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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

Success0906 said:
Is there gonna be a rehaul of the new tiering system soon? I am having some issues honestly. A lot of verses' supporters have seem to have found a loophole to get their characters up their in the good rankings while they don't have such feats shown in their works.
Click to expand...
There is a possibility of Maou getting to 1-A but we gotta wait for Official translation to get there
 
Tatsumi504 said:
No evidence suggests the source of a God is more abstract
Click to expand...
1. Source is the fundamental concept that maintains the existence of all creatures in MGK (including gods), so Source is always "more abstract" than the creature whose existence Source maintains, including gods because gods also have Source
2. As you say, isn't Source more abstract than Ivis?
Of course Source of Ivis aka Concept of Ivis will be "more abstract" than Ivis, and Source of God aka Concept of God will have to be "more abstract" than God.
 
NousGalia said:
Wait until 2026 to finish translating volume 11, then MGK will be 1A because on average it takes 3 months to translate 1 volume.
Click to expand...
after 2 years the tiering system will be different again xD, btw what's the 1-A feat ?, if i remember correctly deeper layers bubbles are not qualitative superiority since it depends on the amount of fire dew or something like that
 
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since venuzdonoa is based on the chaotic eyes of destruction shouldn't we add "immeasurable combat and reaction speed with chaotic eyes of destruction" to anos profile
since the chaotic eyes can do anything that venuzdonoa does
 
Yohata said:
after 2 years the tiering system will be different again xD, btw what's the 1-A feat ?, if i remember correctly deeper layers bubbles are not qualitative superiority since it depends on the amount of fire dew or something like that
Click to expand...
Silver Bubble's consideration of Bubble World as an unborn aka non-existent world is enough to be qualitatively superior.
 
Yohata said:
since venuzdonoa is based on the chaotic eyes of destruction shouldn't we add "immeasurable combat and reaction speed with chaotic eyes of destruction" to anos profile
since the chaotic eyes can do anything that venuzdonoa does
Click to expand...
also took the opening of the demon eye before Anos grabbed Venuzdonoa during the battle with Avos
 
NousGalia said:
Silver Bubble's consideration of Bubble World as an unborn aka non-existent world is enough to be qualitatively superior.
Click to expand...
wank
it's more of insubstantiality rather than nonexistent , which every shallower world is compared to deeper
& as for why they can't perceive those world is cause bubble world aren't lit by silver light to be perceivable , idk if there was establishment of silver light with reality of the world , cause I don't remember deeper world being brighter than shallower world .

maybe you can use this logic for abyss layer as they are just soo deep that even the silver light of 99 layer world isn't perceivable , basically the gap between 99-abyss > 1-99
& they also work on different framework ,chaos compared to 0-99
 
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
wank
it's more of insubstantiality rather than nonexistent , which every shallower world is compared to deeper
& as for why they can't perceive those world is cause bubble world aren't lit by silver light to be perceivable , idk if there was establishment of silver light with reality of the world , cause I don't remember deeper world being brighter than shallower world .

maybe you can use this logic for abyss layer as they are just soo deep that even the silver light of 99 layer world isn't perceivable , basically the gap between 99-abyss > 1-99
& they also work on different framework ,chaos compared to 0-99
Click to expand...
1 Unborn world is a world that does not exist, even if there are infinite Bubble Worlds, Silver Bubble will only consider those infinite worlds as non-existent.
They can't even prove the existence of a bubble world.
 
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
wank
it's more of insubstantiality rather than nonexistent , which every shallower world is compared to deeper
& as for why they can't perceive those world is cause bubble world aren't lit by silver light to be perceivable , idk if there was establishment of silver light with reality of the world , cause I don't remember deeper world being brighter than shallower world .

maybe you can use this logic for abyss layer as they are just soo deep that even the silver light of 99 layer world isn't perceivable , basically the gap between 99-abyss > 1-99
& they also work on different framework ,chaos compared to 0-99
Click to expand...
Reality A considers reality B as a dream, a fantasy, an illusion, non-existence or a shadow of Plato's concept... and other forms that imply "unreality" => Reality A has a "qualitatively superior" nature.
 
