Massive TOG Revisions (General Discussion + Some General Revisions)

[SinsofMan]

The blog seems sort of wishy washy regarding the topic and seems the 'potential' is what got them scared. So I think we agreed that all rankers get 'At Least 7-A'.


@Enryu Hey man, you dont need to stop being active on the verse. You are still incredibly valuable and can help ╠ÂM╠Âa╠Âk╠Âe╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âi╠Âs╠ ╠Âv╠Âe╠Âr╠Âs╠Âe╠ ╠Âg╠Âr╠Âe╠Âa╠Ât╠ ╠Âa╠Âg╠Âa╠Âi╠Ân╠ with the scaling + profiles. All the controversial stuff is out of the way.

I guess I have a part two to add. Which are the following points:


I think Shinsoo Explosion techniques should be listed as Explosion Manipulation, Durability Negation and Limited Matter/Energy Manipulation.


Admitedly, the last one is a reach. But for the first two; since these explosions happen inside the body, they ignore conventional durability. Considering Shinsoo replaces Matter in the tower (sort of), the reasoning goes this.

>Flow Control techniques manipulate the Shinsoo in the user and can be used to blow up things. >For Reverse Flow Control, we argue that Shinsoo replaces the matter inside the tower such as gaseous matter >If we are being consistent, if Shinsoo replaces Matter and energy, when exploding someones shinsoo, it should be considered 'blowing up matter'. Thoughts? I honestly think this is a reach but I want to put that out there.

We already are giving resistance based on Shinsoo so we need to figure out what the specifics are from my original post. Lero ro stated those on the 20th floor go mad from shinsoo abudance so it should likely scale to anyone in the series.

The question is what type of madness Manipulation it falls under. I might have missed a few things regarding Shinsoo and Resistances, but this baseline once accepted we can add these changes immediately.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I think Explosion/Dura negation is fine.

And I agree with all of the resistances except disease, since it isn't related to anything like that. Them being sick is just a reaction of not being able to handle the shinsoo. The Madness is probably type 2, although you don't really need to specify it.

On the topic on shinsoo density, should that scale to their lifting strength? Considering shinsoo density is kind of like increased gravity.

 

[SinsofMan]

I think Explosion/Dura negation is fine.
And I agree with all of the resistances except disease, since it isn't related to anything like that. Them being sick is just a reaction of not being able to handle the shinsoo. The Madness is probably type 2, although you don't really need to specify it.

On the topic on shinsoo density, should that scale to their lifting strength? Considering shinsoo density is kind of like increased gravity.

Ideally it can be; but without a reference of the density we would be grasping at at straws.

And that is fine, makes sense to me.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's true.

Although maybe those that have an "Unknown" rating can get something like "Superhuman (As you go further up the Tower the density of the shinsoo increases, requiring more and more strength to even just walk normally)". Or something along those lines, maybe you can think of better wording.

 

[SinsofMan]

That's true.
Although maybe those that have an "Unknown" rating can get something like "Superhuman (As you go further up the Tower the density of the shinsoo increases, requiring more and more strength to even just walk normally)". Or something along those lines, maybe you can think of better wording.

I am fine with Likely Superhuman strength rating for most regulars who can move in liquid shinsoo and possibly Superhuman for those just moving up the tower.

For now. I think we have lifting strength we can dig up.

 

[Kevenkiller]

Yuri said she can lift this mountain.

 

[SinsofMan]

snip

I am unsure if we accept 'ripping' as lifting strength. You might have to ask a staff member for this.

If we do; then Class T for Yuri, Possibly Class T for most other rankers and At least Class T for those stronger then Yuri.

 

[AstralKing7]

Ripping is pulling strength which is apart of lifting strength

 

[SinsofMan]

Ripping is pulling strength which is apart of lifting strength

Well assuming we cant to get someone to calc that, possibly/likely Class T is fine.

 

[AstralKing7]

I'd agree

 

[JBennett]

Sorry to ask but what is the topic of disuccion? I'm aware of the lifting strength but for Baam(Last Station) being compared to Charli/Rankers, what's the topic? and his Rating? Sorry for not paying attention, this CRT has sliped my mindfor a while.

 

[SinsofMan]

Sorry to ask but what is the topic of disuccion? I'm aware of the lifting strength but for Baam(Last Station) being compared to Charli/Rankers, what's the topic? and his Rating?
Sorry for not paying attention, this CRT has sliped my mindfor a while.

Enryu argued that Charlie is comparable to Baam and Baam is likely stronger. i disagreed.

He conceded. Now are talking roughly about Shinsoo in the tower, lifting strength etc.

