it.
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Never. But it is stated by the Apprentice that Henry can do this and Rumple can use his powers outside, so no problem. It is not as if the power of the Author were directly from Rumple. And as shown, the powers of the Author cross all the existing realms in OUAT.
What? Peter Pan is not even comparable to Rumple, the same was also afraid of Cora and the several times he almost died, in all of them, were on account of PIS.
It would be, but the fact that the Dagger works just like Zelena's medallion in a universe where abilities are all based on spells and that anyone can learn, where Zelena's Regenerationn magic is through the Magic that Rumple taught the same. ... Yes, it makes sense!
Rumple never do this, does not mean he can not do it! He is Regina's teacher, so he can do the same as her and is a much better connoisseur of magic than the same. Dark Swan did not even know about spells and was able to use this, just by becoming a Dark One. And he used Matter Manipulation to kill a Fairy. Even Holy Grail, source of Dark One's powers, is seen using Matter Manipulation.
The same for Rumplestiltskin, in which he kills anyone who has no use for him in the future, as he did with that Fairy, or several other people, like Gaston and the ogres.
In any case where Mew does not use TK, he will be defeated. In any way, Rumple would win most of his encounters.
Yes, normally. But, it on-screen and in-character, it also does not use unnecessary moves, that is ... It can use or not, and this only reinforces the fact that Rumple would win most of the time. Also pay attention to standard battle assumptions. In it says that the user must be willing to kill the opponent, which Rumple does not normally do and he has several spells for this....
He continues to be his teacher and continues to do everything he does. Rumple kills people and Hades himself said that he killed more people than Regina his whole life. Is it really serious that you're telling me, that Regina use this to kill foes, is it impossible because Rumple never showed it? Nonsense. It's like saying that Madara/Obito can not copy combat styles and ninjutsus, because we never showed it.
What? Peter Pan is not even comparable to Rumple, the same was also afraid of Cora and the several times he almost died, in all of them, were on account of PIS.
It would be, but the fact that the Dagger works just like Zelena's medallion in a universe where abilities are all based on spells and that anyone can learn, where Zelena's Regenerationn magic is through the Magic that Rumple taught the same. ... Yes, it makes sense!
Rumple never do this, does not mean he can not do it! He is Regina's teacher, so he can do the same as her and is a much better connoisseur of magic than the same. Dark Swan did not even know about spells and was able to use this, just by becoming a Dark One. And he used Matter Manipulation to kill a Fairy. Even Holy Grail, source of Dark One's powers, is seen using Matter Manipulation.
The same for Rumplestiltskin, in which he kills anyone who has no use for him in the future, as he did with that Fairy, or several other people, like Gaston and the ogres.
In any case where Mew does not use TK, he will be defeated. In any way, Rumple would win most of his encounters.
Yes, normally. But, it on-screen and in-character, it also does not use unnecessary moves, that is ... It can use or not, and this only reinforces the fact that Rumple would win most of the time. Also pay attention to standard battle assumptions. In it says that the user must be willing to kill the opponent, which Rumple does not normally do and he has several spells for this....
He continues to be his teacher and continues to do everything he does. Rumple kills people and Hades himself said that he killed more people than Regina his whole life. Is it really serious that you're telling me, that Regina use this to kill foes, is it impossible because Rumple never showed it? Nonsense. It's like saying that Madara/Obito can not copy combat styles and ninjutsus, because we never showed it.
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Can do what? Resurrect the dead? Your answer is incredibly vague. And if this never happened, how can I find it reliable?
No, it doesn't. Vague scaling to another magic item that required prep to work well is bad enough, but couple that with threats to his life and it becomes ridiculous to assume that he could up and come back from anything and everything.
Yes. I know. And apparently, you're still not getting my point. Rumple can use the abilities, but he won't in time, because he never did.
He does kill a lot. And a lot of the time, he doesn't just hax them to death. Heart rip, telekinetic choking, fiery bursting, and most of the time he makes a scene first, even if he's on the good side. The only exception is transmutation, in which he does still make a scene first and make the hand gestures or maneuvers with his dagger. Even if Mewtwo didn't lead with TK, he'd still probably still win due to actually being more combat savvy, the terrible durability of Rumple, and still ending it in the first attack. Heck, Rumple leads with TK too. Does it all throughout season 7, or at least Wish Rumple does. That gets Rumple killed by anything, from Swift to Flamethrower.
On screen, Rumple uses hand motions countless times, and even takes his time to savor the moments.