NousGalia said:
1 Unborn world is a world that does not exist, even if there are infinite Bubble Worlds, Silver Bubble will only consider those infinite worlds as non-existent.
They can't even prove the existence of a bubble world.
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there's no unreality & reality difference , it's just discerning a individual bubble world is not possible from outside cause silver light
"…Yes. The small world is illuminated by a light of order called 'silver light,' which can only be seen from the outside. This light is accompanied by invisible winds and waves of order, allowing one to traverse worlds by riding this flow. However—"

since it contains waves of order you can discern a world by magical power emitted by silver light , bubble world don't have any

luna literally choose bubble world to be reincarnated to
balzarondo followed rainbow road to the bubble world for finding ordov

yes there's difference in reality but not enough to make unreal & real , shallow reality is insubstantial compared to deeper one​
 
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
since it contains waves of order you can discern a world by magical power emitted by silver light , bubble world don't have any
Click to expand...
The Bubble World that Luna chose when she was reincarnated had a silver light:
"The other day, I found a really beautiful silver bubble. If I go to the bubble world, I want to go there."
"Where is it?"
Luna drew a magic circle and produced a sea chart.
The silver bubble she found is shining.
<Chap 724>
When Anos went outside Militia World, Anos saw Militia World as a bubble with silver light:
The ship moves straight toward that silvery light.
Gradually, little by little, the black sky turns into silver.
As the ship continued to accelerate, I saw countless bubbles form around me.
"This is...?"
Lay took a breath out of the spectacular sight.
Even Shin couldn't hide his astonishment, as his gaze was stern.
We were in a sea that flowed out silvery light.
Looking back, I could see an endlessly huge, round bubble of silver light.
Looking with my Magic Eyes, I can certainly see the magical power of the creator god Militia.
This silver bubble was the world we were in.
In other words, we've gotten outside of it.
<Chap 492>

But even if Militia World has silver light, it is still Bubble World and cannot prove the existence of Bubble World:
"The bubble world is a small world that has not yet evolved. In this Ginsui Sacred Sea, it can be said that it is a world that has not been born. This is because the bubble world does not have a main god and a head of state. Without the main god, the order of the small world cannot be maintained. It cannot be completely controlled, and without a leader, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight.It is easy to imagine what will happen.''
<Chap 502>
Because it was a bubble world, it would have been impossible to prove the existence of the Militia world.
<Chap 505>
 
vol 16 synopsis. release is on November 8

銀水聖海を呑みこむ大災厄《絶渦》。鎮める術を求てめさらなる深層へ――。
かつて二律僭主だった頃の記憶を取り戻したアノスに、大魔王ジニアは告げる。
「この銀海の全ては《絶渦》に飲み込まれ、消え去るだろう」
現在、大魔王の深淵魔法で一時的に鎮静化している大災厄。しかしその代償として大魔王の寿命は尽きかけていた。
刻一刻とタイムリミットが近づく中、パブロヘタラは《絶渦》の調査に乗り出すことに。しかし新たに加盟した学院は曲者揃いで、味方の足並みにも不協和音が鳴り響く。複数の魔王との敵対、絡繰神の襲来、混沌とした深層世界でアノスが相対するのは、果たしてー―?
第十六章《深層十二界》編、開幕!!

The Absolute Vortex, the great disaster that engulfed the Silver Water Sacred Sea. Seeking a way to quell it, Anos goes to the depths of the vortex.
The Great Demon King zinnia tells Anos, who has regained his memory of when he was once the Two Laws Usurper.
Everything in this silver sea will be swallowed up by the “Absolute Vortex” and disappear.
Currently, the Great Demon King's abyssal magic has temporarily calmed the great calamity. However, the price to pay for this is that the Great Demon King's life is running out.
With the time limit approaching every minute, Pablo Hetala decides to investigate the “Absolute Vortex. However, the newly joined academy is full of curmudgeons, and there is a cacophony of discord among the allies. With multiple demon kings in rivalry, and the attack of the “Mechanical God,” what will Anos face in the chaotic world of the Deep World?
Chapter 16, “The Twelve Realms of the Deep,” is about to begin!
 
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
vol 16 synopsis. release is on November 8

銀水聖海を呑みこむ大災厄《絶渦》。鎮める術を求てめさらなる深層へ――。
かつて二律僭主だった頃の記憶を取り戻したアノスに、大魔王ジニアは告げる。
「この銀海の全ては《絶渦》に飲み込まれ、消え去るだろう」
現在、大魔王の深淵魔法で一時的に鎮静化している大災厄。しかしその代償として大魔王の寿命は尽きかけていた。
刻一刻とタイムリミットが近づく中、パブロヘタラは《絶渦》の調査に乗り出すことに。しかし新たに加盟した学院は曲者揃いで、味方の足並みにも不協和音が鳴り響く。複数の魔王との敵対、絡繰神の襲来、混沌とした深層世界でアノスが相対するのは、果たしてー―?
第十六章《深層十二界》編、開幕!!