I will also likely ask for a calc evaluation for the feats I suggested above as it seems Low 7-C, Low 7-B and 6-C ratings are going to go.

 

[JBennett]

I'm not a calc member so I can't say anything for Low 7-C and Low 7-B but for the two 6-C feats I can comment on.

For the Maschenny Feat there is little information on it so one can take the interpertaion either way, either she creats it or just adds lightning to it. From the images from just before she ate the Radan there shown to be little clouds in the air and those shown looked to light compared to the clounds she used.

For Baam here's the thing, it was never stated that he 'actually did shook the floor but rather he had 'the power to shake it'. Personally I was nuteral on this one but I never saw a problem with it.

 

[SinsofMan]

snip

The sky was pretty dark whenever she use Redan; it seems there was already clouds there.

Also, if it is a hypothetical feat anyway, 'shaking' the floor could mean alot either the entire floor of the outer tower or all the floor which includes the inner tower as well.

So it could be higher or lower; it is too vague. Most of the time we assume that the feats regarding the floor is the complete floor (IE: Both the inner and outer tower floors.).

But for the Hidden Floor, we are missing which it could be.

I am fine sometimes with hypothetical feats; but considering the other two calcs would drop the verse to Low 7-B; even if I accepted the feat, 6-C is looking pretty outlierish.

So just a bunch of small nitpicks I have.

Although for Redan; it is clear Mascheny did at the minimum electrify the air, so we can use CAPE and the feat would still be fine. I think the floor shaking could be higher or lower and it might be best to shelve the feat for now.

 

[JBennett]

Like I said the images are too vauge to give us information on what she actually does.

Its not that far off compared to Maschenny since that feat was done with the Radan and that was completly inefective to Jahard and Baam was able to contend with Jahard even before he ignited the Thorn but if you think its best to hold off on it due to lack of information then thats fine I'm satified with 7-A. for this Arc.

 

[SinsofMan]

Since most of the above ratings + suggestions were suggested (minus durability).

Are we all in favor of the revisions? If so, we can knock the easy ones out of the way. (Like the 6-C and Low 7-B ratings). as well the general scaling revisions.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I think it should be fine. Although a staff should probably be contacted first.

 

[SinsofMan]

I think it should be fine. Although a staff should probably be contacted first.

There isnt staff that knows the series to my knowledge.

Otherwise I would have asked them first.

 

[Antvasima]

It would help if somebody writes a summary of what you want to do here.

After that is done, you can ask some of the following VS Battles Staff members to comment here:

SomebodyData

Dragonmasterxyz

Celestial Pegasus

Dark649

Monarch Laciel

Saikou The Lewd King

Gemmysaur

Ultima Reality

DarkDragonMedeus

AKM Sama

Dargoo Faust

MrKingOfNegativity

Theglassman12

Wokistan

Andytrenom

Qawsedf234

Crabwhale

Crimson Azoth

Sir Ovens

Warren Valion

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Well, that's the summary of what the was accepted:

For Baam (Floor of Death Arc/Hidden Floor Arc/Pre-Revoultion), Androssi (Hidden Floor Arc) and Data Yu Han Sung will be downgrade to "At least High 7-C"

For Base Data Maschenny and Base Baam (Post-Revolution and Last Station Arc) will be "Low 7-B (1.81 Megatons), likely 7-B (44.62 Megatons)"

For Data Maschenny with Redan and Baam in TSM will be "At least Low 7-B+ (5.44 Megatons), likely 7-A (133.88 Megatons) via CAPE and Condensatio"

For Data Zahard, Data Eduan, Baam in TSM with FTI and Baam in BMM will be "7-B (10.88 Megatons), likely 7-A (267.76 Megatons)"

For Data Zahard, Data Eduan and Baam in TSM with FTI both at Full power are three times stronger than before in other words they will be "At least 7-B (32.64 Megatons), likely 7-A+ (803.28 Megatons)" at their Full Power

For every standard Ranker will be "At least 7-A+" for being superior to Baam in TSM with FTI when using his Full Power

For Base Real Maschenny, Base Kallavan and Hell Joe transformed will be "6-B (29 Teratons)" since they will be scaled to casual 10% Urek without shinsoo

For Evankhell,Royale Elliot, Ha Jinsung and Kallavan in Essence of Bravery Mode will be "6-B+ (59 Teratons)"

Enyru: At least' '6-A, possibly High 6-A (Superior to the Adminstrator of the 43rd floor and killed him; causing complete chaos and unpredictable shinsoo patterns on the floor.)