For crying out loud... Obviously he can use the abilities. I've said from the very beginning that he could. The question is would he, and because he hasn't used any of these abilities in direct combat, the idea that he'd just up and bust them out on the first attack is silly. The only thing I'll say Rumple will use relatively quickly that you mentioned is matter manipulation, as he used that to kill his mother, but that requires hand + dagger movement, and he was still throwing her around before he did it, and it wasn't instantaneous.
And the thing is, most of the haxy things are done by normal universe Rumple. This matchup is Wish Realm Rumple. I just read up on Wish Realm Rumple. Totally different than normal Rumple. Dude's a total ******. He's more likely to try to kill Mewtwo via stabbing or choking than he is to reality warp him away. Don't get me wrong, he still has access to all of his Dark One powers, but his own screen appearances don't have him haxing anyone other than teleporting them inside a crystal ball, which Mewtwo can get out of.
Also, dude was gonna die from Weaver ripping his heart out, so yeah, Mewtwo can easily kill him. Even if Mewtwo never decided to use TK, he'd kill him, because the dude won't bust out any of the big guns anytime soon.
No, it doesn't. Vague scaling to another magic item that required prep to work well is bad enough, but couple that with threats to his life and it becomes ridiculous to assume that he could up and come back from anything and everything.
Yes. I know. And apparently, you're still not getting my point. Rumple can use the abilities, but he won't in time, because he never did.
He does kill a lot. And a lot of the time, he doesn't just hax them to death. Heart rip, telekinetic choking, fiery bursting, and most of the time he makes a scene first, even if he's on the good side. The only exception is transmutation, in which he does still make a scene first and make the hand gestures or maneuvers with his dagger. Even if Mewtwo didn't lead with TK, he'd still probably still win due to actually being more combat savvy, the terrible durability of Rumple, and still ending it in the first attack. Heck, Rumple leads with TK too. Does it all throughout season 7, or at least Wish Rumple does. That gets Rumple killed by anything, from Swift to Flamethrower.
On screen, Rumple uses hand motions countless times, and even takes his time to savor the moments.
For crying out loud... Obviously he can use the abilities. I've said from the very beginning that he could. The question is would he, and because he hasn't used any of these abilities in direct combat, the idea that he'd just up and bust them out on the first attack is silly. The only thing I'll say Rumple will use relatively quickly that you mentioned is matter manipulation, as he used that to kill his mother, but that requires hand + dagger movement, and he was still throwing her around before he did it, and it wasn't instantaneous.
And the thing is, most of the haxy things are done by normal universe Rumple. This matchup is Wish Realm Rumple. I just read up on Wish Realm Rumple. Totally different than normal Rumple. Dude's a total ******. He's more likely to try to kill Mewtwo via stabbing or choking than he is to reality warp him away. Don't get me wrong, he still has access to all of his Dark One powers, but his own screen appearances don't have him haxing anyone other than teleporting them inside a crystal ball, which Mewtwo can get out of.
Also, dude was gonna die from Weaver ripping his heart out, so yeah, Mewtwo can easily kill him. Even if Mewtwo never decided to use TK, he'd kill him, because the dude won't bust out any of the big guns anytime soon.
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What? Is there another definition for resurrecting someone you know? Cruella asked Henry to resurrect the same and he even became annoyed with the Apprentice, because he lied about not being able to do that. Rumple could still resurrect himself, using Henry's faith in him.
Not when they have the same functionality, both are the source of their magical and vital powers, so much so that Rumple in season 4, tried to cut the link that the dagger has in his life.
Using PIS to justify your arguments will not work. The only time Rumple died was when he stabbed Pan and himself with Dark One Dagger, the remainder was just PIS.
Yes, and continue to avoid the fact that Rumple usually does not try to kill others. But he does it without further ado, as he did with a Fairy, Gaston and others.
Yes, except for the fact that he already used Matter Manipulation to kill a fairy, simply because she would not be useful in the future and take his wand. Or simply transmutes them without more or less, as it did with Gaston or the man who hurt his son. Even the Dark Swan did this without having to use the Dagger, so stop hiding through PIS.
And he has several ways to eliminate Mewtwo, even more so W.R Rumple, who is described as being EXTREMELY more evil than the Rumple Original.
If Mew does not start with TK, he loses it to a thought of Rumple, destroying it from existence, or several other ways.
Yes, just like on-screen, he also does not use them or simply kills others for nothing and simply because he wants to.
