Major Fire Emblem Revisions

[JustSomeWeirdo]

General/Misc. Stuff

1. Should we just say what the skills give the user instead of just making up a flowery language or straw grasping descriptions for them, they honestly just seem like some child's poor headcanon

2. What should we do about secondary classes? Not the MU secondaries as there isn't a real Canon about them, should we mention them on the characters profiles or just continue disregarding them?

3. Skill Inheritance, should the child unit profiles mention the possible skills they could inherit from their possible parents from their Canon class? (Or should potential non-avatar secondaries be considered as well?)

4. Alternate class changes, such as the FE8 and FE15 villagers, should they get the skills and weapons they could've possibly learned on their profiles?

5. Haxxed weapons/Weapons with their own abilities, should they be put into profiles (as long as their obtainable in the game said character comes from, of course)

Mystery of The Emblem
1. Negating invulnerability that is similar to Gharnef's imhullu via Starlight (for mages)

Gaiden/Echoes
1. Item Granted skills, should we put them on the profiles?

2. Dread Fighters can turn into Villagers, should they get the branching classes that the villagers get?

3. Unique spells to be mentioned on each mage profile, since not all of them learn the same spells

4. Power Nullification for Valentian Falchion

https://gyazo.com/29be1612a20003e7be58d89c8e618fed


5. The ragnorok spell isn't country level, Delthia learns it and would still be High 8-C, there's also no information pointing towards 6-B Ragnorok

Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776
1. Canon pairings for the 2nd Gen profiles, when these profiles are made, there are certain Canon pairings made in Thracia 776, which does effect the skills they would have canonically inherited and the Holy Blood (such as Ced inheriting Forseti)

2. Should the weapons gained during conversations (such as Lachesis getting a Thief Sword from Dew) fall under Standard Equipment for said character?

Binding Blade, Blazing Sword, and Sacred Stones
1. We have these characters as High 8-C scaling to the Manaketes (for FE6 and 7) or Draco zombies (FE8), saying they are at this level via size, while they're shown to be comparable to your mounted units in size

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A bit too many questions for me to answer all at once, but I'll try to help as best I can.

Not sure how it could be properly explained; but I'm all for the various skills or weapons being added to their profiles regarding the general revisions. Child units probably should have the abilities inherited from possible parents IMO. I don't know about the term, flowerly language; that just confuses me.

I agree with Starlight's ability. Maybe it could be considered; immortality type 8 negation in some categories? Pretty sure Starlight could destroy Voldemort's horcruxes.

Some of the Gaiden questions seem like a repeat of the first section. The Falchion's ability seems legit, and it might scale to other Falchion; Spoiler Alert for Fire Emblem Echoes It is revealed that Fire Emblem Wikia was write about Naga and Duma's dispute and that the Valentian Falchion does come from Naga's fang. But power nullification might be limited to dragons.

I got nothing on FE 4 & 5

As for the GBA Fire Emblem games, I still think they should have High 8-C base forms scaling from the feat from Fates, but I guess they reasons listed could be changed.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

What I meant was that we try to describe the skills instead of just saying what they do, and the GBA games are in different universes, so I doubt that they should scale

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, and I guess that makes sense. Would the Tellius base forms get downgraded as well, or is Kurthnaga's tower busting feat still Large Building Level instead of stait up Building Level like it was previously. Anyway, I suppose the manakates and Draco Zombies could be closer just plain 8-C instead of High 8-C.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Surprised you didn't bring up Dumas eye lasers to push for a speed upgrade as they're pretty much identical to the justification used here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Onox and here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Wobblewok

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I actually don't even know if that's an 8-C feat, but I suppose it should be calced

and if Duma's eye lasers are true lasers then everyone should honestly just be Lightspeed, since they can dodge attacks from someone capable of attacking at the Speed of Light (There's no reason for other attack of his to be in slow motion in comparison), but that's only if they're actually true lasers

 

[Reppuzan]

@JSW

I agree with making the skill explanations clearer, since they were made when you-know-who was still around. I'll have to get to it later.

I think it would be worth mentioning the secondary classes' skills.

Which should probably stay far away from skill inheritance as there's very little in the way of canon pairings in Genealogy or Awakening aside from some obvious nudges (i.e. Sumia and Chrom). Of course, my knowledge of Genealogy and Thracia is sketchy at best, so use your better judgment here.

As for the Villagers, it's based to stick to what they're most frequently portrayed as. For example, Gray appears most frequently in side works as a Mercenary/Dread Fighter, so I'd stick with that.

As long as said haxxed weapons canonically fall into the wielders' possession (i.e. the Legendary Weapons of Elibe and the Sacred Twins of Magvel) I don't see why not. That said, the characters in question should at least have some relation to the weapons at hand (i.e. Sieglinde and Eirika).

