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Mandatory Thread for Profile Recreation After Deletion?

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TWILIGHT-OP

TWILIGHT-OP

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After talking with Antvasima, I am posting this thread.

The issue caught my attention when I came across this.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1274594008303276123/1354716626611867832/Screenshot_2025-03-22-13-39-27-04_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=67e64dad&is=67e4fc2d&hm=cf389233eab2b69d4843978f0a7896c401e6b0e971155b66f0e153c8699fed02&
A statement by Dereck while patrolling the wiki. He states that any profile which gets deleted for certain reasons unless for tier 1 does not require a CRT to be recreated.
(It's not about MGK verse in particular but as whole, it's just that, this case caught my attention)

For instance MGK was deleted here for using MTL long ago but was brought back without any CRT. It's important to note that during this time, MGK was facing numerous downgrades, primarily from Fujiwara and Pein.
Now, here’s where things get interesting, MGK was deleted from here long ago, yet somehow, it made a comeback without any CRT proving that the issues leading to its removal were actually resolved. If that’s the case, does deletion even mean anything anymore, or is it just a temporary inconvenience for some?

There have been instances where profiles were deleted due to various issues such as:
  • Use of machine translations leading to inaccurate information.
  • Fake or misleading scans being used as sources.
  • Outdated profiles or profiles without scans.
To prevent misuse like Intentional deletion to easily modify stats and abilities in a recreated version, and to ensure quality control .

Since there are no clear written rules on this matter, I propose implementing a rule that requires staff to review a recreation thread before allowing the recreation of a deleted profile.

Why this rule is necessary?
  1. Prevents abuse of profile deletion for easy revisions.
  2. Maintains quality of information by enforcing proper verification steps.

@DontTalkDT's Draft
If a character profile was deleted, then the recreated profile is required to fix the original problem that led to deletion. If the difference between the deleted version and the new version of the profile is large enough that applying those changes to the original profile would have required a content revision thread, then a content revision thread is required to be made prior to recreating the profile. Profiles that were deleted shortly after creation, due to bad quality or being outright vandalism, are exempt from that.
Click to expand...

Agree: @DontTalkDT ( with 2 Exception here)
Disagree:
 
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The rule about this sounds good and all, but you deleted the profile saying it is from a previously deleted character and in theory yes, but the previously deleted MG was from the Web Novel and all current profiles are based on the Light Novel. You can't delete it on the premise that it was the same thing that was already deleted because it's not.
 
Dereck03 said:
The rule about this sounds good and all, but you deleted the profile saying it is from a previously deleted character and in theory yes, but the previously deleted MG was from the Web Novel and all current profiles are based on the Light Novel. You can't delete it on the premise that it was the same thing that was already deleted because it's not.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned, that was just an example, I am not specifically proposing the deletion of the MGK verse. If you look closely, I clarified that it applies to every verse not just one particular verse.

And yes I am well aware of the fact that it's now from Ln.
 
I know what you said, I'm just making a better clarification of the "why", since it seems I didn't clarified myself better when I restored that profile, which is I believe, the reason of this thread's creation.
 
Well I had this thought for sometime and that post of yours gave me a reason here to post this thread.
 
Yes, I think there should be a mandatory CRT to bring back deleted profiles.
With two exceptions:
  • Profiles that were deleted shortly after their original creation due to either being vandalism or being in a very bad state from the get-go. Those should just be considered to have effectively never existed.
  • Profiles that were deleted due to lack of references and are brought back in an identical state, except with references this time, as the overall change wouldn't have required a CRT either.
 
Got permission from @Reiner04 to comment here.

Wanna make a point real quick.

First
Dereck03 said:
The rule about this sounds good and all, but you deleted the profile saying it is from a previously deleted character and in theory yes, but the previously deleted MG was from the Web Novel and all current profiles are based on the Light Novel. You can't delete it on the premise that it was the same thing that was already deleted because it's not.
Click to expand...
Sure, it's "based" on the Light novel, but the fact that it still uses Web novel information, just check the latest Maou Gakuin thread, I am not saying these are mistranslated or untrustworthy, so let's not go there. What I am saying is that it's still in use even for the so-called "Light novel profiles". So saying "it's not an issue due to being a Light novel version" is just incorrect.


Also, I would recommend pinging @PrinceofPein Since his direct involvement in the issue.
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Got permission from @Reiner04 to comment here.

Wanna make a point real quick.

