Madness Combat: Questionable Lifting Strength

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

So, as you know thanks to this now Mag Agents, Mag Hank, Expurgation Tricky, Jeb and Auditor (with halo) are now supposed to Class M in lifting strength if i know true. The problem here is that: Why they do scale to Gestalt's feats? Keep in mind Gestalt during the game shown to be absurdly superior to the cast alongside any other enemies in the game. Jeb and Hank, both of them who has taken mag agents before in the game, were running from him for their life due to they can't do jack to him. Literally almost every encounter with Gestalt is you running from and avoiding him as much as possible with the only exception is the final boss fight where you nullify his durability with Divergence Engine than taking it down with things like rocket launchers. Church and Jorge, whose have fought with Sanford and Deimos and survived numerous of times (not to mention in the wiki mags and G03LMs are superior to the base forms of the main characters) get crushed into paste by it even when they were covered in bulletproof armors. Not to mention even in the main series we have clearly seen some Mag Agents being superior to the other (Mag Agent V4 overpowering Hank with one hand and slamming him through concrete but Mag Agent V3 failing to wrestle with him).



Not related but has anybody thought about calculating this? If it's possible to do i think it might give us Class 5-10 strength, just saying.

 

[Antvasima]

I moved this thread from our staff forum to our questions and answers forum.

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Alright

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

@Comiphorous @Psychomaster35 @Thelastmlg @Sinpokefan @Employe

 

[Sinpokefan]

Yeah I agree to it on another hand and as an extra base Hank should scale to the G03LM in lifting strength and they are capable of lifting mining trucks which weight roughly 360 tons

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Yeah I agree to it on another hand and as an extra base Hank should scale to the G03LM in lifting strength and they are capable of lifting mining trucks which weight roughly 360 tons

This had occurred to my mind before, but later I was very suspicious of its validity, how do we know that this is not a lie made by Nexus Core to marketting? However, Mag agents still must be at least Class 10. Torture can lift and fire his mossberg 500, which should weigh more than 3 tons (it uses 20 kg slugs which should be nearly 900 times heavier than normal ones), with one hand with no problem. I don't think Hank scales to G03LMs either, Krinkels is very inconsistent about his statements, he once said base Hank is superior to G03LMs than later said only Mag Hank is superior to G03LMs. And this statement about them lifting trucks is only for Dissonance G03LMs whose should be superior to normal ones (according to the game)

 

[Sinpokefan]

This had occurred to my mind before, but later I was very suspicious of its validity, how do we know that this is not a lie made by Nexus Core to marketting? However, Mag agents still must be at least Class 10. Torture can lift and fire his mossberg 500, which should weigh more than 3 tons (it uses 20 kg slugs which should be nearly 900 times heavier than normal ones), with one hand with no problem. I don't think Hank scales to G03LMs either, Krinkels is very inconsistent about his statements, he once said base Hank is superior to G03LMs than later said only Mag Hank is superior to G03LMs. And this statement about them lifting trucks is only for Dissonance G03LMs whose should be superior to normal ones (according to the game)

Nop it goes for all the G03LM and it makes sense for them to be able to do so considering that A they are servants and b the black Guard is able to do acrobatics with an armor so being able to lift those things should be consistent along the massive swords and axes

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Nop it goes for all the G03LM and it makes sense for them to be able to do so considering that A they are servants and b the black Guard is able to do acrobatics with an armor so being able to lift those things should be consistent along the massive swords and axes

"Well, fret no more. Because phase two Generation 03 model butlers is now underway! We've got the tech to pump them out bigger, stronger and more helpful than before"

Not to mention this statement is in the room where dissonant G03LMs appear.

I doubt being able to jump with large metal armor and a 4 meter melee wapons is same as lifting over 300 ton, beside Black Guard is obviously much stronger than a normal G03LM since his boss fight happens with him one shotting two armored G03LM without using any weapon. I'm iffy on the truck thing, ever heard of hyperbole?

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Bump

 

[Sinpokefan]

Speaking of that

"Well, fret no more. Because phase two Generation 03 model butlers is now underway! We've got the tech to pump them out bigger, stronger and more helpful than before"

No to mention this statements is in the room where dissonant G03LMs appear.

