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Thought this might be a good battle to see so let's get to it
Team Pokemon-
Lunala
Solgaleo
vs
Team Bleach-
Sosuke Aizen
Ichibe
Speed is Equalized
Location- Ultra Beast Space
Team Pokemon votes-
Team Bleach votes-
Inconclusive-
GO!
-
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Lunala and Solgaleo vs Aizen and Ichibe (6-B versions)
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
Thought this might be a good battle to see so let's get to it
Team Pokemon-
Lunala
Solgaleo
vs
Team Bleach-
Sosuke Aizen
Ichibe
Speed is Equalized
Location- Ultra Beast Space
Team Pokemon votes-
Team Bleach votes-
Inconclusive-
GO!
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Umm Solgaleo and Lunala are High 6-B so they have a big AP advantage....
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- Thread starter
- #3
Wouldnt hax make it more even? I mean its kinda similar to Toneri (High 6-A) vs Ichibe (6-B).Dragonmasterxyz said:
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How would he learn the name of Pokemon who don't say their name?
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Solgaleo's page says that he's immune to status reduction or something like that so Ichibē's ink might not work on him. Meaning Ichibē might get one-shotted if he's not careful. But since Aizen is here, Kyōka Suigetsu might be able to cover for him. Lunala has Mind Manipulation but I don't know how it works. And BFR won't work on Ichibē and Aizen. Since they're in character, Aizen is very unlikely to use Kyōka Suigetsu. I'm not seeing how they can get past Aizen's Regenerationn but Mind Manipulation might do the trick for them.
Their offensive Kidō might not work on the Pokemon team because of their superior AP and they might be able to break out of their binding Kidō for the same reason too. Given Aizen's mentality here and Ichibē's ink possibly not working on one of them, I think the Pokemon team might take this. Though I'm not sure and that's if they have something that can put Aizen down.
Their offensive Kidō might not work on the Pokemon team because of their superior AP and they might be able to break out of their binding Kidō for the same reason too. Given Aizen's mentality here and Ichibē's ink possibly not working on one of them, I think the Pokemon team might take this. Though I'm not sure and that's if they have something that can put Aizen down.
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- Thread starter
- #6
Kyoko Suigetsu should have 50/50 chance of working or failing tbh.
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Do they have resistance to Mind Manipulation?
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They are resistant to Psychic type attacks which usually involve Mind Attacks.
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Okay. The chances of the Pokemon team winning are higher now. The only problem is Aizen's Regenerationn. Could he be incapacitated with Mind Manipulation?
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Couldn't Lunala and Solgaleo BFR Aizen?
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Apologies if this is an overly old thread, but on the topic of mind manipulation, let's see what Solgaleo can do.
I don't know the capabilities of the Bleach characters too well, and I'm unsure how attack-category moves may be considered, so I'll start by listing some status moves I feel are notable.
Both Solgaleo and Lunala have, in their level-up movepools, Cosmic Power, and Teleport. Solgaleo has Metal Sound, which may count as durability reduction. I'm unsure. It also has Noble Roar, which has the description: "Letting out a noble roar, the user intimidates the target and lowers its Attack and Sp. Atk stats."
Both of them also have Wide Guard: "The user and its allies are protected from wide-ranging attacks for one turn. If used in succession, its chance of failing rises."
Solgaleo and Lunala can heal through Morning Sun, and Moonlight, respectively.
Solgaleo also has Metal Burst. I'm unsure how we treat it. Mechanically, it's similar to Counter & Mirror Coat, which if the user was hit by a physical or special attack, reflectively, hit back against a move of the proper category for damage equal to 200% of the HP the Counter/Mirror Coat user lost. Through negative priority, they also make the user go last. Metal Burst lacks said negative priority, but works on any kind of attack, only failing if the user is faster than whatever it hits last, and only hits for 150% power.
