Lovecraft vs Demonbane

[Jockey-1337]

I do not know anything in the original Lovecraft that would be superior to the outer shell of the Clockwork Phantom.

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[Jockey-1337]

Bump.

I didn't read this info before:

"Exists beyond all dimensional boundaries, realities, and even the Ultimate Void inhabited by Yog-Sothoth and the other Outer Gods"

The Mist > Ultimate Void?

So Mist really stomps entire Demonbane-verse (except for Azathoth).

 

[Aurugermil]

Just quoting this wiki itself on Demonbane verse:

"Gods are in the highest domains/the last void/the outer void, beyond time, space, dimensions and causality, but they are still dreams of Azathoth."

Then we have Demonbane Vortex Blaster who already obliterate Azathoth and causality from the Nitro+ Blaster which tied itself with Demonbane continuity and DYN Freaks. Thus Zanma Taisen Demonbane achieved True Infinity on its destructive capability.

Next we have EGD which represents the ideal form of Demonbane and one of the Elder Gods and it can seal Azathoth and "live" outside of Azathoth.

Supposedly in the original mythos, Elder Gods are a being that oppose Outer Gods and make Azathoth into an idiot, therefore EG >BIGA >OG. Hagenaya already shown the feat of EGD to be somewhat comparable with the Elder Gods of the mythos. I don't see how EGD can even lose to Nameless Mist.

 

[Promestein]

I'm pretty sure all things are dreams of Azathoth.

This would include all the gods, Demonbane and all its variations, every possibility in which Azathoth would be destroyed, etc.

 

[Aurugermil]

I'm pretty sure all things are dreams of Azathoth.
This would include all the gods, Demonbane and all its variations, every possibility in which Azathoth would be destroyed, etc.

You are right but True End of first VN stated that EGD has become a being that can exist outside of Azathoth's dream and can't be erased by Azathoth.

Also the story of Nitro+Blaster is about how Yog Sothoth stretched the moment of Azathoth obliteration to infinity to collect some Al Azif shards so Azathoth can be reborn. The ending of Nitro+ Blaster suggest that Azathoth is finally being restored with how all the heroines in it are returning to their worlds. DYN Freaks is about Yog Sothoth trying to awaken the just reborn Azathoth.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Supposedly in the original mythos, Elder Gods are a being that oppose Outer Gods and make Azathoth into an idiot, therefore EG >BIGA >OG.

Where did you read that fan fiction?

"Elder Gods" (as their own beings, not as just a nebulous term used for the Outer Gods or Great Old Ones) didn't even exist until after Lovecraft died. They were added by Derleth, who inserted his own Christian values of universal good and evil into what was before a completely amoral mythos.

Nothing made Azathoth an "idiot". He's called "The Blind Idiot God" because he's always sleeping, for if he woke up, nothing could exist but Azathoth.

Saying "Elder Gods made Azathoth into an idiot" or "Elder Gods sealed Azathoth away" is the equivalent of saying "the character in my dream crawled out of my ear and gave me a lobotomy".

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Pretty sure this is a tie really. Both series have comparable feats.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Pretty sure this is a tie really. Both series have comparable feats.

Not to mention:

High 1-A from one verse vs High 1-A from another verse = tie, as there is no way to judge the outcome.

High 1-A from one verse vs 0 from another verse = tie, as there is no way to judge the outcome.

Guess which both sides happen to haaaaaaaaaaaaave?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yeah, good point.

 

[Aurasuke]

Yeah but High 1-A vs infinite High 1-A from another verse is also a tie debatably. That High 1-A may have a restriction that makes it less than omnipotent but still be greater than all the other High 1-A even though they also have a restriction but to a much greater degree.

You could argue that Featherine is greater than Demonbane because she exists in an infinite degrees of reality higher than normal reality. That means that Omnipotents in normal reality would be fiction to her the same way TOAA is fiction to us and cannot even touch us despite being supposedly 'omnipotent" in fiction. All of reality to the Outer Gods is but an atom, but an atom is still quantifiable object, being above reality meaning treating Omnipotents such as TOAA as fiction means no matter how powerful or omnipotent they are in fiction, they cannot hurt you in real life. If we are to take the literal translation of Featherine's fiction vs reality that's what would happen.