I'm not sure about this one. Starlight works because it was forged from the spheres that immediately oppose the darkness used to create Imhullu.

About Echoes' item skills, only for items that canonically belong to the characters. For example, Alm would get the skills granted by the Royal Sword and Falchion, while Celica would get the skills granted by the Golden Dagger and Beloved Zofia.

The unique spells should be a given, but they should only be mentioned if the character naturally promotes into Mage and it should also be mentioned that they can't use them without being in the mage classes first, which would annul their other skills.

The Valentian Falchion would actually be a god-sealer, as it is referred to as the "one and only god-slaying sword" and it was stated that Mila was sealed within. It should be mentioned that it has only been shown to work against divine beings like the Divine Dragon Mila.

Who the heck made Celica Country level because of that?

Weapons gained through conversations (which I presume are relatively canon) should be okay to add.

They quite clearly dwarf our units, but I suppose Building level might be more appropriate for scaling off Manaketes.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

We should honestly just change it and say, for example: "Sol grants the user absorption based on damage dealt to the opponent"

^Well, there are a few canon FE4 pairings, (iirc one of them is Finn and Lachesis)

Well, I suppose we could go with "canon" classes for the Villagers

About Item granted skills, it's not like for example, Gray canonically has an Iron sword on him the entire time, or that Boey canonically just uses an Iron Shield

For "haxxed weapons", the game doesn't make it clear on anyone actually canonically using them (Except maybe something like Canas using the Luna tome, since he's your only dark magic user until Athos), which makes this really a similar point here

So, for example, Dread Fighters promoting into a villager and then into mage wouldn't count unless they're a character that already started as a villager, I assume (Or just Straight from Villager to Mage)

I mean, the scan did say that Mila's powers were sealed

I believe it was you-know-who

And the Fire Dragon in FE7 actually quite clearly dwarfs the manaketes, I only included FE7 there because their bases scale to FE6 bases

 

[Reppuzan]

1) I would say something more along the lines of, "Upon activation, Sol heals "insert character name here"'s wounds proportionally to the amount of damage they deal.

2) If they are canon pairings, go for it.

3) Not sure how applicable this is, but you could go for things that they're depicted to wield (i.e. Gray wielding a Levin Sword). Be careful though, as there are things like Faye wielding into a bow even though she doesn't have access to the Archer class.

4) Yeah, I'd rather go for the straight lines rather than the Dread Fighter loop.

5) I'll have to find that scene again, but I guess that Power Nullification would work for the time beings. It should be noted that it only works on gods though.

6) In side materials, fodder-Manaketes can demolish entire castles with their size alone. They might not be the main canon, but it's still notable.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

This seems to be a case of inconsistent size honestly. Not much ya can do about that. Theres other stuff that can net 8-C for them though. Except FE7, dont recall many feats there that scales to everyone.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

3. Yes, I know about Faye not being able to be an Archer in Echoes, but shouldn't they just get the weapons they're capable of wielding? Since that would be easier, especially for units that just start out with a basic weapon and aren't ever shown in trailers with a weapon (and then there's also the other games, which didn't exactly get this treatment)

6. Well, I don't think we should use that unless the manga is canon, which I don't believe it is (I mean, unless FE Manga profiles are made or something)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Keep in mind, that the size of the dragons need to be judged on a 3-dimensional scale. Might be easy to judge 2-D, but they're actually several times bigger than the mounted units on 3-D scale.

And yeah, I still think the FE7 base forms should still scale if the FE6 characters have building level feats. It does still take place in the same universe and Hector, excluding Divine weapons, is considered to be physically the strongest human in Elibe. So I have doubts his base form would be any lower than Roy's.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bartre, Marcus, and Karel also scale

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

True, and their younger selves are obviously stronger than their old selves. Better yet, if Marcus scales, everyone definately scales.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I am not of much help with Fire Emblem. Sorry.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

In response to @Reppuzan, the Valentian Falchion would actually be a dragon sealer rather than a god sealer considering Fire Emblem Echoes spoilers. The Archanean Falchion is also a dragon sealer due to being able to seal Grima.

As for Duma's eye lasers that @12cheeper mentioned above, not sure if they're counted as real lasers. But if they are, it might be considered more like aim dodging; don't need to be FTL to dodge a lightspeed attack. Unlike the Aureola, it was canonicly used against the heroes. But if it scales to end game Alm without it being considered an outlier, who else would it scale too?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

All attacks are considered to be the same speed, I believe (and it would make no sense that Duma's lasers are lightspeed but every other attack is only Hypersonic), which would mean that (At the very least) Valentian Falchion Alm (Although he was shown to still be comparable to Celica in speed, iirc) should be straight up SoL if that's the case, there's no reason for him to be slower than Duma

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I agree. I personally don't think they should be considered real lasers and keep the speed ratings the way they are.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Za Bumpo

 

[Reppuzan]

@Weirdo

I'm still running through Echoes, so I'll have to reach the end in order to properly comment on the Echoes revisions.

