Massive Archie Sonic Downgrade

[TheMightyRegulator]

When Sonic and Megaman were referring to the energy used to reset the multiverse, they were referring to the chaos energy, not the genesis wave. Also, the argument that none of the conflicts in this particular comic wouldn't be feasible is faulty as this is the only time those forms appeared in this particular media.

Someone capable of rewriting reality and later not being able to do so because reality is in a poorer state doesn't mean it's not scalable to AP, but that it can't be used effectively in a battle. However Sonic has fought Sigma who became a multiversal entity.

I disagree with the cosmic interstate tidbit as it was never stated they travelled the distance Sonic travelled.

I agree with Azathoth on the placement of Mogul's tiering.

I actually don't think the zone breaking, the black hole feat and the ultimate annihilator are legitimate.

 

[Ultraguy_9000]

Ok I'm starting to actually get into this a little.

Anyway the genisis wave was powered/created by Chaos energy. It was techncially a chaos energy based ability so to speak, which probably played into why choas control could reverse it. That ohter part of the argument is poor, but I was mostly just voicing doubt in the fact of whether Sonic could actually warp reality like that on his own rather than just fixing or reversing unatural changes, due to the logical conotations on the story.

Let me go a bit deeper into the cosmic interstate thing. A lot of the maps and sighns for it have never actually made logical sense.

STH 19. Look at the pannel on the middle left. you can see the interstate map is just a figure 8 with multiple gag arrows pointing in diffrent directions.

http://i.imgur.com/8LfWZPO.jpg


STH 11. You see things like abby lane, penny lane, ect

http://i.imgur.com/7qXpmqG.jpg


STH 11. Various sighns claiming to be short cuts.

http://i.imgur.com/3VaSHxP.jpg


STH 11. More gag signs in the top right pannel

http://i.imgur.com/I0gt3w7.jpg


My core problem with the feat was actually wether or not signs in this area should really be taken SUPER seriously as clear cut measurments, when the area had shown multiple times in the past to have directions or lables that are sillys or outright incomprehensible.

This also played into another big topic in that blog. The actual tone of the comic when it started. Archie used to be much more gag filled and silly and had a degree of toon force early on. The use of the cosmic interstate in that instance happened fairly early, before the comic even hit the 2 year mark. It's very inconsistant with how Sonic was portrayed abilities wise even at STH 50 if taken at face value. It's not like archie didn't do clearly inconsistant things back then as well, as Sonic was shown to swim in some early issues even though it's common knowledge he can't

Also while technically nitpicky, we never saw how Far Sonic ran in that instance with the cosmic interstate either. Just because he ran along a road that ended in a sighn saying the next exit was so far away, doesn't mean mean the road he was on was actually that long. I could get on a highway from an entrance and drive 10 miles only to get to a sighn that says the next exit is 40 miles away as an analogy.

The fact sonic's destination actually WAS at that sighn is also a problem in my opinion. As it means he didn't actually have to run to the next exit anyway.

STH 19

http://i.imgur.com/XREpJ1n.jpg

Many of those other characters like blaze or the freedom fighhters also where traveling to complety seperate alternate reaility zones like Sonic's or Anti-Sonics. Saying they may not have had to travel that far to get to said realities only makes Sonic look less impressive when he did so.

Mogul was not equal to Chaos knuckles in power. He was stronger.

In 149 Zonic clearly states Mogul absorbed all the power from chaos knuckles. However the imbalance in the chaos force caused by knuckles not saying in the afterlife when he died , allowed mogul to take control of the entire chaos force for himself. To qoute

"Mogul, who was also one with the chaos force, used this to his advantage. It's unbalance gave Mogul the oppertunity to take it's power completely"

Mogul got another MAJOR power up outside of Chaos knuckles. The only person who fought him at this height of power was titan tails, who should really be the only one who scales to it.

http://i.imgur.com/yD0ycjz.jpg

and again Mogul has not had a consistant power level. He's gone through periods of being weaker or stronger over years.

The zone,black hole and ect feats are the ones I was most concerned with. They were also the easiet to deconstruct though.

I actually did start gathering info on Sigma in case I needed it. But didn't place it in the blog because I wanted to keep it all pre-genis. I might add info about that later.

Anyway this feat right here is taken out of context.

http://imgur.com/OH3kG5R

Sigma was talking about the level of power he wanted to achieve. That middle pannel is an internal momulouge of his ambitions.