The Absolute Vortex, the great disaster that engulfed the Silver Water Sacred Sea. Seeking a way to quell it, Anos goes to the depths of the vortex.
The Great Demon King zinnia tells Anos, who has regained his memory of when he was once the Two Laws Usurper.
Everything in this silver sea will be swallowed up by the “Absolute Vortex” and disappear.
Currently, the Great Demon King's abyssal magic has temporarily calmed the great calamity. However, the price to pay for this is that the Great Demon King's life is running out.
With the time limit approaching every minute, Pablo Hetala decides to investigate the “Absolute Vortex. However, the newly joined academy is full of curmudgeons, and there is a cacophony of discord among the allies. With multiple demon kings in rivalry, and the attack of the “Mechanical God,” what will Anos face in the chaotic world of the Deep World?
Chapter 16, “The Twelve Realms of the Deep,” is about to begin!
Click to expand...
I think this volume will be a stage for Amuru.
 
There hasn't been any new upgrade for Anos lately so I want everyone to check out "Source = CM1"
1. Source is Fundamental Concept of all object in the verse
Source
The fundamental concept of existence that all living things hold within them. An excellent magician can be reincarnated with the memories of their life kept in their source, and even if the physical body perishes, as long as the source is intact, they can be revived.
2. We already know that God is CM1 and God is state as "Source of nature law" while God of Destruction is called "the source of all death and destruction". From here we have God = CM1 = Source (not Source of God because every God, however abstract, needs a Source to maintain its existence throughout every moment in the timeline. The Source is the most fundamental aspect of every entity )
“Once upon a time, the Demon King of Tyranny brought down this world’s order of destruction. Abernyu, the Goddess of Destruction, had her name overwritten as the Demon Castle Delsgade, and the powers of the god were condensed into Venuzdonoa, the Abolisher or Reason. So why didn’t the peace- seeking Demon King destroy Abernyu, the source of all death and destruction? The answer is evident: because it was impossible for even the Demon King of Tyranny to destroy the order of destruction itself.”
3. As for "Source of God" we have:
  • God is Abstraction Concept
  • Source is the Fundamental and Abstract Concept of all beings, including god.
=> Source of God is Abstraction Concept 1 Layer (increase layer because source is an abstract concept but more "abstract" than god - an abstract concept)
 
gods source is abstraction of themself which embodies the order (arcana gained their order after consuming those gods source)

944683e657a27b52b0e01cd6ef7ec554.png

normal sources were never accepted as CM1 , gods authority over their order is CM1 , while their sources would be also concept type 1 for embodying the orderI don't see any layer
 
“The beings who preserve that order—the beings who embody that order— are the highest order of natural law: the gods.
Click to expand...
I don't really take it as 100% truth .all the gods were gaslighted into believing that they were order itself but in reality "seed of world will" was integrated seamlessly into their source making them believe the order was their own will , but gods are separate things from order and their source merely embodies the order .

The gods embody that order. So you mean God = Source of God?
Click to expand...
yes, like when you look at that statement above with the fact that "seed of world will" makes them believe that the order is their own will , which is embedded into their source , it makes more sense that they are referring to their own source when they say "they embody it"
like abernyu body was turned into delsgade while her order was into venuzdonoa


god are order(which is abstract) and their source being abstract of themself making it more abstract
god source are their abstraction which embodies order

I am more inclined to believe that order is more fundamental than gods , no matter how much they try to control it , they are bound to it & can't deviate from it , this would make chief gods more fundamental than any gods in the world which is just more accurate than just being superior
this is what anos said to abernyu
You have become able to control order. But perhaps because you are a divine race, you cannot touch the fundamental order of the world, which is the existence of destruction. Whether you wish it or not, there will always be destruction in the world, and your divine eyes will reflect despair.
 