I doubt being able to jump with large metal armor and a 4 meter melee wapons is same as lifting over 300 ton, beside Black Guard is obviously much stronger than a normal G03LM since his boss fight happens with him one shotting two armored G03LM without using any weapon. I'm iffy on the truck thing, ever heard of hyperbole?

Has someone calc the black Guard feat?

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Has someone calc the black Guard feat?

No

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Bump

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Bump

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Bump

 

[Comiphorous]

The reason why any of the characters scale to this is because this was an early Gestalt, who has not been given any time to adapt to anything and therefore shouldn't be absurdly strong like his later carnation.

Early gestalt should be as strong as a regular Mag Agent as that's exactly what he is established as in the first project nexus, and there isn't really any proof he evolved at all since his death in the first project nexus.

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

The reason why any of the characters scale to this is because this was an early Gestalt, who has not been given any time to adapt to anything and therefore shouldn't be absurdly strong like his later carnation.

Early gestalt should be as strong as a regular Mag Agent as that's exactly what he is established as in the first project nexus, and there isn't really any proof he evolved at all since his death in the first project nexus.

Jeb solo'd Gestalt alongside mass amounts of abominations and agents in Project Nexus Classic before stealing the halo meanwhile in the second game despite having his halo + Hank on his side instead of trying to kill him he and Hank ran away, not to mention Gestalt is pretty much immune to your attacks in game (might be argued as gameplay BS tho but still)

 

[Comiphorous]

Jeb solo'd Gestalt alongside mass amounts of abominations and agents in Project Nexus Classic before stealing the halo meanwhile in the second game despite having his halo + Hank on his side instead of trying to kill him he and Hank ran away, not to mention Gestalt is pretty much immune to your attacks in game (might be argued as gameplay BS tho but still)

That was due to Gestalt being given defenses which made him immune to damage (which is referred to in game, so it's not a gameplay mechanic), not because he was that above in physical strength. you can even see in that same video Jeb take a hit from Gestalt without problem. it's only his later carnations which is when he becomes unbelievably stronger than the protagonists.

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

That was due to Gestalt being given defenses which made him immune to damage (which is referred to in game, so it's not a gameplay mechanic), not because he was that above in physical strength.

This is a weird argument. Why we assume Gestalt in Project Nexus was only so out of the cast in terms of power in his final incarnations and not his other ones? We don't have proof for his AP not scaling to his durability.

you can even see in that same video Jeb take a hit from Gestalt without problem.

Armored Church and Jorge can take hits from final form Gestalt with mosquito-bite levels of damage in playground mode. In cutscenes Gestalt literally crushed Jorge to paste and ate Church's head and helmet off with no effort

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

That being said i changed my mind (partially) about the truck thing, i'm neutral to the statement being accepted, even if i still think it should be taken with grain of salt

 

[Sinpokefan]

Yei still I think you are kinda misinterpreted this

Semi mags/G03LM scale to the truck feat

MAGS scale to Gestalt

The reason why Mag Hank scales to Gestalt is because he overpowered a mag agent

 

[Sinpokefan]

Which would give base Hank class K and mag Hank class M

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Yei still I think you are kinda misinterpreted this

Semi mags/G03LM scale to the truck feat

MAGS scale to Gestalt

The reason why Mag Hank scales to Gestalt is because he overpowered a mag agent

I'm pretty sure G03LMs and semi mags accepted as comparabe to mags in the wiki, given the AAHW profile.


Gestalt is Gestalt, no mag agent from the series should scale to him, other than himself.


Disagree with base Hank being Class M. Krinkels is very inconsistent about his statements (he first said base Hank is stronger than a G03LM than later said Mag Hank is stronger than a G03LM). In one of the Krinkels' streams about Madness Combat 12 directly shows that a half mag easily overpowers Sanford in a grapple (who's stated to be comparable to Hank). The truck statement, if could accepted only should scale to mags, G03LMs, Mag Hank, some forms of Tricky and (indirectly) halo users.