But that may not be important anyway, so here's Metal Burst's descriptions: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metal_Burst_(move)#Descriptio
Meanwhile, Lunala has, along with Hypnosis, has Confuse Ray ("The target is exposed to a sinister ray that triggers confusion."), Night Shade (Which has had descriptions like "An attack with a mirage that inflicts damage matching the user's level.", "The user makes the foe see a mirage.", and "The user makes the target see a frightening mirage.", those last 2 excluding the damage=level part, but I feel it may be good mind hax.)
It also has:
Night Daze ("The user lets loose a pitch-black shock wave at its target. This may also lower the target's accuracy.") which I'm unsure if it could qualify as accuracy hax.
Magic Coat ("Reflects special effects back to the attacker.", "Reflects back the foe's LEECH SEED and any status-damaging move.", and "A barrier reflects back to the target moves like Leech Seed and moves that damage status.") to maybe reflect some of Aizen and Ichibe's hax?
Dream Eater, although I'm unsure if it could be of much utility, Hypnosis or not, even if it may or may not qualify as mind hax.
And of course, Phantom Force, to possibly dodge attacks and hit through some defensive techniques. "The user vanishes somewhere, then strikes the target on the next turn. This move hits even if the target protects itself.".
I'm uncertain how much help their durability affecting moves could help when Aizen has a strong amount of mind hax, but both are Psychic types, halving damage from Psychic attacks. Solgaleo's Steel type also halves Psychic damage to it again, if we're considering how their types might influence things.
Solgaleo's anti-status reduction is Full Metal Body, an ability literally only Solgaleo has, at least in name; Mechanically, it's identical to Clear Body and White Smoke, 2 other abilities introduced in Gen 3.
Unlike them, however, Full Metal Body doesn't get ignored by Mold Breaker, Teravolt, and Turboblaze, abilities that make their users' moves ignore abilities that could influence the damage or effects of their user's moves. Teravolt and Turboblaze are exclusive to fellow Legendary Pokemon Reshiram and Zekrom, so I find it slightly notable that Solgaleo's own exclusive ability can work against theirs, unlike the abilities of other non-Legendary Pokemon FMB is otherwise identical to.
Likewise, Lunala's own ability, Shadow Shield is similar to Multiscale -which only Dragonite, a "pseudo-Legendary" and another Legendary Pokemon Lugia have anyway.- but is nonetheless an improved version of them via ignoring foes' MB, Teravolt, and Turboblaze. Its flavor text is: "Reduces the amount of damage the Pokémon takes while its HP is full."
Solgaleo and Lunala's own signature moves also have "Mold Breaker" effects built into them: Sunsteel Strike: "The user slams into the target with the force of a meteor. This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities." Moongeist Beam: "The user emits a sinister ray to attack the target. This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.". So maybe it could allow them to hit more effectively through some of Aizen and/or Ichibe's defensive measures?
Incidentally, the official flavor text of Full Metal Body is: "Prevents other Pokémon's moves or Abilities from lowering the Pokémon's stats." although I imagine it's written that way because I doubt there's anything in S/M that's not technically a Pokemon that would battle against Solgaleo.
Ultimately, both Solgaleo and Lunala have a large amount of hax, although I'm unsure of Aizen and Ichibe's capabilities. From what I know of Aizen, though, one of his biggest threats is his powerful mind hax, though, even if his other stats are plenty high. So I'm uncertain how useful a lot of the stats-affecting hax in a battle of mind hax may be. Notably, none of the stats-hax affects boosts Solgaleo or Lunala's own stats, except Cosmic Power (Boosts their own Durability.) although Solgaleo can reduce the AP of its foes'.
All of this course, is going only by level-up movepools.
I hope my post was helpful, not overly wordy, and I'm not bumping a thread too old. Also, shouldn't this thread be in the Pokemon and Pokémon topics? Yes, going by what threads I've seen on the pages for them, those are 2 different topics.
