MCU Low 2-C downgrade.

[ManatheMagician]

Infinity Ultron nor watches nor strange should be low 2-C imo.
We do not know what strange was referring to when he said watcher could reverse a timeline destruction. It could have been hax rather than actual AP.

Ultron also did not destroy any of the universes he was punching watcher in, he punched them into other ones, any cosmic goop wog nonsense is a after-effect of the boundaries between the timelines being damaged.
(also the scene shows them returning back to previous universes between punches).



1:24

In short, all of them should legit have low 2-C via hax alone and at least 3-B AP (cuz utron size + statement about destroying galaxies with a thought being a very casual thing.)

------

Ultron needed to amp himself to affect timelines to the point they would turn into goop after punching thru them as shown when he escalated from punches at the start of the battle to a 3-B feat.

Also stones are not powering him constantly at all times since he has had stones removed from him and they canonically glow when active.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

But here is an upgrade for you too.
Since ultron is beyond the visible universe and can reach watcher in a space between timelines, they should have immesurable travel speed.

That is not immeasurable in the slightest. Nor do they ever display immeasurable speed in the series

at least 3-C AP.

From where?

 

[ManatheMagician]

isnt moving outside of time itself immesurable? if not, then just ignore that part of the thread.

At least 3-C from giant ultron biting down on galaxies and ultron's statement about being able to destroy galaxies with a thought.

In short, my conclusion is
At least 3-C physically, Low 2-C with hax for ultron and watcher.

 

[DarlingAurora]

...

 

[ManatheMagician]

...

???

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

isnt moving outside of time itself immesurable? if not, then just ignore that part of the thread.

At least 3-C from giant ultron biting down on galaxies and ultron's statement about being able to destroy galaxies with a thought.

In short, my conclusion is
At least 3-C physically, Low 2-C with hax for ultron and watcher.

Moving outside of time isn't immeasurable, moving through time is. Even if it was, their fight would be happening faster than anything else ever shown in the series and it clearly wasn't considering normal citizens were reacting to the fight and the Guardians of the Multiverse still fight with Ultron.

Ultron would be 3-B given size since his head alone was about half the size of a galaxy. On average, a head is about 1/8th of a body so that means his total self would be about 4 galaxies in size

 

[ManatheMagician]

At least 3-B then.
Lemme change the OP.

Also, it is clear that his initial punches with watcher are not Low 2-C since Ultron then escalates the fight by growing to 3-B size.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

isnt moving outside of time itself immesurable? if not, then just ignore that part of the thread.

That was abandoned years ago

At least 3-C from giant ultron biting down on galaxies

That Ultron is 3-B

ultron's statement about being able to destroy galaxies with a thought.

That was calced at 4-A

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't have any opinion on Low 2-C tbh, I'll just wait for what the Low 2-C have to say

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Considering it took a massive amount of power to destroy the absolute point it would also probably take a lot of power to put it back together and even then watcher and vultron would still scale above strange destroying it

There is clearly a difference between them simply flying into another universe and destroy them seeing as there are clearly different effects for when vultron is punching the watcher and when they are flying. Plus it’s pretty much confirmed by WoG what is happening in the punching scene and where are you getting the timeline stuff from?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Me too, not really the best to talk about it given that I wasn't the one who came up with the arguments

 

[Thelastmlg]

I agree with uatu being pretty vague, but you don't need to destroy universes to be low 2-C, significantly affecting them is enough, and i think turning them into a "messy universe soup" is significant enough.

There is doctor strange slowing and then shielding himself and a small area from the collapse of a timeline.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Though the absolute point looked more like causality enforcing it rather than sheer power, not sure

 

[Dalesean027]

Completely disagree Ultron himself is shown being able to significantly effect a timeline through punches alone

 

[ManatheMagician]

I agree with uatu being too vague, but you don't need to destroy universes to be low 2-C, significantly affecting them is enough, and i think turning them into a "messy universe soup" is significant enough.

There is doctor strange slowing and then shielding himself and a small area from the collapse of a timeline.

That is hax, also, since they return to the same universe between punches, it is clear that Ultron's physical punches are not low 2-C.


I repeat that i am not against low 2-C.
I am against it being their physical ratings.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Also i'll be honest, do we have confirmation that his retcon punches affected the whole universe rather than say, the planet or even city?

I'm leaning towards believing it, since if it was localized it would probably be shown, like localized time stops, but do we have anything kmplying it harder?