 

[Sinpokefan]

I don't see why mags shouldn't scale to base Gestalt which is the one with the class M feat and krinkels put Sanford as inferior to normal G03LM/semi mags while base Hank is superior to G03LM/semi mags while being comparable to above average G03LM like the disonant one which would make it like this


Sanford<<G03LM<<<especial G03LM≈Hank<<<<<Gestalt (base)≈Mags<Mag Hank≈<Tricky<Mag Hank 11<≈hell tricky<<<Gestalt second aparition<<Gestalt third aparition<Gestalt prime

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Bump

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

I don't see why mags shouldn't scale to base Gestalt which is the one with the class M feat and krinkels put Sanford as inferior to normal G03LM/semi mags while base Hank is superior to G03LM/semi mags while being comparable to above average G03LM like the disonant one which would make it like this

I already explained why they shouldn't scale to Gestalt. Krinkels also said Hank is at comparable strength to Sanford literally twice.

 

[Comiphorous]

This is a weird argument. Why we assume Gestalt in Project Nexus was only so out of the cast in terms of power in his final incarnations and not his other ones? We don't have proof for his AP not scaling to his durability.

each encounter with him he gets stronger and stronger, the reason why jeb wanted to run from Gestalt in the first encounter was not only because they could not harm him due to his defensive measures, but because that'd only make gestalt stronger if they stayed a fought him.

Wdym 'no proof'? Gestalt's durability is literally given to us as absurdly better than his AP in basically all of his encounters, i have no idea where you got that idea from. being invulnerable to all damage even at his weakest state where he's literally just a regular mag agent in strength is proof his Durability is higher than his AP

Unless you want to argue Gestalt got hundreds of times stronger between project nexus 1 and 2 (which doesn't make sense, since he hasn't had any time to adapt and become stronger when he pulled off the feat he did), he has zero reason to be absurdly stronger during his first boss fight and when Jebus killed him.

Armored Church and Jorge can take hits from final form Gestalt with mosquito-bite levels of damage in playground mode. In cutscenes Gestalt literally crushed Jorge to paste and ate Church's head and helmet off with no effort

Your comparing a non-canonical gamemode to the canonical story to the game...? I don't think i need to explain why that's a horrible comparison.

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

Wdym 'no proof'? Gestalt's durability is literally given to us as absurdly better than his AP in basically all of his encounters, i have no idea where you got that idea from. being invulnerable to all damage even at his weakest state where he's literally just a regular mag agent in strength is proof his Durability is higher than his AP

Unless you want to argue Gestalt got hundreds of times stronger between project nexus 1 and 2 (which doesn't make sense, since he hasn't had any time to adapt and become stronger when he pulled off the feat he did), he has zero reason to be absurdly stronger during his first boss fight and when Jebus killed him.

If he got much more durable than i don't see why assuming he also got stronger in MPN2 is absurd. There is also the very fact that no mag agent or comparable character fought with him in the game

Your comparing a non-canonical gamemode to the canonical story to the game...? I don't think i need to explain why that's a horrible comparison.

Who said this is only relevant for non-canon gamemode? In the story mode in final Gestalt boss fight if you get stomped by him as Sanford and Deimos you can survive it with some damage, meanwhile in cutscenes we see that isn't the case given how Church and Jorge (and as armored) curbstomped by him

 

[Comiphorous]

If he got much more durable than i don't see why assuming he also got stronger in MPN2 is absurd. There is also the very fact that no mag agent or comparable character fought with him in the game

Because that doesn't make any damn sense You can't scale Gestalt to his borderline invulnerability to his AP when his boss fights he can trade blows with the protagonists without completely pasting them by looking at them wrong (which is what would have happened if he did scale to his durability)

Who said this is only relevant for non-canon gamemode? In the story mode in final Gestalt boss fight if you get stomped by him as Sanford and Deimos you can survive it with some damage, meanwhile in cutscenes we see that isn't the case given how Church and Jorge (and as armored) curbstomped by him

that literally proves my point. if Gestalt can't paste Sanford and Deimos (who, in this game, showcase the ability to take down mags and G03LMs with only some difficulty) then he doesn't scale to his durability. that also is just showcasing that Hank, Deimos, Sanford, and Gestalt (which really didn't need to be showcased at this point) are all above Church and Jorge physically.

