Massive Tier Upgrade For Setsuno

[Goodyfresh]

Based on far newer info in the manga, Setsuno should be rated as at least High 5-B, but probably a solid 5-A. I cite as evidence the fact that she was able to create a barrier surrounding of all of Human World (with a land area quite a bit larger than our own planet's) and able to deflect a partially-unsealed Jirou's "Guinness Punch" which was probably itself large-planet level considering the Nitro were worried Jirou would "blow the planet apart." In fact, Jirou, a solid 5-A character, is completely confident that no matter what he does in his fights with the Blue Nitro or anyone else, none of his attacks will be able to penetrate Setsuno's "Pressure Dome." Wouldn't this mean she has to be Tier 5-A like him? All seen here:

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It would seem that Granny there is in "all out" mode just like Jirou, and just like him normally holds back her true Ultimate Powahhh. She was, just like Jirou, apparently still in her held-back state when fighting Joa.

 

[Promestein]

High 5-B isn't a thing, but 5-A seems solid.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Prom said on the 5-B part. That would be Planet level+ then. 5-A seems alright to me given where everybody else is at and how i think Setsuno is supposed to be very high to top tier herself.

That and her page is pretty outdated AFAIK.

 

[Goodyfresh]

You guys think it should be okay to just go edit her page right now, then? I was thinking to change the tier to 5-A, and under Attack Potency I'd put "Large Planet Level via scaling from Jirou and her barriers being able to block his attacks." And I'd put the same under Durability.

What do you think we should do with her speed, guys? It should be FTL by scaling from Jirou and her being able to fight alongside him with no problem. Right? But this is just inference, as the best speed-feats we've really seen from her were against Chiyo and a couple others at Cooking Fest, but she was clearly massively holding back all of her abilitites at that point.

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't think Chiyo is on Jirou's level...sure, she deflected a Guiness punch but it was already spiralling and she didn't even take on the energy contained in the punch either.

She can be scaled to other high tier characters but certainly not Jirou.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So like Low 5-B characters like Buranchi? @Alakabamm

 

[Goodyfresh]

I don't think Chiyo is on Jirou's level...sure, she deflected a Guiness punch but it was already spiralling and she didn't even take on the energy contained in the punch either.
She can be scaled to other high tier characters but certainly not Jirou.

But the barrier did completely tank a punch and the Nitro were clearly worried that such a punch would blow apart the planet (like if it were directed straight down). The fact that it was already spiraling doesn't have much to do wtih it, the Guinness Punch can travel lightyears. . .Jirou said so before, that the punch can shoot off into space and travel to other solar systems.

The bigger point, to me at least, is Jirou's complete and utter confidence that he can fight to his heart's content but it won't damage Human World thanks to Setsuno. His strongest attacks are surely all 5-A since he is 5-A. He is completely confident that anything he throws out will be successfuly deflected by Setsuno's barrier. He acts reckless but he's actually a very smart guy, he wouldn't trust Setsuno to block all of his attacks unless she really could.

Also I'm sure it was just a typo but you called her "Chiyo" by mistake.

One last thing to note: Setsuno's tier being 6-A was due to her being scaled to Joa back when Joa was thought to be multi-continent to moon-level at best from observed feats. Joa is actually 5-A him/herself thanks to newer info. Therefore by how Setsuno's tier was originally determined, shouldn't she be 5-A?

 

[Alakabamm]

Yea, I meant Setsuno, sorry. I was thinking of the stadium arc.

It did not "completely tank a punch." The punch completely spiralled away and did not explode on the barrier, It did not tank it. I am not going to post the scans but if you actually look what I am saying is true.

If he was really confident he would have aimed towards the earth not the horizon. She also looked like she was dying with doing it.

Joie is much greater than Setsuno, that wasn't as clear back then but it is clear now.

 

[Alakabamm]

and yes I mean Brunch and co.

 

[Goodyfresh]

He still wouldn't aim downwards towards the earth because the planet itself would be destroyed. As the Blue Nitro themselves stated. And the punch doesn't "explode," it's not that kind of attack. It just bores through everything its path unless canceled-out by an equal attack (like Joa's Satan-Mince back at Cooking Fest) or repelled. The Guinness Punch never "detonates" at some point. Remember Jirou's statement that it would travel deep into space and reach other solar systems, even back when he was in his fully-sealed old-man state.

The fact that she was possibly dying in order to do it doesn't really matter, she's still capable of that level of power, reagardless of the means. Considering her barrier's strength and size (encompassing all of Human World, an area larger than our own planet by a good margin), she's clearly at least far higher than 6-A.

Perhaps her profile should be changed, like Jirou's, to list two separate versions: Her "normal" state and her "powered up" state. And under her weaknesses, we could add a note that in her powered-up state, in her old age, her energy drains over time to the point that if she strains too much she may die. However, this was only implied and not actually shown. Also, even her non-powered-up state should still be higher than 6-A, if you consider what we now know about Joa. Again, her tier was originally based on scaling from being able to mostly-block an attack from Joa, who was not known to be 5-A at the time. I suspect her non-powered-up state is 5-B (able to hold her own to some extent against a 5-A character like Joa). I really don't think that's preposterous at all considering she was originally just scaled from Joa anyway.

The question would then be what tier the powered-up state should be listed as. The fact that the barrier can bounce off a Guinness Punch (which doesn't explode but can be repelled or cancelled) from a mostly-unsealed (solid 5-A) Jirou, while encompassing a surface-area and volume (Human World and its atmosphere) larger than our own planet, makes me think it would be safe to put her powered-up state at 5-A. While making note that her stamina in that state is clearly limited and can potentially kill her. Let's also keep in mind that Tier 5-A attack-potency or durability has a multiplier of 19690 times between its high-end and low-end, so rating her 5-A while the God-Tiers are also 5-A really isn't such a stretch.