I don't know the capabilities of the Bleach characters too well, and I'm unsure how attack-category moves may be considered, so I'll start by listing some status moves I feel are notable.
Both Solgaleo and Lunala have, in their level-up movepools, Cosmic Power, and Teleport. Solgaleo has Metal Sound, which may count as durability reduction. I'm unsure. It also has Noble Roar, which has the description: "Letting out a noble roar, the user intimidates the target and lowers its Attack and Sp. Atk stats."
Both of them also have Wide Guard: "The user and its allies are protected from wide-ranging attacks for one turn. If used in succession, its chance of failing rises."
Solgaleo and Lunala can heal through Morning Sun, and Moonlight, respectively.
Solgaleo also has Metal Burst. I'm unsure how we treat it. Mechanically, it's similar to Counter & Mirror Coat, which if the user was hit by a physical or special attack, reflectively, hit back against a move of the proper category for damage equal to 200% of the HP the Counter/Mirror Coat user lost. Through negative priority, they also make the user go last. Metal Burst lacks said negative priority, but works on any kind of attack, only failing if the user is faster than whatever it hits last, and only hits for 150% power.
But that may not be important anyway, so here's Metal Burst's descriptions: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metal_Burst_(move)#Descriptio
Meanwhile, Lunala has, along with Hypnosis, has Confuse Ray ("The target is exposed to a sinister ray that triggers confusion."), Night Shade (Which has had descriptions like "An attack with a mirage that inflicts damage matching the user's level.", "The user makes the foe see a mirage.", and "The user makes the target see a frightening mirage.", those last 2 excluding the damage=level part, but I feel it may be good mind hax.)
It also has:
Night Daze ("The user lets loose a pitch-black shock wave at its target. This may also lower the target's accuracy.") which I'm unsure if it could qualify as accuracy hax.
Magic Coat ("Reflects special effects back to the attacker.", "Reflects back the foe's LEECH SEED and any status-damaging move.", and "A barrier reflects back to the target moves like Leech Seed and moves that damage status.") to maybe reflect some of Aizen and Ichibe's hax?
Dream Eater, although I'm unsure if it could be of much utility, Hypnosis or not, even if it may or may not qualify as mind hax.
And of course, Phantom Force, to possibly dodge attacks and hit through some defensive techniques. "The user vanishes somewhere, then strikes the target on the next turn. This move hits even if the target protects itself.".
I'm uncertain how much help their durability affecting moves could help when Aizen has a strong amount of mind hax, but both are Psychic types, halving damage from Psychic attacks. Solgaleo's Steel type also halves Psychic damage to it again, if we're considering how their types might influence things.
Solgaleo's anti-status reduction is Full Metal Body, an ability literally only Solgaleo has, at least in name; Mechanically, it's identical to Clear Body and White Smoke, 2 other abilities introduced in Gen 3.
Unlike them, however, Full Metal Body doesn't get ignored by Mold Breaker, Teravolt, and Turboblaze, abilities that make their users' moves ignore abilities that could influence the damage or effects of their user's moves. Teravolt and Turboblaze are exclusive to fellow Legendary Pokemon Reshiram and Zekrom, so I find it slightly notable that Solgaleo's own exclusive ability can work against theirs, unlike the abilities of other non-Legendary Pokemon FMB is otherwise identical to.
Likewise, Lunala's own ability, Shadow Shield is similar to Multiscale -which only Dragonite, a "pseudo-Legendary" and another Legendary Pokemon Lugia have anyway.- but is nonetheless an improved version of them via ignoring foes' MB, Teravolt, and Turboblaze. Its flavor text is: "Reduces the amount of damage the Pokémon takes while its HP is full."
Solgaleo and Lunala's own signature moves also have "Mold Breaker" effects built into them: Sunsteel Strike: "The user slams into the target with the force of a meteor. This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities." Moongeist Beam: "The user emits a sinister ray to attack the target. This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.". So maybe it could allow them to hit more effectively through some of Aizen and/or Ichibe's defensive measures?