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

when his boss fights he can trade blows with the protagonists without completely pasting them by looking at them wrong (which is what would have happened if he did scale to his durability)

Gestalt not being able to turn protagonists into paste is obviously game mechanic. You might as well try scale AAHW agents to Hank or scale regular AAHW grunts to arena mode protagonist because they can hurt you in the game.

that literally proves my point. if Gestalt can't paste Sanford and Deimos (who, in this game, showcase the ability to take down mags and G03LMs with only some difficulty) then he doesn't scale to his durability. that also is just showcasing that Hank, Deimos, Sanford, and Gestalt (which really didn't need to be showcased at this point) are all above Church and Jorge physically.

Sanford and Deimos doesn't go and solos several at mags in a direct fist fight or something like that, sure they scale but they obviously aren't completelly equal to them at strength. Hank vs Torture, Sanford vs half-mag. VSBW also accepts mags and G03LMs as physical superiors to the protagonists' base form. Hank and the cast obviously isn't superior to Church and Jorge as they literally appear as rivals to the Sanford and Deimos multiple times.

 

[Comiphorous]

Gestalt not being able to turn protagonists into paste is obviously game mechanic. You might as well try scale AAHW agents to Hank or scale regular AAHW grunts to arena mode protagonist because they can hurt you in the game.

The entire point of Mag Hank scaling to the Class M is the fact he scales to an early Gestalt, who, by product of Project Nexus 1, is a regular Mag Agent in strength. you don't have any proof that isn't the case. it doesn't matter how strong or the mechanics of his later forms as this entire debate is about Gestalt's first encounter, who shown in game, showcases strength completely reasonably in line with a regular mag agent's

Sanford and Deimos doesn't go and solos several at mags in a direct fist fight or something like that, sure they scale but they obviously aren't completelly equal to them at strength. Hank vs Torture, Sanford vs half-mag. VSBW also accepts mags and G03LMs as physical superiors to the protagonists' base form. Hank and the cast obviously isn't superior to Church and Jorge as they literally appear as rivals to the Sanford and Deimos multiple times.

Both deimos and Sanford can physically beat down both Church and Jorge though, it's shown in the video you linked of them fighting...

also, using an unreleased episode of Sanford fighting a Half-Mag isn't going to be accepted. double also, we typically take the games/animations before krinkles word, as he has at times contradicted and made little sense when talking about stuff like the other place and the nowhere. (which, is an unfortunate byproduct of someone else writing the more complicated parts of the lore)

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

The entire point of Mag Hank scaling to the Class M is the fact he scales to an early Gestalt, who, by product of Project Nexus 1, is a regular Mag Agent in strength. you don't have any proof that isn't the case. it doesn't matter how strong or the mechanics of his later forms as this entire debate is about Gestalt's first encounter, who shown in game, showcases strength completely reasonably in line with a regular mag agent's

Again, what i'm saying is we don't have evidence of earlier Gestalt in MPN2 being equal/comparable to him in MNC. Gestalt in MN is obviously much more durable than his MNC counterpart for example.

Both deimos and Sanford can physically beat down both Church and Jorge though, it's shown in the video you linked of them fighting...

Okay but they don't instantly one shot Church and Jorge, and Church and Jorhe appears as bosses in the game multiple times, meaning they're comparable.

also, using an unreleased episode of Sanford fighting a Half-Mag isn't going to be accepted. double also, we typically take the games/animations before krinkles word, as he has at times contradicted and made little sense when talking about stuff like the other place and the nowhere. (which, is an unfortunate byproduct of someone else writing the more complicated parts of the lore)

It's not like i posted a fan-made animation or something like that. Yes, the said episode is unreleased but it will gonna be released at the end of the day, and this scene is in the said aniamtion. I don't remember saying we should take Krinkels' statements as the priority so idfk what's your point.

 

[Comiphorous]

Again, what i'm saying is we don't have evidence of earlier Gestalt in MPN2 being equal/comparable to him in MNC. Gestalt in MN is obviously much more durable than his MNC counterpart for example.

the evidence being thats the first time gestalt being active since his death, when he was a regular mag agent. unless he was out and about evolving before we saw him for the first time i'd say thats reasonable, but the first time we see Gestalt was the first time we see him since his death, he had zero time to evolve. he didn't have enough time to take any S-3LF energy from the other place to make him any way stronger than his other mag agent counterparts.

unless theres any statements saying between the time of his resurrection, he was active, theres no way he got physically stronger.