Rumple killed the Fairy without needing the Dagger, Dark Swan did the same, Regina too. And as I said, hand movements are unnecessary and even if you need to, in any other mode where Mew does not use TK, he inevitably dies.
What? WR Rumple is much more evil than any other being, and in NO MOMENT he tried to kill the others, at most he wanted to torture them or change their destiny and make them suffer, he was at no time willing to kill anybody and yes, to change the plot behind the fairy tales. Rumple Original was just killing because he wanted to. He was able to even capture and torture Pan, something Original Rumple was extremely fearful to do. A sadistic and extremely evil guy, being induced to kill your opponent in a fight? It is most likely that he purges Mew of existence or simply manipulates his destiny so that horrible things happen to him.
Oh God! Rumple did not even possess his powers or immortality, they were taken away by W.R Henry, dude! Without TK, Mew has no chance, in any other method he would lose and WR Rumple can just kill him, exactly as Rumple Original does.
Not when they have the same functionality, both are the source of their magical and vital powers, so much so that Rumple in season 4, tried to cut the link that the dagger has in his life.
Using PIS to justify your arguments will not work. The only time Rumple died was when he stabbed Pan and himself with Dark One Dagger, the remainder was just PIS.
Yes, and continue to avoid the fact that Rumple usually does not try to kill others. But he does it without further ado, as he did with a Fairy, Gaston and others.
Yes, except for the fact that he already used Matter Manipulation to kill a fairy, simply because she would not be useful in the future and take his wand. Or simply transmutes them without more or less, as it did with Gaston or the man who hurt his son. Even the Dark Swan did this without having to use the Dagger, so stop hiding through PIS.
And he has several ways to eliminate Mewtwo, even more so W.R Rumple, who is described as being EXTREMELY more evil than the Rumple Original.
If Mew does not start with TK, he loses it to a thought of Rumple, destroying it from existence, or several other ways.
Yes, just like on-screen, he also does not use them or simply kills others for nothing and simply because he wants to.
Rumple killed the Fairy without needing the Dagger, Dark Swan did the same, Regina too. And as I said, hand movements are unnecessary and even if you need to, in any other mode where Mew does not use TK, he inevitably dies.
What? WR Rumple is much more evil than any other being, and in NO MOMENT he tried to kill the others, at most he wanted to torture them or change their destiny and make them suffer, he was at no time willing to kill anybody and yes, to change the plot behind the fairy tales. Rumple Original was just killing because he wanted to. He was able to even capture and torture Pan, something Original Rumple was extremely fearful to do. A sadistic and extremely evil guy, being induced to kill your opponent in a fight? It is most likely that he purges Mew of existence or simply manipulates his destiny so that horrible things happen to him.
Oh God! Rumple did not even possess his powers or immortality, they were taken away by W.R Henry, dude! Without TK, Mew has no chance, in any other method he would lose and WR Rumple can just kill him, exactly as Rumple Original does.
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And one thing I forgot to question... I also never saw Mew kill people right away, the only time I remember the same one using TK for something of the genre, was to escape and destroy the lab.
Where exactly Shadow Mewtwo are used to kill cruelly human, pokemons and other things!? I already read that the same are used as fighting machines, but I never read or saw any information of it using its powers to kill other beings.
Where exactly Shadow Mewtwo are used to kill cruelly human, pokemons and other things!? I already read that the same are used as fighting machines, but I never read or saw any information of it using its powers to kill other beings.
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That doesn't make sense. Rumple revives himself with Henry's faith in him, even though Henry is the one with the power?
False equivalency. Just because the dagger has a link with Rumple and is the source of the same power doesn't give it the same properties as a totally different magical item.
Except multiple scenes of this show that it's far from PIS.
Rumple's a force of nature. He almost always tries to kill others. Gaston, yes, he did turn into a rose off the bat. Yet he still force choked Gaston despite having all his powers in another scene. The fairy? He did kill with matter manipulation, after throwing her around for quite a bit. The man who accidentally slightly injured Baelfire? Put on a whole scene before turning him into a slug.
I can link any scene of season 7 as well as the OUAT wiki to prove that WR Rumple has never once used any hax other than BFR on anyone on-screen. If there's any chance for someone to just lolhax, it'd be a different version of Rumple.
I don't know about Black Swan Emma or Regina, but when Rumple killed the Black Fairy, he certainly did have the dagger in hand.