 

[ManatheMagician]

Completely disagree Ultron himself is shown being able to significantly effect a timeline through punches alone

It is clear that his physical punches are not low 2-C tho.
He escalates from punching Uatu into a 3-B feat.

since they return to the same worlds between punching, it is clear that the "universal goop" is an after effect after they leave said worlds.

 

[Dienomite22]

Also i'll be honest, do we have confirmation that his retcon punches affected the whole universe rather than say, the planet or even city?

I'm leaning towards believing it, since if it was localized it would probably be shown, like localized time stops, but do we have anything kmplying it harder?

This

VS Battles Wiki

The VS Battles Wiki is a site that aims to index the statistics, powers and abilities of characters and weapons from a wide variety of fictional franchises. Feel free to visit or help out!

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Dalesean027]

Also i'll be honest, do we have confirmation that his retcon punches affected the whole universe rather than say, the planet or even city?

I'm leaning towards believing it, since if it was localized it would probably be shown, like localized time stops, but do we have anything kmplying it harder?

WoG literally has the statement that Ultron was turning universe's into a messy soup

 

[ManatheMagician]

Also i'll be honest, do we have confirmation that his retcon punches affected the whole universe rather than say, the planet or even city?

I'm leaning towards believing it, since if it was localized it would probably be shown, like localized time stops, but do we have anything kmplying it harder?

This too.
"Universal goop" is too vague to contribute to physical feats, it can also be linked to absolute points.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Is a after effect caused by his punches, yes, that's low 2-C, it doesn't need to be immediate, he left them in a bad state and they turned into soup, that's significantly affecting

 

[ManatheMagician]

WoG literally has the statement that Ultron was turning universe's into a messy soup

Already explained it is not low 2-C at as a direct result of his punches, but an after effect.

 

[Dalesean027]

This too.
"Universal goop" is too vague to contribute to physical feats, it can also be linked to absolute points.

That literally doesn't matter and assuming absolute points is taking extra steps and headcanon when we see the feat and have WoG i think that's more than enough

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Already explained it is not low 2-C at as a direct result of his punches, but an after effect.

Imma just point out this on the tiering system page

 

[Thelastmlg]

After effects caused by the punch is a direct effect though, because it is being caused hy the punches.

Punch => significant affect => low 2-C

 

[ManatheMagician]

That literally doesn't matter and assuming absolute points is taking extra steps and headcanon when we see the feat and have WoG i think that's more than enough

I still find it too vague when minutes before it is shown above reasonable doubts that ultron himself escalates the battle with a 3-B after punching uatu.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

This is literally referring to the scene in which ultron repeatedly punches the watcher. How in the world is that not physical statistics?

 

[ManatheMagician]

Low 2-C affecting punches > 3-B giant ultron > start of fight punches.

 

[Dienomite22]

I disagree. You don't need to destroy or create a universal space-time continuum to be Low 2-C and the feats seem clear cut to me.

"Significantly affect" is here used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with one's own, etc."

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Also i'll be honest, do we have confirmation that his retcon punches affected the whole universe rather than say, the planet or even city?

I'm leaning towards believing it, since if it was localized it would probably be shown, like localized time stops, but do we have anything kmplying it harder?

It’s literally stated by WoG that he was turning universes into a messy soup by punching them
"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing".
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-mcu-fan-complaints-infinity-stones-what-if

 

[ManatheMagician]

This is literally referring to the scene in which ultron repeatedly punches the watcher. How in the world is that not physical statistics?

He punches uatu into the wakanda world twice between punches.

 

[ManatheMagician]

It’s literally stated by WoG that he was turning universes into a messy soup by punching them
"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing".
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-mcu-fan-complaints-infinity-stones-what-if

Then this proves my point.
Without stone amping, Ultron's punches are not low 2-C.

 

[Thelastmlg]

this is not amping, this is him using his power source, he is symphoning the stones all the time his punches even have their color as auras

 

[ManatheMagician]

Stone amp punches > 3-B giant ultron > unamped ultron physical stats.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He punches uatu into the wakanda world twice between punches.

We’re is this shown? And even if he did it would still be a different version of said wakanda world

 

[sanicspood]

ultron is literally powered by all 6 of them constantly tho-

 

[Dalesean027]

The stones are literally fused into him these are his physical stats he literally remade his body for this

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The stones weren't glowing when he was punching The Watcher into the ground, and we see the stones glow whenever they're being used

 

[Dienomite22]

Then this proves my point.
Without stone amping, Ultron's punches are not low 2-C.

He's not really amping as his power source (the stones) are literally embed into him

 

[ManatheMagician]

Wrong.

in the final battle, he has the soul stone stolen from him and still functions just fine.