Okay but they don't instantly one shot Church and Jorge, and Church and Jorhe appears as bosses in the game multiple times, meaning they're comparable.

comparable. key word there, either Church and Jorge are weaker G03LMs, or Sanford and Deimos are physically comparable to Mag Agents (which, the scaling should change that half-mags/G03LMS are weaker than mag agents imo) which either means Gestalt is comparable to other mag agents, or he simply upscales from them. both would make Hank and the others viable to scale to the class M feat.

It's not like i posted a fan-made animation or something like that. Yes, the said episode is unreleased but it will gonna be released at the end of the day, and this scene is in the said aniamtion. I don't remember saying we should take Krinkels' statements as the priority so idfk what's your point.

It's not released. you cannot argue to use literally unreleased content which could take years to release. wait until the episode is released to use it. things can change during production. it's simply unsafe to use the feat until it releases and we get more context to the episode.

 

[Sinpokefan]

the evidence being thats the first time gestalt being active since his death, when he was a regular mag agent. unless he was out and about evolving before we saw him for the first time i'd say thats reasonable, but the first time we see Gestalt was the first time we see him since his death, he had zero time to evolve. he didn't have enough time to take any S-3LF energy from the other place to make him any way stronger than his other mag agent counterparts.

unless theres any statements saying between the time of his resurrection, he was active, theres no way he got physically stronger.

comparable. key word there, either Church and Jorge are weaker G03LMs, or Sanford and Deimos are physically comparable to Mag Agents (which, the scaling should change that half-mags/G03LMS are weaker than mag agents imo) which either means Gestalt is comparable to other mag agents, or he simply upscales from them. both would make Hank and the others viable to scale to the class M feat.

It's not released. you cannot argue to use literally unreleased content which could take years to release. wait until the episode is released to use it. things can change during production. it's simply unsafe to use the feat until it releases and we get more context to the episode.

BTW church and Jorge aren't bellow average G03LM. It's the opposite with church being above average G03LM in strength

 

[Comiphorous]

BTW church and Jorge aren't bellow average G03LM. It's the opposite with church being above average G03LM in strength

im taking feats they showcased over Krinkles word, as he has a tendency to say stuff which contradict a lot. Church and Jorge showcased being equals to Deimos and Sanford, who are weaker than G03LMs. which either means Sanford and Deimos are equally as strong as G03LMS (which doesn't make sense) or Jorge and Church are weaker than most G03LMs

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

unless theres any statements saying between the time of his resurrection, he was active, theres no way he got physically stronger.

Like the way he got more durable?

comparable. key word there, either Church and Jorge are weaker G03LMs, or Sanford and Deimos are physically comparable to Mag Agents (which, the scaling should change that half-mags/G03LMS are weaker than mag agents imo) which either means Gestalt is comparable to other mag agents, or he simply upscales from them. both would make Hank and the others viable to scale to the class M feat.

Again if Sanford and Deimos was strong as Gestalt they would one tap them in every Church and Jorge boss fight.

It's not released. you cannot argue to use literally unreleased content which could take years to release. wait until the episode is released to use it. things can change during production. it's simply unsafe to use the feat until it releases and we get more context to the episode.

Alright fine. I won't gonna use it for now.

im taking feats they showcased over Krinkles word, as he has a tendency to say stuff which contradict a lot. Church and Jorge showcased being equals to Deimos and Sanford, who are weaker than G03LMs. which either means Sanford and Deimos are equally as strong as G03LMS (which doesn't make sense) or Jorge and Church are weaker than most G03LMs

To be fair Sanford and Deimos has foddered quite a lot G03LM and mag in the games,n ot just Church and Jorge.

 

[Comiphorous]

Like the way he got more durable?

His strength is amplified when he takes S-3LF from the other place, something he only started doing when he was activated at the same time we first meet him in MPN2. he had no time to amp his strength. His strength and durability are notably DIFFERENT. so different in fact he's just as durable as he is at the beginning of the game. you can't use that logic. you can't scale invulnerability to any physical strength in this context.

Again if Sanford and Deimos was strong as Gestalt they would one tap them in every Church and Jorge boss fight.