YES. EXACTLY. He tortures. The incredibly arrogant guy who'd torture Pan, flay Regina rather than just kill in the ways you're talking about (and he still has never used existence erasure). Plus, you keep on mentioning if Mewtwo leads with anything other than TK, he dies, but that's even more true for Rumple. If he doesn't lead with transmutation, and on second one no less, he dies. If Mewtwo doesn't lead with TK, he still just needs to touch Rumple with any kind of attack. Meanwhile, Rumple has a ton of things to choose from, with a handful that would work as well as a handful that he'd use right away. He tries to ignite Mewtwo like he did the ogres? Doesn't kill Mewtwo. He tries to put Mewtwo to sleep? Nonsleeper IQ. Doesn't work. Tries to take out his heart? Killed before he can get close. Other than transmutation, things like that are his bread and butter. Not the niche things like time stop or existence erasure, because he's never used them in combat before and wouldn't start now. The odds of Mewtwo not leading with TK are the same odds of Rumple leading with anything he hasn't used in combat before, and the fight won't last long enough for him to do so.
To prove me wrong, show me a scene of Rumple, and no one else, using any of these hax abilities besides transmutation to end a fight under five seconds. Rumple making a scene or gloating or hand-waving counts towards those seconds. I'll concede if you can show me this instance.
False equivalency. Just because the dagger has a link with Rumple and is the source of the same power doesn't give it the same properties as a totally different magical item.
Except multiple scenes of this show that it's far from PIS.
Rumple's a force of nature. He almost always tries to kill others. Gaston, yes, he did turn into a rose off the bat. Yet he still force choked Gaston despite having all his powers in another scene. The fairy? He did kill with matter manipulation, after throwing her around for quite a bit. The man who accidentally slightly injured Baelfire? Put on a whole scene before turning him into a slug.
I can link any scene of season 7 as well as the OUAT wiki to prove that WR Rumple has never once used any hax other than BFR on anyone on-screen. If there's any chance for someone to just lolhax, it'd be a different version of Rumple.
I don't know about Black Swan Emma or Regina, but when Rumple killed the Black Fairy, he certainly did have the dagger in hand.
YES. EXACTLY. He tortures. The incredibly arrogant guy who'd torture Pan, flay Regina rather than just kill in the ways you're talking about (and he still has never used existence erasure). Plus, you keep on mentioning if Mewtwo leads with anything other than TK, he dies, but that's even more true for Rumple. If he doesn't lead with transmutation, and on second one no less, he dies. If Mewtwo doesn't lead with TK, he still just needs to touch Rumple with any kind of attack. Meanwhile, Rumple has a ton of things to choose from, with a handful that would work as well as a handful that he'd use right away. He tries to ignite Mewtwo like he did the ogres? Doesn't kill Mewtwo. He tries to put Mewtwo to sleep? Nonsleeper IQ. Doesn't work. Tries to take out his heart? Killed before he can get close. Other than transmutation, things like that are his bread and butter. Not the niche things like time stop or existence erasure, because he's never used them in combat before and wouldn't start now. The odds of Mewtwo not leading with TK are the same odds of Rumple leading with anything he hasn't used in combat before, and the fight won't last long enough for him to do so.
To prove me wrong, show me a scene of Rumple, and no one else, using any of these hax abilities besides transmutation to end a fight under five seconds. Rumple making a scene or gloating or hand-waving counts towards those seconds. I'll concede if you can show me this instance.
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"Because its battle abilities were raised to the ultimate level, it thinks only of defeating its foes."MostPowerfull said:
"Said to rest quietly in an undiscovered cave, this Pokémon was created solely for battling."
"Because its battle abilities were raised to the ultimate level, it thinks only of defeating its foes."
"A Pokémon created by recombining Mew's genes. It's said to have the most savage heart among Pokémon."
And most importantly...
"It uses its highly developed psychic powers to defeat its enemies before they even have time to think."
Rumple gets brutally killed because of the insane difference between Rumple's durability and Mewtwo's AP. Reason random Pikachus aren't getting popped by balloons is because Game Freak doesn't think of Pokemon's strength like we do.
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Oh God! Henry's Faith in Rumple was why Rumple was able to use the Author's powers. When Regina convinced him that this was wrong, Rumple immediately lost these external powers.
Except for the fact that both work identically? And there is still the fact of being openly stated in the work, that few items within OUAT, can kill Rumple, so... And now that I remembered, even Dark Swan was able to resist the matter manipulation of Holy Grail, after achieving the powers of a Dark One! Because telekinesis in this level would work, when it matter manipulation on the similar level failed in affect Dark Swan... Try again!