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ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
You have become able to control order. But perhaps because you are a divine race, you cannot touch the fundamental order of the world, which is the existence of destruction. Whether you wish it or not, there will always be destruction in the world, and your divine eyes will reflect despair.
Click to expand...
What chapter
 
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
I don't really take it as 100% truth .all the gods were gaslighted into believing that they were order itself but in reality "seed of world will" was integrated seamlessly into their source making them believe the order was their own will , but gods are separate things from order and their source merely embodies the order .
Click to expand...
This isn't exactly true, Gods without a doubt are order, the embodiment of it. What they're gaslighted into believing is that they have no emotions because they are order.
The seeds of world will basically has killed off the emotions of most gods but those with strong hearts still have emotions and just require something to awaken them.
A god governs/maintains order while their source is the concept of their existence
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
yes, like when you look at that statement above with the fact that "seed of world will" makes them believe that the order is their own will , which is embedded into their source , it makes more sense that they are referring to their own source when they say "they embody it"
like abernyu body was turned into delsgade while her order was into venuzdonoa
Click to expand...
It doesn't make them believe it per say. If one were to be in a god's shoes, they'd obviously mistake the seeds of world will to be their own.
When they say they embody order, they're referring to its abstract manifestation
ROZAN-TIMSINA0 said:
god are order(which is abstract) and their source being abstract of themself making it more abstract
god source are their abstraction which embodies order

I am more inclined to believe that order is more fundamental than gods , no matter how much they try to control it , they are bound to it & can't deviate from it , this would make chief gods more fundamental than any gods in the world which is just more accurate than just being superior
this is what anos said to abernyu
You have become able to control order. But perhaps because you are a divine race, you cannot touch the fundamental order of the world, which is the existence of destruction. Whether you wish it or not, there will always be destruction in the world, and your divine eyes will reflect despair.
Click to expand...
A gods source isn't more abstract than order. A source is just that (a source) just in a gods case, it governs the manifestation of order. Since gods maintain order and their source is the concept of their existence, said source consequently maintains order. So their source isn't more abstract. A god is basically just a small piece of order hence destroying them doesn't destroy order itself.

Technically sources are more abstract than order but only in their primordial state (firedew) since only the Gods that govern the fundamental principles of life can touch it not to mention manipulate it.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
This isn't exactly true, Gods without a doubt are order, the embodiment of it. What they're gaslighted into believing is that they have no emotions because they are order.
The seeds of world will basically has killed off the emotions of most gods but those with strong hearts still have emotions and just require something to awaken them.
A god governs/maintains order while their source is the concept of their existence

It doesn't make them believe it per say. If one were to be in a god's shoes, they'd obviously mistake the seeds of world will to be their own.
When they say they embody order, they're referring to its abstract manifestation

A gods source isn't more abstract than order. A source is just that (a source) just in a gods case, it governs the manifestation of order. Since gods maintain order and their source is the concept of their existence, said source consequently maintains order. So their source isn't more abstract. A god is basically just a small piece of order hence destroying them doesn't destroy order itself.

Technically sources are more abstract than order but only in their primordial state (firedew) since only the Gods that govern the fundamental principles of life can touch it not to mention manipulate it.
Click to expand...
Why is the source of god not more abstract than god while the source of god governs god and is the "fundamental cocnept" of god.
Every object in MGK has a source, including god, and sources are always more abstract than the objects they govern. It can be said that the source of Ivis is more abstract than Ivis and similarly we have the source of god is more abstract than god
 
NousGalia said:
Why is the source of god not more abstract than god while the source of god governs god and is the "fundamental cocnept" of god.
Click to expand...
Doesn't make it more abstract. A source is just a source, the fundamental concept of something's existence. Gods are just a manifestation of their order but they're not the full thing hence the source of a God isn't the fundamental concept of that order but just that of a god.
NousGalia said:
Every object in MGK has a source, including god, and sources are always more abstract than the objects they govern. It can be said that the source of Ivis is more abstract than Ivis and similarly we have the source of god is more abstract than god
Click to expand...
Can't really speak for every object, just things that produce magic power, count as life. Sources aren't more abstract either, Ivis for example isn't abstract in a way thus his source isn't more abstract for being an abstraction. Being the concept of a concept doesn't coun as a deeper abstraction either take Nosgalia and his order for example, neither is more abstract than what they govern
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Sources aren't more abstract either
Click to expand...
-Fundamental Concept govern Object is not more abstract than Object?
-Source is harder to interact with than Object, Source governs Object then why Source is not more abstract than Object?
With my right hand, I drew a magic circle in the air. It was the circle for Vebdoz. As I reached my hand inside the circle, my fingers became stained a deep black.
“Directly affecting one’s source is difficult, but Vebdoz and other such spells make it possible.”
Click to expand...
 
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