LoTR high tiers downgrade.

[Jucaslucas]

So, I was reading the profiles of the LoTR high tiers and noticed that the Valar are listed as 2c, Airen is 4c and Tilion is 5c.

I guess this is because they created the universe and stuff, but I don't think the LoTR verse is as big as ours. Like, Earth was flat in the first age, the sun and moon flew in circles around earth, so they were certainly way smaller than Earth. It should be something like this:




I'm not an expert, but, from what I know about flat Earth conpiracy theories, the other stars whould be orbiting Earth too.

And, if I remember correctly, the descriptions of the battles when they were at full power only show the Valar destroying mountains and pulverizing oceans, which is impressive, but the colateral damage whould be higher if they were really 2c.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Yamatohime]

Stop, in other words LoTR Universe is even smaller than TES Universe? Because if it's like you described... It should be around Solar System large at max...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Didn't Tolkien change this as science progressed? Arda was later changed to be the name of the entire system the Earth dwelled in, and Earth was made round and in proper scale to the sun and moon as opposed to flat.

Also, the Valar pulverizing oceans and such is for their physical manifestations, who are already listed much lower than Low 2-C.

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Arien and Tillion are literally the embodiements of the Sun and Moon which is why they're 4-C and 5-C respectively. The battles of the Valar on Arda were never at full power because the power of the Ainur was restricted as soon as they entered Arda. They also weren't really described in a lot of detail but anyway there is a calc putting restricted Morgoth at Continent level which should also scale to Tulkas at least: [1]

He's also listed as 5-C from fighting Tillion which Tulkas is scaled too as well.

 

[Coleworld12]

Slayers top tiers go at it and they don't even destroy the surroundings iirc and they're still 2C.It just depends how they use the power and where it's directed

 

[Jucaslucas]

Their physical manifestations should be around low planet level, and if the uverse is that small, then their non corporeal forms have no feats to be that much stronger, right?

The Earth only turned flat in the middle of the second age, when Valinor was separated of the normal universe. And I don't remember anything about Arda being a solar system, I don't even think they talk about other planets.

Airen and Tilion aren't the same sun and moon as ours, they circle the Earth, so they can't be that much bigger than the ones in the picture. I guess the moon can be on the same size, but the sun is extremely smaller.

I agree for Valar being Moon level, but universal seems to much.

 

[Yamatohime]

Slayers top tiers go at it and they don't even destroy the surroundings iirc and they're still 2C.It just depends how they use the power and where it's directed

Destruction Feats of gods on mortal planes are not good after all. Look at Hou Yi from myths who can oneshot suns but couldn't make a dent in his wife latter. After all, those gods should be able to control their power output.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Earth only turned flat in the middle of the second age, when Valinor was separated of the normal universe. And I don't remember anything about Arda being a solar system, I don't even think they talk about other planets.

Part of "The History of Middle-Earth", IIRC.

 

[Coleworld12]

Destruction Feats of gods on mortal planes are not good after all. Look at Hou Yi from myths who can oneshot suns but couldn't make a dent in his wife latter. After all, those gods should be able to control their power output.

This

 

[Jucaslucas]

Isn't HoME non-canon?

 

[Jucaslucas]

I don't remember any better dc feats for them. Do you?

 

[Yamatohime]

Isn't HoME non-canon?

Probably based on who wrote it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Isn't HoME non-canon?

I don't recall it being non-canon. I remember it was compiled by Tolkien's son, but much of it from works when he was alive, and is thus considered canon.

 

[Jucaslucas]

I didn't really HoME yet, but I heard that there are some inconsistenses with Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. Do you have the exact quote?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Lemme try and grab it. I'm going to be out for a bit, but as soon as I'm back, I'll try and get the quote.

 

[Jucaslucas]

Nice.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

(Finally) back. Going to try and find the exact quote, now. Thank you for being patient.

 

[Jucaslucas]

I totally forgot about this...

I still think we should downgrade Airen, at least. The sun she carries around is nowhere near the size of regular stars.