Incidentally, the official flavor text of Full Metal Body is: "Prevents other Pokémon's moves or Abilities from lowering the Pokémon's stats." although I imagine it's written that way because I doubt there's anything in S/M that's not technically a Pokemon that would battle against Solgaleo.
Ultimately, both Solgaleo and Lunala have a large amount of hax, although I'm unsure of Aizen and Ichibe's capabilities. From what I know of Aizen, though, one of his biggest threats is his powerful mind hax, though, even if his other stats are plenty high. So I'm uncertain how useful a lot of the stats-affecting hax in a battle of mind hax may be. Notably, none of the stats-hax affects boosts Solgaleo or Lunala's own stats, except Cosmic Power (Boosts their own Durability.) although Solgaleo can reduce the AP of its foes'.
All of this course, is going only by level-up movepools.
I hope my post was helpful, not overly wordy, and I'm not bumping a thread too old. Also, shouldn't this thread be in the Pokemon and Pokémon topics? Yes, going by what threads I've seen on the pages for them, those are 2 different topics.
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It seems reflecting Ichibē's ink won't work on him but reflecting his Kido might work. I'm curious on how reflecting Kyōka Suigetsu would affect Aizen. Maybe he can use reikaku to get out of it but I'm not sure.
Yes, it was helpful. I think it's only four topics that can be used in a thread.
Yes, it was helpful. I think it's only four topics that can be used in a thread.
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What of the other mindhax? Ex: Hypnosis. "The user employs hypnotic suggestion to make the target fall into a deep sleep." and Night Shade, which seems to be an attack that employs make the target see a frightening mirage, and Confuse Ray's Sinister Ray?
Kyōka Suigetsu, being triggered on sight, would be extremely difficult to avoid with no prior knowledge, but then again, who's to say Aizen might use it on monsters? If he's overconfident, he may mistake Lunala and Solgaleo for mere mindless beasts, and not think it necessary to hypnotize them.
It's also worth noting that Magic Coat doesn't work on attacking category moves. Looking at the Kido, it doesn't seem like it would work on all of the ones involved.
That said, it also seems like Aizen employs a lot of defensive techniques. Given that Lunala can use Phantom Force to vanish somewhere, then strikes, and the attack does so through Protect, Detect, King's Shield, and several other moves designed to block attacks.
Mechanically, it also removes the effects of status-blocking moves on the turn it hit, such as Crafty Shield, which only blocks status moves. Assuming that's not mere mechanics, it would be a problem for him if Aizen's barriers could not only be bypassed, but also torn down.
There's also the matter of Solgaleo's Flash Cannon. "The user gathers all its light energy and releases it all at once." Is the speed of attacks equalized here? Has Flash Cannon been treated as a light speed move before?
Kyōka Suigetsu, being triggered on sight, would be extremely difficult to avoid with no prior knowledge, but then again, who's to say Aizen might use it on monsters? If he's overconfident, he may mistake Lunala and Solgaleo for mere mindless beasts, and not think it necessary to hypnotize them.
It's also worth noting that Magic Coat doesn't work on attacking category moves. Looking at the Kido, it doesn't seem like it would work on all of the ones involved.
That said, it also seems like Aizen employs a lot of defensive techniques. Given that Lunala can use Phantom Force to vanish somewhere, then strikes, and the attack does so through Protect, Detect, King's Shield, and several other moves designed to block attacks.
Mechanically, it also removes the effects of status-blocking moves on the turn it hit, such as Crafty Shield, which only blocks status moves. Assuming that's not mere mechanics, it would be a problem for him if Aizen's barriers could not only be bypassed, but also torn down.
There's also the matter of Solgaleo's Flash Cannon. "The user gathers all its light energy and releases it all at once." Is the speed of attacks equalized here? Has Flash Cannon been treated as a light speed move before?