Phantaminum: At least 6-A, likely High 6-A (Superior to Enyru by an unknown amount.)

Everyone who lives in the Tower must have:

Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and/or 3) and Fear Manipulation (Lero Ro describes those inside the tower can resist the shinsoo effects of the higher floors, which can drive other regular humans mad and cause them to fall into despair)

Minor Resistance to Disease Manipulation (We also see in the same chapter that same regular who went mad was also sick and vomiting, so other climbers should be similarly resistant to such negative effects)

Minor Resistance to Matter Manipulation (We already know that Reverse-Flow Control allows for brief stopping in freezing opponents on a molecular level. This one admitedly should not apply to everyone, however those who can move and walk in highly dense Shinsoo areas that would make it difficult to move in, such as the Liquid Pool on the first floor should have access to this ability)

Resistance to Energy Manipulation/Energy Density (Shinsoo IS energy, now I am not saying Shinsoo can't hurt regulars/rankers. But Shinsoo Resistance is actually pretty common)

Lifting Strength for Regulars, standard Rankers and data humans: SuperHuman (As you go further up the Tower the density of the shinsoo increases, requiring more and more strength to even just walk normally)

Lifting Strength for anyone comparable to Yuri: Class T (Since Yuri confimed that she can lift a mountain)

For Baam, Karaka and Ha Jinsung:

Durability Negation (Since these explosions happen inside the body using Floral Butterfly Piercing Technique, they ignore conventional durability)

For Administrators:

The Administrators should get Empathic Manipulation (One of the administrators was able to completely seal the emotion of love or attraction involving Yeon Hana's opposite sex)

 

[SinsofMan]

I appreciate Enryu is back so I can finally ghost this crt long term ovo. But yes, the above changes were accepted. Basically just a matter of copy and paste.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Are there accepted calculations as a basis for all of the statistics?

 

[Ogbunabali]

There shouldn't be resistance to disease manip because they're getting sick as a reaction of the density of the shinsoo. Like going up in higher g force.

And I personally think Phantaminum should be straight up High 6-A, honestly.

 

[SinsofMan]

There shouldn't be resistance to disease manip because they're getting sick as a reaction of the density of the shinsoo. Like going up in higher g force.

And I personally think Phantaminum should be straight up High 6-A, honestly.

The latter is being strictly conservative as we dont know how he even fights yet. The former is.. Well I didnt know what to call it. But it is resistance to negative effects such as naseua and sickness.

 

[Ogbunabali]

It's definitely not disease manip since it's just a by product of the madness/density. It has nothing to do with diseases at all. I don't think it warrants it's own resistance when it's just a reaction of different stuff.

The quote about him destroying the Tower is lost, but there's still this one "Perhaps the Tower of God webtoon will end the day he gets bored of the Tower...". And we know a little bit of how he fights, he uses a weapon that no one has seen in the Tower and a very "wild" fighting style, but yeah that's all.

 

[SinsofMan]

Reaction to an adverse effect and no reaction implies the latter is a resistance. Even if is a 'small' one. My last thoughts on this. I still need to replace Low 7-C with another calc and the mountain bust needs to be recalced.

╠ÂB╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠ÂI╠ ╠Âa╠Âm╠ ╠Âa╠Âl╠Âs╠Âo╠ ╠Âs╠Âu╠Âp╠Âe╠Âr╠ ╠Âb╠Âu╠Âs╠Ây╠ ╠Âs╠Âo╠ ╠Âd╠Âo╠Ân╠Ât╠ ╠Âc╠Âo╠Âu╠Ân╠Ât╠ ╠Âo╠Ân╠ ╠Âm╠Âe╠Â

 

[Ogbunabali]

I never said it wasn't a resistance, just that it wasn't to disease because it has nothing to do with diseases rather a by reaction caused by the madness/density.

 

[AstralKing7]

Phantaminum was stated to end the whole series of TOG if he ever got tired of it. I'm pretty sure he should straight up be 6A

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@Ogbunabali

I think we should put this at least as: Minor Resistance to Limited Disease Manipulation?

 

[Ogbunabali]

But it has nothing to do with diseases, they get sick for the same reason why you get sick on higher g force, or when people throw up when they see a dead body. It's just a reaction to the density/madness stuff I don't see a reason to include resistance to disease at all.

 

[Antvasima]

You should still ask some staff members to help out with evaluating this.

 

[SinsofMan]

You should still ask some staff members to help out with evaluating this.

If it eases you conscience, DragonmasterXYZ is gonna be getting into the verse, and I can get him to look at this when he can.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask administrators and discussion moderators who do not know the series to help out with evaluations as well.