You'de have to give me a bit to gather the details,but in that arch Sonic/megamans planets got fused together and Sigma started drawing power from it with somehting called the master engine.

http://i.imgur.com/xApgXYZ.jpg

When he opened those Genisis portals he was sending objects called unity engines to diffrent worlds, which would bassically cause them to fuse to sonic/megas world so he could draw even more power.

However this would have taken much time to accomplish and the entire Cacom/Sega universes bassically ralied to stop these engines from even being activated by Sigmas forces.

http://i.imgur.com/Sy7r6la.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ugNDcej.jpg

Eggman and Wily also stopped the flow of energy from the master unit part way throught the fight.

http://i.imgur.com/NnKr7Wm.jpg

Sigma doesn't really have any feats putting him at such a level of power overall. That was mostly just a rant about the kind of power he wanted to reach eventually and even then his ascent was being stopped by virtually the entire Capcom and Sega universe. Not to mention his flow of power to his body was cut part way though his battle with sonic and Mega.

 

[Ultraguy_9000]

On another note it was over use of Genisis portals, which were bassically space/time anomolies caused by the destruction of the original Sonic univers, that caused Reailty to break down in the second crossoever. It seemed to be more of a domino effect rather than a one shot thing.

http://i.imgur.com/zl1n6Xr.jpg

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Azathoth makes some good points, but am not well-acquainted with the series in question.

Btw: What do the rest of you think about Ultraguy's points?

 

[Credible_Username]

Interesting. What about Sonic getting blasted by Mogul and surviving in issue #150? Or Sonic creating at least 5 different universes at the end of the World's Collide crossover? Just getting blasted by Mogul alone could be a universe+ level durability feat. And Mogul wasn't holding back either. He wanted Tails dead. So you can't argue Mogul weakened himself (universe+ down to like town level) for no reason.

Also, for some reason the blog also says that Sonic was beaten by half of the Deadly Six in Sonic Lost World. But Sonic has never lost a fight to the Deadly Six in that game. And even if he did, the end of the story shows the Deadly Six using the planet's energy to amp themselves and they even claim they're stronger than they ever were before. Sonic still defeats them one by one without any trouble as one of the last cutscenes of the game shows.

I have no idea why that was mentioned, as the cutscenes and story of Lost World clearly show Base Sonic > Amped Deadly Six > Deadly Six.

 

[Darkness552]

@Credible Username

im pretty sure he was talking about the comic book deadly six which shouldn't be taken in context with the games as the comics and games are different

 

[Darkness552]

the ultimate annihilator feat is not legitamate whether snively only targeted robotnik or not sonic has been hurt by far less (unless you count him taking a shot from Mammoth Mogul and Evil Super Sonic) also the UA also created universes i believe and did mess up the multiverse form what i know

also the quantim dial feat i brought up was the thought of sonic reversing the dial so it would implode on itself as it seemed to be moving in a rotational direction to create the black hole so sonic rammed into it to make it backwards, however maybe i did take it too much at face value but at the first and second glances it seemed legit

Chaos Knuckles was inside the actual chaos force and its arguable if he did merge then left or just never merged at all

and Mammoth Mogul did weaken the Ancient Walkers who are part of the Chaos Force so i think that is topic of debate

sonic's speed what i brought up a time ago with the running across the multiverse twice is not completely true because i missed the part where there was shortcuts but it still doesn't change the fact that it still takes lightyears to travel

and Super Sonic collasping the Multiverse on accident is legitament because if i remeber correctly Sonic was going to restore his Universe back to its regular state but then Eggman interrupted him during the process which would later reveal that the whole multiverse collasped on itself while a few survived, the SGW was a reality warping machine which did what it was suppose to do and reality warped the multiverse which caused sonic to do what he did

anway i just saw this thread and decided to give my input on it

 

[Credible_Username]

@Credible Username
im pretty sure he was talking about the comic book deadly six which shouldn't be taken in context with the games as the comics and games are different

Except the comic Deadly Six were given special armor that enhances their abilities. Something Zavok reiterates when he tries to use his amped abilities to control Sigma. It doesn't work. But still proves the Deadly Six's abilities were amped. So people shouldn't use Sonic's defeat by half the Deadly Six as legit. They were amped to the point where the other half of the Deadly Six also went on to trash Mega Man. The Zeti were obviously powered up. (They captured Sonic and Mega Ma when the Zeti's game counterparts were powered up and still got trashed by Base Sonic in Sonic Lost World) I'm not sure why they were brought up at all.