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- Thread starter
- #14
Just thought, to make it more fair for the Bleach duo, wouldnt Lunala be at a disadvantage in type? Im pretty sure All Soul Reapers, Hollows, etc. in Bleach can easily be classified as the Ghost Type.
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Oh definitely. Both of Lunala's types are weak to Ghost, so spiritual attacks could presumably be quite effective. 4x so, by Pokemon math. For that matter, although Steel resisted Ghost (And Dark) in generations 2 through 5, from Gen 6 onwards, it doesn't, so Solgaleo, being a Steel and Psychic type, would also take extra damage from them.
Lunala does, at least, have Shadow Shield, though, which halves damage taken when it's at full HP. Not to mention, both it and Solgaleo have healing factors. Lunala has Moonlight and Solgaleo has Morning Sun.
That said, the OP specified the battle's location as "Ultra Beast Space" (I assume they mean http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ultra_Space ) so I'm not sure if those healing factors would work there: Is there sun and moon light for Solgaleo and Lunala to heal with there? Then again, if the species has its origins in Ultra Space or such, and the moves are ways they gather such energy, maybe they had such capabilities for their environments in Ultra Space? ....Assuming they ever did so before going to the Pokemon world.
Nonetheless, other than possible healing factors, depending on where the battle takes place, Solgaleo and Lunala can boost their durability with Cosmic Power, use Teleport and Solgaleo does have Metal Burst.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metal_Burst_(move)
"The user retaliates with much greater force against the opponent that last inflicted damage on it."
Other than requiring the user be slower than the user of the attack it's retaliating against (Instead of having negative priority.) and doing 150% of the damage in retaliation instead of 200%, it's fairly similar.
Not sure if the "lower speed required" bit is true -doubtful, since it seems more like a balancing mechanic- but this is a speed equalized match.
And Lunala does have some level of intangibility with Phantom Force.
I also assume we don't apply weaknesses to Pokemon-types when others face Pokemon? Ex: Soul Reapers don't have the weaknesses to moves of types that Ghost-type Pokemon do, right?
Lunala and Solgaleo definitely have some useful hax, IMHO, but their type weakness, and the ease of activating Kyōka Suigetsu puts them at something of a disadvantage.
Lunala does, at least, have Shadow Shield, though, which halves damage taken when it's at full HP. Not to mention, both it and Solgaleo have healing factors. Lunala has Moonlight and Solgaleo has Morning Sun.
That said, the OP specified the battle's location as "Ultra Beast Space" (I assume they mean http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ultra_Space ) so I'm not sure if those healing factors would work there: Is there sun and moon light for Solgaleo and Lunala to heal with there? Then again, if the species has its origins in Ultra Space or such, and the moves are ways they gather such energy, maybe they had such capabilities for their environments in Ultra Space? ....Assuming they ever did so before going to the Pokemon world.
Nonetheless, other than possible healing factors, depending on where the battle takes place, Solgaleo and Lunala can boost their durability with Cosmic Power, use Teleport and Solgaleo does have Metal Burst.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metal_Burst_(move)
"The user retaliates with much greater force against the opponent that last inflicted damage on it."
Other than requiring the user be slower than the user of the attack it's retaliating against (Instead of having negative priority.) and doing 150% of the damage in retaliation instead of 200%, it's fairly similar.
Not sure if the "lower speed required" bit is true -doubtful, since it seems more like a balancing mechanic- but this is a speed equalized match.
And Lunala does have some level of intangibility with Phantom Force.
I also assume we don't apply weaknesses to Pokemon-types when others face Pokemon? Ex: Soul Reapers don't have the weaknesses to moves of types that Ghost-type Pokemon do, right?
Lunala and Solgaleo definitely have some useful hax, IMHO, but their type weakness, and the ease of activating Kyōka Suigetsu puts them at something of a disadvantage.
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