In almost every moment and even in danger, Rumple almost never uses his powers to kill or incapacitate someone, for example, he could have simply killed Cora, where he says he is superior to her, but simply joins Regina to do something. Same with Facilier or others!
Nope! It is extremely rare for Rumple to try to kill someone and when he goes for that purpose he usually succeeds. Gaston went after him, threatening to return Bela and was immediately transmuted. The man who injured Baelfire was transmuted and killed, even with Bael begging Rumple not to do so. Rumple simply came and killed a fairy, just to take his wand, literally without any prior warning.
Where did he play with any of them? You must have seen another OUAT, which I did not see.
LOL! WR Rumple is exactly like Original Rumple, who was already killing on a whim, but being extremely evil. The only time he killed someone on-screen was when he simply killed Facilier while he was distracted. Try again!
Yes, Dark Swan also used the same skill, without even any magic experience, and did not have to use the Dagger. Incredible, no !? Keep hiding through things that have been shown unnecessary.
Yes, when he has no reason to kill them, for having much more malefic plans for them. As for example, he simply did not kill Original Rumple, because his existence is attached to him and if he dies, he also dies.
This is not applied to Mew, as it is exactly the same situation that happened to Gaston ... A threat that will be immediately eliminated.
Mew tries to hurt Rumple with Elemental Manipulation? Energy Projection? Petrification? Anytime he uses it, he will be dead. With a Rumple thought or movement, it can be transmuted, petrified, erased from existence, disintegrated, induced to death, having its powers removed, and a host of other things that would be fatal to Mew.
Oh, ok! Killed a fairy immediately. After getting his Dark One powers, use Fire Manipulation to kill and desintegrated several ogres. In these two specific moments, he simply destroyed both in a few seconds and quickly. Bye!
Except for the fact that both work identically? And there is still the fact of being openly stated in the work, that few items within OUAT, can kill Rumple, so... And now that I remembered, even Dark Swan was able to resist the matter manipulation of Holy Grail, after achieving the powers of a Dark One! Because telekinesis in this level would work, when it matter manipulation on the similar level failed in affect Dark Swan... Try again!
In almost every moment and even in danger, Rumple almost never uses his powers to kill or incapacitate someone, for example, he could have simply killed Cora, where he says he is superior to her, but simply joins Regina to do something. Same with Facilier or others!
Nope! It is extremely rare for Rumple to try to kill someone and when he goes for that purpose he usually succeeds. Gaston went after him, threatening to return Bela and was immediately transmuted. The man who injured Baelfire was transmuted and killed, even with Bael begging Rumple not to do so. Rumple simply came and killed a fairy, just to take his wand, literally without any prior warning.
Where did he play with any of them? You must have seen another OUAT, which I did not see.
LOL! WR Rumple is exactly like Original Rumple, who was already killing on a whim, but being extremely evil. The only time he killed someone on-screen was when he simply killed Facilier while he was distracted. Try again!
Yes, Dark Swan also used the same skill, without even any magic experience, and did not have to use the Dagger. Incredible, no !? Keep hiding through things that have been shown unnecessary.
Yes, when he has no reason to kill them, for having much more malefic plans for them. As for example, he simply did not kill Original Rumple, because his existence is attached to him and if he dies, he also dies.
This is not applied to Mew, as it is exactly the same situation that happened to Gaston ... A threat that will be immediately eliminated.
Mew tries to hurt Rumple with Elemental Manipulation? Energy Projection? Petrification? Anytime he uses it, he will be dead. With a Rumple thought or movement, it can be transmuted, petrified, erased from existence, disintegrated, induced to death, having its powers removed, and a host of other things that would be fatal to Mew.
Oh, ok! Killed a fairy immediately. After getting his Dark One powers, use Fire Manipulation to kill and desintegrated several ogres. In these two specific moments, he simply destroyed both in a few seconds and quickly. Bye!
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"Think about defeating your enemies ..."
"Created to fight ..."
"Use your powers to quickly defeat your enemies ..."
Where exactly is it that he uses his powers to KILL the other user? Well, if that's what you're saying, he will not kill Rumple right away.
The reason Pikachu is not immediately killed ... Okay, I'll wait for the moment where he killed someone right away, because as far as I've seen, he's made to fight and not kill, unlike Rumple, which has already been shown on-screen, use your skills to kill someone immediately if he want. Rumple needs to show that he uses such skills to kill someone and so on, but Mew does not normally kill his opponents can not be taken into account, because the game does not think like us.
Rumple still winning in most of the cases!
"Created to fight ..."
"Use your powers to quickly defeat your enemies ..."