Also, the Deadly Six appearence was in the Worlds Unite crossover (which is in the Post Super Genesis Wave continuity) Why on Earth is a blog dedicated to the limits of Pre Super Genesis Wave Sonic using the limitations of Post Super Genesis Wave Sonic as evidence?

Oh, and the highway having shortcuts came from a different panel. Nowhere does it say or imply that the specific road Sonic traveled across had off-panel shortcuts that drastically cut the distance he had to have traveled. In fact, I could argue that the 148,000 lightyear path was the shortcut and that argument would carry just as much weight. But as you said, Sonic had to have traveled over a thousand lightyears in a reasonable amount of time. So highway feat is MFTL no matter how you cut it.

 

[Koopi]

Why has the downgrade already happened

You guys should change it back to normal Until we get things sorted in this thread.

We haven't even Gotten everything sorted here

 

[BruceTheBatman]

I wanna see Archie Sonic downgraded because he's broken AF, but I dunno if this is legit

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Why has the downgrade already happened
You guys should change it back to normal Until we get things sorted in this thread.

We haven't even Gotten everything sorted here

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think the downgrades have happened as of yet.

 

[Koopi]

Why has the downgrade already happened
You guys should change it back to normal Until we get things sorted in this thread.

We haven't even Gotten everything sorted here

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think the downgrades have happened as of yet.

I'm pretty sure base sonic wasn't 4C before this thread

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Sonic is 4-A tho..?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Base Archie Sonic has been 4-A for as long as I can remember, so that didn't change at all. Speed seems to be the same as well.

 

[Koopi]

Sonic is 4-A tho..?

Huh

I literally just saw Archie base sonic Post 4C doe...

Who are in charge of changing the pages?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, judging by the History of the page, its mostly been edited by Reppuzan and Prom, though Sonic has been 4-A since last year so I doubt it changed. Post Genesis Wave also hasn't changed at all.

 

[Koopi]

Well, judging by the History of the page, its mostly been edited by Reppuzan and Prom, though Sonic has been 4-A since last year so I doubt it changed. Post Genesis Wave also hasn't changed at all.

Ok I must just be seeing things

Seriously

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

Hello,I'm new here,but I can speak for the ultimate anihilator feat,yes snively programmed it to effect robotnik,but sonic was right there with him.The billionth ring aura is what saved sonic from certain doom,& always has given him incredible durability.The quantum dial feat stil doesn't explain how sonic survived being thrown 859,000 lightyears into space with little damage. & lastly anything & everything chaos force related is hard to gage,I think you should leave the ratings as they are otherwise there won't even be a reason to have separate canon profiles from segasonic.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

-Snively was unaware of the omega wave & sonic was saved by his billionth ring aura when the ultimate anihilator went off -Rotor said once the quantum dial started IT CANNOT BE STOPPED,thus it was MSS in force & scale -1 CHAOS EMERALD is LOW 2C in scale for creating zones & completly rewriting timelines,so 7 is a BARE MINIMUM of 7 universes & 12 is 12 universes thus STILL MAKING ALL SUPER FORMS MULTI-UNIVERSAL -Sonic didn't "highjack" anything in issue #229 when he restored the old timeline thus making the SGW feat legit -Sigma infected every facet of creation with unity engines,meaning that the efforts of capcom & sega was in vain since he was still getting power from all the other infinite universes -Sonic has tanked attacks from super sonic,enerjak,& an (amped) master mogul in his base form -the cosmic interstate feat CANNOT be disproven

 

[Darkmon_cns]

[snip]

he still said it would only hurt robtnic so why would it have hurt sonic?

 

[Antvasima]

So, were Azathoth's suggested changes ever corrected in the Archie Sonic profiles?

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

he still said it would only hurt robtnic so why would it have hurt sonic?
d

Because there is still the wildcard that is the omega wave that snively & everybody else where completly unaware of.The billionth ring aura saved him at ground zero & shielded him from the blast.

 

[Ddcbryant]

Yeah this is mostly downplay, assumptions & nitpicking like everyone says. -_-I

 

[Cropfist]

I agree that this seems like massive downplay.