Maki Zenin VS. Quanxi (5-2-0)

[That_moron2]

Does quanxi have any wincons?

Shooting Maki with arrows until she dies. Its unlikely, but possible.

 

[Hiiilt]

Cut maki's head off. Pierce her body with numerous arrows.

But how is she gonna do that against someone with analytical prediction who can one shot her with ssk

 

[Hiiilt]

Shooting Maki with arrows until she dies. Its unlikely, but feasible.

She doesn't start the fight transformed so she can't do that before maki hits her once with ssk

 

[That_moron2]

She doesn't start the fight transformed so she can't do that before maki hits her once with ssk

Quanxi has type 2 immortality, unless Maki cuts her head off then she's fine.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Quanxi has type 2 immortality, unless Maki cuts her head off then she's fine.

Tbf, wouldn't that be what she opens up with against someone she's aiming to kill?

 

[Hiiilt]

Quanxi has type 2 immortality, unless Maki cuts her head off then she's fine.

Quanxi needs to pull a arrow from under her eyepatch to transform there's no way maki is gonna give her time to do that

 

[That_moron2]

Quanxi needs to pull a arrow from under her eyepatch to transform there's no way maki is gonna give her time to do that

Maybe up the starting distance or have her start transformed then @GunshyFever

 

[LaserPrecision]

Maybe up the starting distance or have her start transformed then @GunshyFever

I think the distance is fine. But I agree having her start out transformed also makes sense. I don't think it changes the verdict, but it does at least things more tricky.

 

[GunshyFever]

Maybe up the starting distance or have her start transformed then @GunshyFever

Sure

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Maki FRA.

 

[GunshyFever]

Done, I'll respond to the new arguments when I get on my PC

 

[Arkenis]

Are you serious..?

She wasn't Grade 1 because the Zen'in clan was trying their best to keep her from rising up in the ranks. That's like a huge plot point... Other Grade 1's verbatim state she should be Grade 2. WIth Mai even stating she'd no-diff Grade 2 Curses. With Miwa even claiming Mai was stupid because she believed Maki to be weak

I'm talking about when Nanami agrees Maki is less useful here than another first grade. And cool you've proven she's better than a grade 2. Still weaker than Yuji and Todo and less skilled than them up to this point. Never brought up why she wasn't rated as first grade officially, just talk about feats instead.

Her dad won through tricking her and using his Cursed Technique which she wasn't aware of. I'm sorry that her father is skilled enough to defeat her with tricks up his sleeve? Not an anti-feat tho. Being skilled =/= you can beat anyone, or that losing becomes impossible.

And it very much IS a feat for Sukuna. I don't know what kind of super cracked analytical prediction that lets Maki evade any attack regardless of AoE and skill you expect her to have, but all she has is a decent/solid analytical prediction sense that can be bypassed through large AoE or skill (The fact he was 2v1'ing her and Yuji who is also skilled should doubly show how skilled he is).

And what do you mean what other skill feats does she have? I literally had an ENTIRE post dedicated to that. Did you just not read it or what? It has links and everything

A very simple trick I couldn't possibly see Kusakabe, Nanami, Mei Mei, Todo, Yuji, or even Kamo losing to. And it is an anti-feat, she thought she won and didn't think he had more to fight with, that's a literal example of a lack of experience in combat lmao.

No you're just overhyping the feat here, Sukuna just fought her and her senses were absent for it, are you gonna sit here and argue Sukuna's got skills capable of bypassing this? Go reread the fight and tell me what "skill" Sukuna showed to let him bypass Maki's senses. If you haven't gotten my point yet, Maki's senses aren't useful in close combat against someone comparable to her, that is all.

• Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Analytical Prediction (Able to see curses which are invisible to the naked eye. Her regular senses should be sharp to the point she can pick up on human odors and footprints like Toji. Her eyes also can see the differences in temperature and density of air, she is also able to predict how one will move based off this.[9] Became able to "feel everything" about herself and their oppenent[10])
• Information Analysis (After her enlightenment, categorical distinctions between stimuli types stopped existing, and extended her sensory range vastly beyond her bodies' natural range to sense through her environment, effectively "seeing the souls of inanimate objects")

I deadass feel like you're trolling me with this. Either that or have some hidden bias. Because you just completely skimmed over stuff in my post and ignored plot-points to come to a conclusion that Maki is a basic brawler or something.