Of course Vs battle doesn't accept that kind of logic but I just wanted to throw that out there to say that as we don't have different rankings of High 1-A (ex High 1-A with 1000 points vs High 1-A with 10 000 points, with higher points being closer to omnipotent), it's pretty much impossible to tell.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

All of reality isn't an atom to the Outer Gods. That would imply it had some kind of physical substance and wasn't literally less than nothing which assholes like Nyarlathotep have avatars mess with for ***** and giggles.

Also, that's the whole point.

It's impossible to determine one High 1-A vs any other number of High 1-As. Both verses in this match already have at least a single High 1-A character, therefore there can be no conclusion other than "impossible to determine".

 

[Aurasuke]

lol less than nothing, a negative quantity.

Either way each fiction has reality defined different. Reality in Cthulu Mythos includes the outer gods and Azathoth as that's the summation of everything that is written there. The reality they are reffering to is the reality of human thought (a bit ironic cause the author was also kind of a human lol so really he could never think of anything higher that he couldn't understand).

BTW apparently in Devil Survivor 2, one of the computer's firewalls has the name Azathoth as it's last defense lol. It was broken through at the end of the episode though so not exactly quite on that level. Just interesting to see how Cthulu Mythos influences even Anime lol

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Either way each fiction has reality defined different. Reality in Cthulu Mythos includes the outer gods and Azathoth as that's the summation of everything that is written there.

Actually, part of the point of the mythos is that "reality" is subjective. What we view as "reality" isn't real to something that far above us, and even the Outer Gods aren't "real" to Azathoth. That's kind of the point. It's all about things you can't understand and things out of your control, which even most higher beings aren't safe from.

Oh, it's influenced its fair share of anime, alright.

 

[Naitez]

This matchup is totally inconclusive. But if I were to choose one series just for the sake of choosing one, I'd choose the Cthulhu Mythos since it doesn't need have to have robots, moe girls, cute boys, and simplified metaphors to appeal. Also, Mythos Nyar is a Dio Brando kind of asshole ****** while Demonbane Nyar is just a plain old ******.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Wow, you don't like "obots, moe girls, cute boys"? lol

lol Dio Brando ******. I'd love to watch him play tag with Homura, it would be pretty funny. Insane Demon vs ******.

Dio may be a bad person, but he's almost so bad that he's not really that great of a character. Most bad characters have a side of them that makes them feel more relatable and 3-D, but Dio just feels like he's out to get you no matter what lol. Not really my type of character, too shallow. But what do I know I've only seen up to the second act, and not even all if it.

 

[Naitez]

That's what makes Dio interesting. He's a ****** in a sense that he does anything he wants to do just because it amuses him. He doesn't care about your suffering and pain and the losses you've faced unless it's personal or it benefits him. Mythos Nyar is kind of like that because with all the power he has, he can do anything he wants and by that, it means the most despicable means possible just because he can. Dio has the ambition and cruelty of a god. Nyar basically is a god.

 

[Aurasuke]

Nah Othinius can torture people way easier than Dio even if she isn't really a ****** lol. In a way Othinius did what Nyar never tried, she was able to create countless worlds and scenarios in order to torture the main character. Sure you could have an omnipotent character, but what use is it if the author himself doesn't think of the best ideas that a true omnipotent character would use.

One I found particularly interesting was having Touma commit suicide in a world overflowing with Happiness. Of course Touma's main character status means he never actually dies lol spoilers.

Anyway that kind of villian that just wants to do everything for himself is like really stereotypical, like everyone from Richard the Third from Shakespeare to like hundres of thousands of other characters.

Maybe the author's poking fun at the idea of gift vs reward, maybe Dio works in his series, but in General villians are pretty boring if they only have one type of personality.

 

[Naitez]

Dio doesn't really try to torture anybody for his own amusement. The things he did like make a zombie filled with snakes, fuse human heads with cats bodies and cats heads with bird bodies, making a woman eat her own baby as a zombie and speaking poetry about it, dropping steamrollers on people, amongst other things are what separates him from others. He doesn't have to do those things, but it sure does keep his interests up. Same with Nyar, who has cults worship him and perform human sacrifice not because he needs it, but because he can.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Same with Nyar, who has cults worship him and perform human sacrifice not because he needs it, but because he can.