First

Sure, it's "based" on the Light novel, but the fact that it still uses Web novel information, just check the latest Maou Gakuin thread, I am not saying these are mistranslated or untrustworthy, so let's not go there. What I am saying is that it's still in use even for the so-called "Light novel profiles". So saying "it's not an issue due to being a Light novel version" is just incorrect.


Also, I would recommend pinging @PrinceofPein Since his direct involvement in the issue.
Click to expand...
It was formerly using only LN contents, till I made this thread;
vsbattles.com

MGK: LN, WN and all officially secondary merchandise sources as well as Raws validation.

MGK has been accepted to be exception to our rules and only being allowed to use official translations or LNs exclusive content. As per the recent thread has been accepted. https://vsbattles.com/threads/new-policy-regarding-web-novels-and-light-novels-verses.154830/ This thread proposal is to...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Highlighting how this won’t recreate the issue that led to MGK’s deletion while also ensuring more opportunities and fairness. After all, restricting the use of secondary sources only for Maou specifically... kinda sucks. So yeah, everything in MGK profile currently accepted by staff.
 
On one hand, I can understand why restoring a profile at the snap of a finger can be an issue.

On the other hand, I have personally dealt with profile deletions purely due to "it needs work." Why hold up the work needed?
 
Well, as I think that I stated when talking with Twilight about this issue earlier, I think that our rules for this should depend on the situation. For example, if pages were simply deleted due to poor page quality, such as missing references or guesswork statistics or ones based on unaccepted calculation blogs, new versions of those wiki pages that have fixed the above-mentioned problems should likely be fine to create. 🙏
 
I would agree that it's reasonable depending on the context which means a thread mired in discussion is upon us to have a rule requiring a CRT to return a deleted profile- I think it's so reasonable that I earnestly thought we already had such a rule. We need a more specific proposition in the OP, then.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I would agree that it's reasonable depending on the context which means a thread mired in discussion is upon us to have a rule requiring a CRT to return a deleted profile- I think it's so reasonable that I earnestly thought we already had such a rule. We need a more specific proposition in the OP, then.
Click to expand...
How about this?
If a character profile was deleted because of machine translation errors, fake/misleading scans, or outdated/incomplete information, a Content Revision Thread is required before it can be recreated. However, if a profile was deleted simply due to lack of scans/references or being too low-quality, a CRT isn’t needed.
Click to expand...
 
It might need expanded a bit (I say "might" because I'm not sure, but there's feasibly other reasons for deletion to cover- I just can't think of any right now), but it's a good enough start, sure. Let's see what others think.
 
TWILIGHT-OP said:
How about this?
Click to expand...
A case not considered in that draft would be if changes are made to the profile during recreation, which do not serve to fix the initial issue. (i.e. a profile deleted due to lack of scans, shouldn't be recreated with different stats without a CRT)

I would maybe put it like this, to catch all possible niche cases:
If a character profile was deleted, then the recreated profile is required to fix the original problem that led to deletion. If the difference between the deleted version and the new version of the profile is large enough that applying those changes to the original profile would have required a content revision thread, then a content revision thread is required to be made prior to recreating the profile. Profiles that were deleted shortly after creation, due to bad quality or being outright vandalism, are exempt from that.
Click to expand...
Although I admittedly don't know if this is practical. Can regular users see deletion reasons and old versions somehow?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ah, that makes it more complicated as users can't really check if their profiles differ significantly from old versions and hence can't independently judge whether they made any CRT-worthy changes, even if they just planned to recreate the profile with new references or similar minor changes.
If we hold on to wanting to avoid stat revisions being indirectly passed without CRT via deletion and recreation, then I suppose we might have to generally require CRTs to be made, just so a staff member can check for the user if any stats were changed during the process.
(With profiles that were deleted shortly after creation being the exception again)
 
Yeah, Since regular users can't access deleted revisions, it's best to create a new CRT to be on the safe side with that exception that you mentioned.
 
I’ve included DontTalkDT's point in the draft. If there’s anything else that should be added, or if anyone has a better version of the draft, feel free to share it.
If a character profile was deleted due to machine translation errors, misleading or fake scans, or outdated/incomplete information, a Content Revision Thread (CRT) is required before recreating it. However, if the profile was removed solely because of a lack of scans/references or overall low quality, a CRT isn't necessary for recreation. That said, if a user wants to add new abilities to such profiles, a CRT is still required.
Click to expand...
 
I think that the draft text seems fine, but I am not the best person to ask. 🙏
 
I agree with DT's additions to the draft, for the record.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏❤️
 
I am still quite busy irl, got some free time to come here.
That's settled then, I'll be applying the changes (Dt's proposal), thanks everyone.
 
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