Where exactly is it that he uses his powers to KILL the other user? Well, if that's what you're saying, he will not kill Rumple right away.
The reason Pikachu is not immediately killed ... Okay, I'll wait for the moment where he killed someone right away, because as far as I've seen, he's made to fight and not kill, unlike Rumple, which has already been shown on-screen, use your skills to kill someone immediately if he want. Rumple needs to show that he uses such skills to kill someone and so on, but Mew does not normally kill his opponents can not be taken into account, because the game does not think like us.
Rumple still winning in most of the cases!
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Inconclusive for Cal's reasons.
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>Author
Doesn't Rumple need to have a pen and paper to use author powers anyway? And even then, still don't have proof that Rumple can undo his own death.
>Medallion=Dagger
The statement that only few things in the OUAT universe can kill Rumple means nothing here. What, if I threw Rumple against Lavos, would it stand? Rumple has never been hit by a 5-A attack.
>Emma
...and? What's your point?
>Rumple's killing streak
You yourself said he killed more than anyone else, so now you're contradicting yourself. Gaston is the only one in there that would make a difference. The Baelfire man? Rumple took his sweet time to transmute him. Fairy? If anything, that proves my point more, as that wasn't a hax attack.
>Facilier
Right. Because being stabbed in the back not only would kill Mewtwo, but is totally a sign of hax
>Emma did it without dagger
For the last time, preferences. Emma isn't Rumple. While I have no doubt that he could do it, whether he would do it or not is up in the air.
>No reason
Keep in mind that suring his first confrontation with Gaston, he uses telekinesis. And when he wanted to kill Regina, he was going to flay her.
>Anything else results in death
Double edged sword. Rumple needs to hax with the right hax and not die in the meantime. Much more difficult than Mewtwo getting a single hit in even without telekinesis.
>Linked scenes
Seeet! Neither of those ignore durability and would therefore be a minor nuisance to Mewtwo.
>Kill
Have you read standard battle assumptions? Like, you're sounding like one of those guys who'd say that Superman would always lose because he never kills. Not only that, but you're nitpicking hard. Put Rumple against someone like Wisemon and see how that logic holds up. And still, defeated Rumple equals a dead Rumple with that AP gap. Mewtwo could accidentally kill him with that durability.
Rumple wins if he instantly spams things he's never instantly spammed before.
Doesn't Rumple need to have a pen and paper to use author powers anyway? And even then, still don't have proof that Rumple can undo his own death.
>Medallion=Dagger
The statement that only few things in the OUAT universe can kill Rumple means nothing here. What, if I threw Rumple against Lavos, would it stand? Rumple has never been hit by a 5-A attack.
>Emma
...and? What's your point?
>Rumple's killing streak
You yourself said he killed more than anyone else, so now you're contradicting yourself. Gaston is the only one in there that would make a difference. The Baelfire man? Rumple took his sweet time to transmute him. Fairy? If anything, that proves my point more, as that wasn't a hax attack.
>Facilier
Right. Because being stabbed in the back not only would kill Mewtwo, but is totally a sign of hax
>Emma did it without dagger
For the last time, preferences. Emma isn't Rumple. While I have no doubt that he could do it, whether he would do it or not is up in the air.
>No reason
Keep in mind that suring his first confrontation with Gaston, he uses telekinesis. And when he wanted to kill Regina, he was going to flay her.
>Anything else results in death
Double edged sword. Rumple needs to hax with the right hax and not die in the meantime. Much more difficult than Mewtwo getting a single hit in even without telekinesis.
>Linked scenes
Seeet! Neither of those ignore durability and would therefore be a minor nuisance to Mewtwo.
>Kill
Have you read standard battle assumptions? Like, you're sounding like one of those guys who'd say that Superman would always lose because he never kills. Not only that, but you're nitpicking hard. Put Rumple against someone like Wisemon and see how that logic holds up. And still, defeated Rumple equals a dead Rumple with that AP gap. Mewtwo could accidentally kill him with that durability.
Rumple wins if he instantly spams things he's never instantly spammed before.
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Henry altered the destiny of WR Blue Fairy without writing anything, simply by believing. And Rumple also almost managed to change the fate of everyone present, simply by wanting, while WR Henry tried to kill Regina.
Waiting for you to stop hiding behind PIS.
Except for the fact that there are dozens of abilities within the work and none of them is able to previously kill Rumple except Dark One Dagger, Excalibur, Acheron Water's and Olympian Crystal.
Again, why would it kill him, when stronger or similar powers could not?