 

[Alakabamm]

Nope, there is no evidence she took the brunt of it, again. It got deflected. It did not even hit the earth where her barrier was and result in a strength contest.

And scaling from Joie is right out. He just beat Midora. He's currently in a fight involving all 8 kings. The only feat that she has that is close to that is deflecting Jirou's blow and even then it doesn't imply she needs an equal amount of power to do so.

So my answer is no.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Welp, time to take back my comment and sit this one in the BG's again...

 

[Alakabamm]

Also, how would a Guinness punch "destroy the planet" if it wasn't able to blow up?

 

[Goodyfresh]

Well people are all talking about the recent Derous Laser obviously being a Tier 5-A attack because of what it did to NEO and because Derous is 5-A, but it's a laser, it doesn't blow up, it just keeps on going. Guinness Punch is a near all-out attack from a character who is unanimously accepted as being Tier 5-A. It's literally, seemingly, his ultimate-technique in terms of sheer destructive power. Why and how would it not be Large Planet Level? Especially since Joa had to go into all-out Demon Mode in order to deflect it that one time at Cooking Fest. There's also the fact that the Blue Nitro freaked out about the attack being able to blow up the whole planet if Jirou aimed it wrong.

Also, even if it didn't block the punch completely head on, the punch still hit the dome at such an angle that in order to deflect it as it did, the dome had to be able to take the impact of a not-insignificant portion of the attack's kinetic energy. The dome deflected the punch from its trajectory by an angle of about 30 degrees. Even if that itself is not 5-A, against a 5-A attack that has to be 5-B. And the question of whether the attack will actually blow-up is irrelevant, if the energy in it is at Large Planet Level, then deflecting it by an angle takes a proportionately large amount of energy as well.

 

[Alakabamm]

Not really. It's not like it has a certain amount of KE. It is just a mass of energy.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Yet I didn't see the Blue Nitro eager to go run in front of it and try to deflect it. In fact they were making sure to get out of dodge. So it's an attack that a bunch of tier 5-A beings ran away from.

"Mass of energy" or not, if the Blue Nitro were afraid of it being able to hurt or kill them, or destroy the planet, then isn't the dome deflecting it by 30 degrees a significant feat?

 

[Alakabamm]

I think they were afraid of it carrying them away into deep space...as it ended up doing to a fragment of NEO and the Blue Nitro that looked like an anteater.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Alakabamm. She did not tank anywhere near the full force of Jirou's attacks.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Then what about the scale of it encompassing all of Human World? Which is easily at the high end of 5-B in terms of sheer size.

And also if the actual energy contained in the Guinness Punch was Tier 5-A, then if it took even only 0.01% of that energy to deflect it, that would be at least solid Tier 5-C right there (or higher depending on the level of 5-A power of the attack), deflected off of a small portion of the dome which covers a planet-level surface-area.

Again, though, I think the bigger point here, actually, is that her attack-potency and durability were originally tiered based on scaling from Joa. If Joa him/herself has been massively scaled-up since then, shouldn't Setsuno be scaled-up proportionally? Also, for her durability, it now says "Continent Level" because she "deflected an attack capable of destroying the entire Human World." The Human World is quite a bit larger than our own planet! Even if we're only talking about destroying the whole thing's crust, shouldn't that be at least High 6-A, not just 6-A? Anything capable of destroying Human World is easily at least on the very high-end of Multi-Continent Level.

If you ask me to, I'll drop it though. It's not really that big a deal anyway since Setsuno isn't a very important character in the series at this point.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well i know one thing is certain: Setsuno's page is really outdated as heck since the last time it was tiered like that. Perhaps her being adjusted to whatever is most appropriate would work either way IMO.

 

[Alakabamm]

What'cha mean? I think she is in the planet level range. She clearly is not Large Planet Level aka 5-A range but I don't even think low 5-B or 5-B is absurd.

And I believe I was the one who edited her page when she first did that feat, actually, to include it. I didn't change it at the time because I wasn't sure whether the upgrade was needed or not + I thought she may have a role in the next chapter (she didn't).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That's what i meant, Alakabamm. If 5-A Setsuno is not accepted, then why noy Tiers like 5-C to 5-B then?

 

[Goodyfresh]

So we're thinking 5-B could be good? That seems right to me given the size of Human World. With it being noted that she has a major stamina/health/age-based weakness, it would seem, when powering up to Tier 5-B.

What do we think her up-to-date tier should be when not powered-up? I think we should base it on Joa's tier, considering that her tier was initially based upon scaling from Joa. I just checked the page histories, and Joa was rated as 5-B at the time that Setsuno was scaled to him/her as "at least 6-A." So since Joa went up by one tier, it stands to reason Setsuno, in her base-state like when she "fought" Joa, should too.

So it would seem Setsuno's base and powered-up states are tiers 5-C and 5-B, respectively.

One thing that's certain is that she's one scary granny, seriously.

 

[Alakabamm]

Joie is sort of in a flux state right now, I think its best not to scale from him.

But you can scale from Brunch, she should be superior to him as a chef and thus in Toriko terms likely as a combatant as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that Setsuno was really strained from just protecting the human world (which is likely a 5-B feat), I think that we cannot reliably scale from Joa at this point, or that Joa was not serious during the confrontation. "At least 5-B" might be acceptable though.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I would agree with 5-B Setsuno. Either say, her page is really outdated as heck.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can upgrade it if you wish.