Whoever makes Alm's and Celica's profiles should also mention Mila's Turnwheel.

 

[Dark649]

I have played and saw most of the games: In Sacred Stones we have the Draco Zombies, which are 9-A by size via scaling to the entrance of the temple. For Binding Blade/Blazing Sword we have the size and power of the weaker fire dragons, which seems to be overall 8-C by their actions and their appearance in the manga.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dark649

Stronger Fire Dragons can level entire castles in the manga just by taking on their dragon forms. That might warrant an 8-B rating.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I don't believe that we should be using the Manga....especially the FE6 manga, which is incredibly different than the game

 

[Dark649]

The FE6 manga, which is incredibly different than the game.

I just reread a chapter and Eliwood past seems to be different than the games as he doesn't know what Fire Emblem is.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

There's also the fact that the manga-exclusive characters are well....there to begin with

and using the manga would just be a lot of Wall level feats anyway

(since IIRC the larger manakete was defeated with a Wyrmslayer, then Al attacking it from the inside, and then super PIS Dual Sword Strike from weapons that previously never even damaged it)

 

[Reppuzan]

@JSW

To be fair, the manga characters are referenced in the actual game by the presence of their weapons.

I'm just pointing something out. I also don't want to use the manga for scaling, but it does give us a better sense of how big manaketes are in their dragon forms.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Yes, I know about the weapons, but the characters themselves aren't present, nor do they have importance to the story

I think the manaketes might be 9-A via size though

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm rather neutral on using the manga; I haven't read it so I don't know much, but using it as a source for the size of the manakates seem plausible. The in game size of the manakates seem like limitations due to game mechanics if you ask me. I'm okay with the Sacred Stones character baseforms being downgraded to 9-A, but I still think FE 6&7 base forms should be at least 8-C.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Just a note, even uf nanga was accepted, would it not be retvonned by remakes ie Echoes and Shadow Dragon retconning the manga made for the the original games as the remakes superceed previous adaption?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@J-Man The Manga is more secondary canon with the games being primary canon. So we usually stick with the games if there are too many controversies with the manga. But if the Manga gives us details that are neither revealed nor debunked in game, then it may be used.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Nah I'm aware of games being primary, I'm just asking if they care accepted would remakes that came after supervised everything basically. Although I'm a bit iffy on using the manga, some should be okay while others due to inconsistency. So case by case maybe?

 

[Fire_Emblem_Fan1991]

Anyways, in the latest Fire Emblem Heroes Event, it was revealed that the masked dude was just pretending to be Veronica's brother and that he can shape-shift, calling himself Loki.

And i wont claim stuff, but the Tempest Rite they talk about could possibly be 2-C, since it was said the tempest storm could pierce thru the "worlds" and combine them randomly.

And since most fire emblem "worlds" are different timelines...

Full Chapter video. https://youtu.be/BrfhP2cb9rk

Some screenshots

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

^That would only scale to FEH characters, and that's only considering if it's someone's ability and not via prep or just some random thing

but yea, combining universes be 2-C

FEH stomps Goku

 

[Fire_Emblem_Fan1991]

Not xenoverse goku tho.

Anyways. It depends on how the story is going to continue. But for now, based on that description alone...we could have 2-C with prep Fire Emblem Heroes Veronica and Loki.

Anyways, someone should rename the Bruno page to Loki.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I guess for now it would just be "At least 9-B, Possibly 2-C"? (I guess Loki or Veronica did it? I haven't played FEH in a while)

That would be the largest gap on a profile I made, and even then it would scale to 3 more profiles

 

[Fire_Emblem_Fan1991]

Both of them are doing it.

And the Tempest (The storm thingy) is already present in the battle map, but simce the cast doesnt say anything special while entering it, it being active right now would be non canon.

Also, jojo characters do have these gaps, why not FE?

And the 2-C part would be with prep.

All the details are on the video i linked.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, perhaps it shouldn't be used if it isn't canon to FEH

Also Bump

 

[Fire_Emblem_Fan1991]

It is canon to FEH.

The episode itself clarifies it is canon. Tempest is a 100% canon 2-C FEH spell/rite.

But it hasnt happened "yet" in the plot, the tempest trials are just a gameplay event for now.