Even though he doesn't need to, I suppose leading countless cults into following what's only a tiny shadow/persona of yours and eventually leading them to their own inevitable destruction can be pretty amusing if done right.

 

[Aurugermil]

Where did you read that fan fiction?

Saying "Elder Gods made Azathoth into an idiot" or "Elder Gods seald gave me a lobotomy".

I was mistaken by saying it original works, it is a post-Lovecraft works made by August Derleth in the The Lurker at the Threshold just as you said. It is not fan fiction.

"(T)hose daring to oppose the Elder Gods who ruled from Betelgueze, the Great Old Ones who fought against the Elder Gods...were instructed by Azathoth, who is the blind idiot god, and by Yog-Sothoth...

In another passage, Derleth quotes a prophecy:

Ye blind idiot, ye noxious Azathoth shal arise from ye middle of ye World where all is Chaos & Destruction where He hath bubbl'd and blasphem'd at Ye centre which is of All Things, which is to say Infinity....

The Elder Gods punished Azathoth by rendering him mindless and blind, according to Derleth."

Also regarding the matter of dreaming things can make you undergo lobotomy. It can happen in real life too if you ever bothered to dabble into tulpa and actual black magick.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Derleth's work is vastly different from the original things Lovecraft wrote, which as I said, was heavily influenced by his own religious beliefs. He believed the Outer Gods to be "evil", which is something heavily, heavily contradicted in the source material and more of him projecting his own perception into later stories.

Many things from Derleth's work are also told as second hand accounts and not say...something like Randolph Carter being chased by an actual avatar of Nyarlathotep and saved by Nodens. I put a lot more faith in things like that than later additions by Derleth, though I do respect him for what he did in compiling the works as a whole.

I have read up on tulpa, which while certainly something I take interest in, is not tested science and more a spiritual idea. I have never heard of any cases of someone's imagination becoming real and lobotomizing them.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ So it isn't made the the original author lol.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

^ So it isn't made the the original author lol.

While Derleth was a good friend of Lovecraft in life (despite their vastly differing philosophical views), 99% of his contribution to the mythos came after Lovecraft's death, and most of it was staggeringly different from Lovecraft's original views (i.e. Derleth assumed Yog to be "evil" due to being an Outer God, whereas Lovecraft pretty much described him as the sum total of everything who was every religion's perception of "God" from differing, faulty perspectives).

 

[Jockey-1337]

Mythos win

 

[Aurasuke]

^ The guy who doesn't ever read any of the posts

 

[Jockey-1337]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Nameless_Mist

"Exists beyond all dimensional boundaries, realities, and even the Ultimate Void inhabited by Yog-Sothoth and the other Outer Gods"

Mythos stomp. The Mist solos.

 

[Jockey-1337]

Also, Mythos have infinite amount of 1-As, whereas Demonbane Universa have finite amount of them.

 

[Jockey-1337]

Yeah but High 1-A vs infinite High 1-A from another verse is also a tie debatably. That High 1-A may have a restriction that makes it less than omnipotent but still be greater than all the other High 1-A even though they also have a restriction but to a much greater degree.
You could argue that Featherine is greater than Demonbane because she exists in an infinite degrees of reality higher than normal reality. That means that Omnipotents in normal reality would be fiction to her the same way TOAA is fiction to us and cannot even touch us despite being supposedly 'omnipotent" in fiction. All of reality to the Outer Gods is but an atom, but an atom is still quantifiable object, being above reality meaning treating Omnipotents such as TOAA as fiction means no matter how powerful or omnipotent they are in fiction, they cannot hurt you in real life. If we are to take the literal translation of Featherine's fiction vs reality that's what would happen.

Of course Vs battle doesn't accept that kind of logic but I just wanted to throw that out there to say that as we don't have different rankings of High 1-A (ex High 1-A with 1000 points vs High 1-A with 10 000 points, with higher points being closer to omnipotent), it's pretty much impossible to tell.

By your logic 1 EGD vs 3 EGDs vs 10 EGDs is a fair battle lol.

 

[Antvasima]

On request from DarkLK, I will close this thread. It is nearly impossible to properly compare lots of 1-A and High 1-A characters from different franchises with each other, no matter how many of them rhere are, so I also think that it is pointless.