It can't just be I disagree and see the character differently? I'd say there's more of a bias with you to think Maki's got better skill here.

Maki used the Kukuru unit themselves as surfaces to take out others and move between killing them. She also ran down the side of the sand hand in my scan from my earlier post and fought and killed two people while on it. Her being able to jump on air as you said only aids her acrobatics.

Quanxi would do the same, and wouldn't even need to because of how much faster she is. Similar situation, both presented with numerous opponents and Quanxi targets all of them and slices their heads off with no issue. Maki on the other hand couldn't do so, you're bias if you think Maki flipping on people's backs is more impressive. Also she did it one time, stop acting like she was a masterful acrobatic using their bodies to move around them lmao.

Where are you getting "godly senses" from. And if you think it's so godly, why are you saying it barely aids in close-combat against opponents relative to her. If it was "godly", I don't think that'd be much of an issue.

You aren't paying attention. From afar it is godly, up close it is not, I think I've brought this up three times already.

Well obviously. He was split into 20 fingers for a long time. That's mentioned at the very beginning of the series.

So then why did you use Sukuna as an example of experience? He didn't experience the entire 1000 years, he was a cursed object for all of it.

And now I really feel like you're trolling... Kishibe being the "strongest" is vague. Stop using statements of strength as meaning anything unless you're also going to mention their skill to. So far I've introduced more skill feats in favor of Kishibe than you have. Nor does "being the first" indicate skill by default. Hell, I wouldn't even say it's a common trope to indicate skill. It happens, sure, but usually it's to indicate experience or to acknowledge they have knowledge of past information that is fundamental to a magic system or something of those sorts.

Its the first time I mentioned Kishibe in regards to skill here? No one said by default, I only said its a common trope in fiction to denote one's skill in the field. Experience and knowledge go in hand with skill also.

And if the "first sorcerer and curse" were the best... they would've been mentioned. Sukuna wouldn't be the strongest sorcerer in history if the first people were superior to him.

Or Gege doesn't care to talk about it? I know several mangas that do this trope yet give the title to the more recent member of the race/group as the strongest.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm talking about when Nanami agrees Maki is less useful here than another first grade. And cool you've proven she's better than a grade 2. Still weaker than Yuji and Todo and less skilled than them up to this point. Never brought up why she wasn't rated as first grade officially, just talk about feats instead.

It doesn't help that Nanami has a bias against children getting involved in fights. Let alone ones where their lives are at risk. Not to say he's wrong of course. Granted, I don't think Maki not having the mandatory strength to be Grade 1 matters. When you get to that level, strength and CT matter more than skill. Her being below Grade 1 doesn't by default make her less skilled than one.

A very simple trick I couldn't possibly see Kusakabe, Nanami, Mei Mei, Todo, Yuji, or even Kamo losing to. And it is an anti-feat, she thought she won and didn't think he had more to fight with, that's a literal example of a lack of experience in combat lmao.

"Very simple trick" that tricked the person used as a metric of skill in the verse. Yuji is the only one with a verbatim statement of having a better sense of battle than Maki. If Maki fell for it, all of those other people are falling for it too. How would she be aware of a technique she doesn't know he has? And her falling for that thinking she won isn't an anti-feat of skill (And quit conflating experience to skill. How many times do I have to mention in this thread that the two are different for you to comprehend that, lol). It just shows she is prone to underestimating her opponent, or quick to judge. It doesn't hinder her ability to actually skillfully fight in hand to hand or weapon combat. It's important to make a distinction between the two.

No you're just overhyping the feat here, Sukuna just fought her and her senses were absent for it, are you gonna sit here and argue Sukuna's got skills capable of bypassing this? Go reread the fight and tell me what "skill" Sukuna showed to let him bypass Maki's senses. If you haven't gotten my point yet, Maki's senses aren't useful in close combat against someone comparable to her, that is all.

• Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Analytical Prediction (Able to see curses which are invisible to the naked eye. Her regular senses should be sharp to the point she can pick up on human odors and footprints like Toji. Her eyes also can see the differences in temperature and density of air, she is also able to predict how one will move based off this.[9] Became able to "feel everything" about herself and their oppenent[10])
• Information Analysis (After her enlightenment, categorical distinctions between stimuli types stopped existing, and extended her sensory range vastly beyond her bodies' natural range to sense through her environment, effectively "seeing the souls of inanimate objects")

Reread it? I haven't even gotten to the fight yet. I claimed in my earlier post (That you clearly didn't read if you didn't know this) that I'm not caught up with the manga and only occasionally look into spoilers.

And yes, Sukuna who also fought a 3v1 against Yuta, Yuji, and Rika when Yuta used a cursed technique that lets him see the FUTURE to precog opponents is additional proof that he can deal with opponents who use precognition. Let alone Maki's inferior senses in a 2v1.

So quit making this asinine paradigm that Maki's senses aren't good against comparable opponents and only work on inferior opponents or whatever you're getting at.

It can't just be I disagree and see the character differently? I'd say there's more of a bias with you to think Maki's got better skill here.

You missed the part where I made that claim because you've made it seem as though you've completely skimmed over my previous post. Not just because you "think differently". Several points you made were already addressed in my earlier comment, and you're even making statements to "reread" fights that I openly told you I'm not even AT yet. So yes, I feel sussed out by your arguments.

Quanxi would do the same, and wouldn't even need to because of how much faster she is. Similar situation, both presented with numerous opponents and Quanxi targets all of them and slices their heads off with no issue. Maki on the other hand couldn't do so, you're bias if you think Maki flipping on people's backs is more impressive. Also she did it one time, stop acting like she was a masterful acrobatic using their bodies to move around them lmao.

I didn't say Quanxi couldn't. Though I don't think Maki choosing to not cut every single of their heads off is something against acrobatics. I should make it clear if it isn't already: I don't think Maki is more acrobatic. I think she's within Quanxi's realm, but I can agree with Quanxi being above her in that department. Dunno where you got the idea I said she was some masterful acrobatic? My standards for that are something far beyond what either contenders have displayed. But believe what you want I guess?

You aren't paying attention. From afar it is godly, up close it is not, I think I've brought this up three times already.

I wouldn't say it's "godly" from afar either. It's certainly more effective at range on attrition of having more distance to react (Though that can be said for most precogs), but it's not a precog I'd call "godly". There's LOTS of people who do it better.

So then why did you use Sukuna as an example of experience? He didn't experience the entire 1000 years, he was a cursed object for all of it.

This is fair. I used Sukuna because Maki actually fought him and because Sukuna is one of the most skilled people in-verse. If she had fought Kenjaku, I would've instead used him as an example. Or Tengen. But neither of those happened, so I just left them out.

Its the first time I mentioned Kishibe in regards to skill here? No one said by default, I only said its a common trope in fiction to denote one's skill in the field. Experience and knowledge go in hand with skill also.

I think it's supplementary to skill. But I feel it's being given too much ground in this thread. Apologies if it is the first time you mentioned Kishibe tho. I coulda swear you did in one of your previous replies. But I must have been thinking of Gunshy.

Or Gege doesn't care to talk about it? I know several mangas that do this trope yet give the title to the more recent member of the race/group as the strongest.

Alright, cool. Those other manga's are unrelated to JJK. From what I recall, Sukuna is called the strongest both by other characters and by narration. It requires baseless assertions to assume the "first" sorcerers/curses are stronger when there's direct statements of others being the strongest in history. If Sukuna wasn't referred to as such, I can understand the laxed stance that it's "Not safe to claim he is". But as it is, that's far too lenient.

 

[Arkenis]

Quanxi fra

 

[GunshyFever]

I'm on my PC now, but I'm also lazy rn, so ill make args for transformed Quanxi tmmr

 

[Harith0cell]

voting maki via reason above.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I was not expecting a JJK skillslop debate without any mention of Re:Zero, definitely caught me off guard. Anyways, Maki FRA.