But they aren't. they're weaker than hank who downscales from Mag Agents.

To be fair Sanford and Deimos has foddered quite a lot G03LM and mag in the games,n ot just Church and Jorge.

There is a slight consistency issue between project nexus and the main episodes with their strength. it's not that bad but it's notable enough where you can tell that sanford is shown stronger in Project Nexus than he is in the main episodes, despite the game taking place around Consternation. (which is why im iffy on using main episodes as counter arguments against the games, since the games do show the character's more acrobatic side)

 

[Hank_J._Wimbleton_69]

His strength is amplified when he takes S-3LF from the other place, something he only started doing when he was activated at the same time we first meet him in MPN2. he had no time to amp his strength. His strength and durability are notably DIFFERENT. so different in fact he's just as durable as he is at the beginning of the game. you can't use that logic. you can't scale invulnerability to any physical strength in this context.

Again, what your stating isn't confirmed. Sure, Gestalt got stronger the more he takes more S-3LF, but there is no confirmatipn that his strength wasn't already amplified since MNC. In addition to that his durability has shown to be much greater, protagonists never trying to fight with him, Nexus Core's technology being visibly greater compared to them in MNC chapter 1.5 (and there being 30 year difference between MNC ch.15 and MN story mode) there being not any lifting strength feat close to this in game or animation done by an another mag.

But they aren't. they're weaker than hank who downscales from Mag Agents.

Exactly, that's what i'm saying.

There is a slight consistency issue between project nexus and the main episodes with their strength. it's not that bad but it's notable enough where you can tell that sanford is shown stronger in Project Nexus than he is in the main episodes, despite the game taking place around Consternation. (which is why im iffy on using main episodes as counter arguments against the games, since the games do show the character's more acrobatic side)

Hmmmmm... maybe Sanford and Deimos didn't actually took down mags and G03LMs with seher strength canonically? At the end of the Day their fight between mags and G03LMs doesn't shown hoe it goes in cutscenes and the gameplay isn't the most accurate way to gauge their stats (characters dodging lasers in-game but Jeb getting tagged by a RPG in cutscenes, vampire enemies surviving shots from large anti-tank rifles in game than fying to car in cutscenes, etc.). If we go back to the main subject Church and Jorge shown to be comparable to Sanford and Deimos (or at least isn't very inferior) yet Gestalt redsmeared them with a simple handcrush even if they had protective G03LM armors, meaning they aren't comparable in any way.

 

[Comiphorous]

Again, what your stating isn't confirmed. Sure, Gestalt got stronger the more he takes more S-3LF, but there is no confirmatipn that his strength wasn't already amplified since MNC. In addition to that his durability has shown to be much greater, protagonists never trying to fight with him, Nexus Core's technology being visibly greater compared to them in MNC chapter 1.5 (and there being 30 year difference between MNC ch.15 and MN story mode) there being not any lifting strength feat close to this in game or animation done by an another mag.

What? the burden of proof is on you, you need to prove that Gestalt was strengthed between the two games. That shouldn't just be assumed. you need proof, Nexus Core's technology being better since the first game isn't proof they specifically made Gestalt's base strength better.

His durability doesn't matter for his other physical stats. they don't scale between each other. his durability stays the same throughout MPN2 for his first encounter to his last one.

Hmmmmm... maybe Sanford and Deimos didn't actually took down mags and G03LMs with seher strength canonically? At the end of the Day their fight between mags and G03LMs doesn't shown hoe it goes in cutscenes and the gameplay isn't the most accurate way to gauge their stats (characters dodging lasers in-game but Jeb getting tagged by a RPG in cutscenes, vampire enemies surviving shots from large anti-tank rifles in game than fying to car in cutscenes, etc.). If we go back to the main subject Church and Jorge shown to be comparable to Sanford and Deimos (or at least isn't very inferior) yet Gestalt redsmeared them with a simple handcrush even if they had protective G03LM armors, meaning they aren't comparable in any way.

Gameplay is 100% fine to use, Sanford and Deimos being comparable to Church and Jorge doesn't put any holes in Gestalt's scaling because he redmisted the two at his final encounter, which where he was actually absurdly stronger than the latter.