Emma resisted and survived being turned into powder by the Holy Grail. Why would a similar level of telekinesis work in Ultimate WR Rumple?
I also said that this was never shown on-screen, so I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to distort my words.
He killed Gaston, the man and the fairy quickly and without remorse. Expecting where something here proves your point, when you've just been refuted just in the fairy's feat.
Matter Manipulation is not a haxxed attack? Oh, ok .... Just pitiful!
Yes and continues to prove that WR Rumple has no problem killing someone, instead of just torturing, why Rumple torturing a random threat por no reasons?
Try again!
Yeah, and this keeps proving that he does not need the dagger to do it, just like he did against the fairy. Try again!
LOL! The first time he saw Gaston, he was about to make a deal and not kill anyone. When he threatened him, he simply transmuted it.
Regina was guilty of Bela's death.
Try again!
Except for the fact that whatever Mew does, he can be revoked and killed immediately by Rumple. And also to the fact that you did not show Mew killing someone right away.
Matter Manipulation dont ignore durability? Burn someone from the inside out to ignore durability? Oh God! Its a hilarious...
Oh yes, the same SBA that uses the in-character character, in which you did not at any time show that Mew kills someone immediately, but wants Rumple doing it so Mew has a chance? You are clearly saying that Mew will simply use TK at all times and in any circumstances where most of the time, he will die for not having resistance to practically no hax of Rumple and Rumple would have no defense against Mewtwo... Hilarious!
Rumple would win most of the time.
Waiting for you to stop hiding behind PIS.
Except for the fact that there are dozens of abilities within the work and none of them is able to previously kill Rumple except Dark One Dagger, Excalibur, Acheron Water's and Olympian Crystal.
Again, why would it kill him, when stronger or similar powers could not?
Emma resisted and survived being turned into powder by the Holy Grail. Why would a similar level of telekinesis work in Ultimate WR Rumple?
I also said that this was never shown on-screen, so I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to distort my words.
He killed Gaston, the man and the fairy quickly and without remorse. Expecting where something here proves your point, when you've just been refuted just in the fairy's feat.
Matter Manipulation is not a haxxed attack? Oh, ok .... Just pitiful!
Yes and continues to prove that WR Rumple has no problem killing someone, instead of just torturing, why Rumple torturing a random threat por no reasons?
Try again!
Yeah, and this keeps proving that he does not need the dagger to do it, just like he did against the fairy. Try again!
LOL! The first time he saw Gaston, he was about to make a deal and not kill anyone. When he threatened him, he simply transmuted it.
Regina was guilty of Bela's death.
Try again!
Except for the fact that whatever Mew does, he can be revoked and killed immediately by Rumple. And also to the fact that you did not show Mew killing someone right away.
Matter Manipulation dont ignore durability? Burn someone from the inside out to ignore durability? Oh God! Its a hilarious...
Oh yes, the same SBA that uses the in-character character, in which you did not at any time show that Mew kills someone immediately, but wants Rumple doing it so Mew has a chance? You are clearly saying that Mew will simply use TK at all times and in any circumstances where most of the time, he will die for not having resistance to practically no hax of Rumple and Rumple would have no defense against Mewtwo... Hilarious!
Rumple would win most of the time.
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That's it. Putting Rumple against Lavos...
>Alter Fate
You clearly don't know what PIS means. And won't matter when Rumple's dead. All the examples you're providing are for still living people. Unless you prove to me that Rumple is Yhwach now, I can't take you seriously. Not to mention that totally invalidates the existence of the pen in the first place.
>Can't Kill Rumple
Guess I better give Ganon resistance to everything in the Zelda universe because only the Master Sword can kill him. No. You don't get anywhere without feats.
>Holy Grail
Because Emma is small country level and Mewtwo's several dozens of times stronger than Rumple's AP, and several million times above his durability. Also that's not telekinesis.
>Gaston, man, fairy
Gaston, sure. The man, that took two freaking minutes. Fairy, it's a massive extrapolation to say that's matter manipulation and he just didn't disintegrate her with pure AP. I guess all Kamehamehas are matter manipulation?
>Torture
Because that's what sadists do.
>With or without dagger
Unless you're talking about the Black Fairy, that was not matter manipulation. Not without evidence and all the evidence I saw was someone getting killed by an attack stronger than their durability. You're reaching.
>Gaston
Still ignoring the fact that during the first time Rumple was going to kill Gaston, he solely used telekinesis.
>Omce Mewtwo's attack is launched, Rumple has no means to stop it without reaching into NLF territory. Mewtwo's massively stronger than the baseline Rumple's AP at 411 yottatons.
>Ignore durability
That's not matter manipulation. Have someone outright say that she was reduced to molecules or the like and then sure. But until then? You're wanking the feat. Burning someone from the inside out doesn't ignore the durability of someone who is stronger than you down to the eyelash.
>Immediate killing
You're ignoring blatant statements of lore to fit your needs and it's getting annoying. I don't need to show Mewtwo killing because I have already posted lore statements saying that he defeats his enemies right away. You need to follow suit. Standard battle assumptions state that their in character but willing to kill, and any flaws and strategies are still in place. Mewtwo's strategies? Defeat and win with psychic powers ASAP, as per lore. Mewtwo doesn't have any battle flaws because it wasn't engineered with any. Has obvious flaws that you're ignoring, and all the instances being posted of him killing right away won't kill Mewtwo.
>Alter Fate
You clearly don't know what PIS means. And won't matter when Rumple's dead. All the examples you're providing are for still living people. Unless you prove to me that Rumple is Yhwach now, I can't take you seriously. Not to mention that totally invalidates the existence of the pen in the first place.
>Can't Kill Rumple
Guess I better give Ganon resistance to everything in the Zelda universe because only the Master Sword can kill him. No. You don't get anywhere without feats.
>Holy Grail
Because Emma is small country level and Mewtwo's several dozens of times stronger than Rumple's AP, and several million times above his durability. Also that's not telekinesis.
>Gaston, man, fairy
Gaston, sure. The man, that took two freaking minutes. Fairy, it's a massive extrapolation to say that's matter manipulation and he just didn't disintegrate her with pure AP. I guess all Kamehamehas are matter manipulation?
>Torture
Because that's what sadists do.
>With or without dagger
Unless you're talking about the Black Fairy, that was not matter manipulation. Not without evidence and all the evidence I saw was someone getting killed by an attack stronger than their durability. You're reaching.
>Gaston
Still ignoring the fact that during the first time Rumple was going to kill Gaston, he solely used telekinesis.
>Omce Mewtwo's attack is launched, Rumple has no means to stop it without reaching into NLF territory. Mewtwo's massively stronger than the baseline Rumple's AP at 411 yottatons.
>Ignore durability
That's not matter manipulation. Have someone outright say that she was reduced to molecules or the like and then sure. But until then? You're wanking the feat. Burning someone from the inside out doesn't ignore the durability of someone who is stronger than you down to the eyelash.
>Immediate killing
You're ignoring blatant statements of lore to fit your needs and it's getting annoying. I don't need to show Mewtwo killing because I have already posted lore statements saying that he defeats his enemies right away. You need to follow suit. Standard battle assumptions state that their in character but willing to kill, and any flaws and strategies are still in place. Mewtwo's strategies? Defeat and win with psychic powers ASAP, as per lore. Mewtwo doesn't have any battle flaws because it wasn't engineered with any. Has obvious flaws that you're ignoring, and all the instances being posted of him killing right away won't kill Mewtwo.
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Incon for Cal's reasons
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Ok... After such a thing, I will not even argue ...
Compare Rumple making a fairy explode and disappear in dust and smoke with a kamehameha... DUDE!
About the author power and W.R Henry... And Rumple use his powers through Henry's faith in him. The Author Power can be used to raise the deads. It's the only thing I'm going to say and that's just proof Rumple would win this battle.
This is my limit! I do not want to be part of this anymore, it's... Argh! Bye!
Compare Rumple making a fairy explode and disappear in dust and smoke with a kamehameha... DUDE!
About the author power and W.R Henry... And Rumple use his powers through Henry's faith in him. The Author Power can be used to raise the deads. It's the only thing I'm going to say and that's just proof Rumple would win this battle.
This is my limit! I do not want to be part of this anymore, it's... Argh! Bye!
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Before I can have a word in here, I've got a question: is 411 yottatons actually that stronger than creating hundreds of new planet-sized realms? I mean, just for sure.
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bump
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bum p
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mewtwo FRA
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What is "Mewtwo FRA" if no Mewtwo reasoning was actually given? I meam, everything Cal's written leads to incon.
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Then incon FRA
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5 - 5 then
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Incon FRA
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bump
ABoogieYesSir
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Changing my vote to Inconc FRA
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Yep
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Rump FRA
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Inconclusive for sure. It's literally AP vs Hax both of which has both characters easily killing the other. Like what Cal said earlier
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