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Large FF8 Revisions

Blackcurrant91

Blackcurrant91

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I have colated some changes I would like to make for our FF8 profiles into this word doc here for people who prefer it (There is a fairly large amount of changes)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cZDu78q0jpjVUALobLPz8a0xM6vxFgW6U8ti-aaw8-k/edit?usp=sharing

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Blackcurrant91/Sandbox (Sandbox showing what the changes to the profiles would look like)

These changes will probably be slightly controvertial but I believe they are accurate.

Ultimecia additions:


  • Ultimecia should be Low 2-C in all of her keys due to containing the raw power to initiate Time Compression. She didn't need Adel's power to initiate time-compression as indicated on her profile. She required her consciousness to exist as far in the past as possible and the present era of Squalls time isn't far enough back. (Edea at the end of the game, which is chronologically the start of the time loop gains Ultimecia's powers anyway). If all Ultimecia needed was Adel's power she would have initiated time-compression immediately upon possessing her but she orders Seifer to capture Rinoa so she can junction them together and even then she still needs to be sent a further 17 years into the past by Ellone into young Adel (Edea has more Sorcerer power anyway) *I can go into more detail here if people need me to

    • Regenerationn (Possibly low-godly at least Mid-High) after the party defeats her Griever empowered form she starts to seemingly disintegrates/disappears but has regenerated upon transforming. 25:34 (Need this one clarified for me)
    • Space-time Manipulation (Is able to absorb/warp an entire timeline)
    • Absorption (Her scan in final form indicates 'She is absorbing all of existence as we speak')
    • Existence Erasure (Via Absorption, the Japenese translation of her dialogue in final form says 'Your very existences shall be absorbed by the algorithm of time compression!! You will feel agony as your thoughts are ripped apart and all your memories fade away to nothing.' Source)
    • Resurrection Negation (Upon killing the party member she absorbs them into time preventing their allies from resurrecting them/their own abilities)
    • Acausality type 2 (Would seemingly be unaffected by absorbing her own past/future and existing outside of her own timeline)
    • Creation (It is heavily implied that she would be able to remake the universe to her liking once she was able to complete time-compression)
    • Corruption (Scan for Tiamat states 'Used to be a GF. Became a monster under Ultimecia's power. It's Dark Flare destroys all enemies.')
    • Minor Reactive Evolution (Via Draw/Junctioning she can increase her defense and resistances based on what abilities her opponent uses)
    • Paralysis Inducement (Paralyses all targets within an area 4:30)
    • Empathic Manipulation (According to the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania guide, Ultimecia casts a fascination spell that drives the crowd into a frenzy of reverence)
    • Self Sustenance (can fight the party in space)
    • Power Nullification (Via Dispel/Silence/Curse), (Only in her Griever Junctioned/Final form. Can 'Blow away' magic/spells accessible to her opponent 4:57)
    • Statistics Amplification/Reactive Power Level (Via Junctioning. She was able to use this to great effect in combination with her creation using an idea in Squalls mind to create Griever. After Junctioning Griever to herself she gained a massive boost in power. She can create multiple 'Helix' which will boost her power gradually over time the more she creates)
    • Sealing (Junctioning can seal someone within her body/The party upon entering her castle have all of their summons/abilities drawn out and sealed into her various guardians)
    • Danmaku (Via Sorcerers Heart)
    • NPI (Scaling from the cast)
    • Portal Creation/Time Travel (Via Time-compression. The ability creates an assortment of portals to various era's of the time-line)
    • Should have all the spells/the main cast has and thus resistances via junctioning. Curse Manipulation/Resistance, Power Nullification resistance (can resist silence/curse which prevents the target from casting spells/limit breaks), Sleep manipulation/Resistance, Death manipulation/Resistance, Berserk Inducement/Resistance, Petrification/Resistance, Poison manipulation Resistance, Sense manipulation resistance (Has resistance to a spell that reduces her accuracy), Necromancy and transmutation/Resistance (Can cast/resist a spell that forces her target into a zombie), Statistics reduction/Resistance (Can cast/resist a spell that reduces the targets defence stat to zero)


Squall/Cast additions:

  • Scaling to Ultimecia changes (Low 2-C keys for Squall and cast, scaling to base Ultimecia as they already scaled to roughly her base was also really hoping to give squall a Disc 1-2, Disc 3, and Disc 4 keys. (High 6-A, 4-A and Low 2-C respectively) Only applies to Disc 4, not Disc 3 and by extension not Seifer or Gilgamesh

    • Acausality type 2 (Unaffected by their past/present being absorbed)
    • Resistances to Ultimecia's new abilities: EE, Absorption
    • Damage Boost/Explosion Manipulation (Via Gunblade trigger/Limit Breaks)
    • Darkness Manipulation/Sense Manipulation (The spell Darkness creates a cloud of dark material in front of his opponents eyes minimising their sight)
    • Life Stealing (Via Drain or Junctioning it to his physical strikes)
    • Limited Sealing (Via Junctioning. Can Draw out and Seal enemy summons, gaining their power for himself)
    • Damage reduction/Forcefield creation (Via spells like Shell, Protect)
    • Limited Dimensional Travel/Pocket reality creation (various summons create/draw opponents into a pocket dimension and then back again)
    • Minor Reactive Evolution (can change resistances and characteristics based on what abilities his opponent uses)
    • Self sustenance (Seemingly able to fight Ultimecia in space in her final form)
    • Self Destruction (Via Kamikaze)
    • Statistics Amp (Via Darkside: expends 10 percent HP to triple AP of next strike)
    • Resistance to Earth Manipulation
    • Limited Damage Transfer (Can transfer damage to GF's while they are in the process of being summoned)
    • Regenerationn (Low)
    • Weaknesses: Gaining resistance to something means that it can't be used to add to their attacks or as a spell.
There are a few more changes/updates on the sheet that are very minor and more just updating the rest of the ff8 profiles to the standard of Squall Leonhart Irvine Kinneas and co.
 
As we were discussing it on Discord alongside Everlasting, this all looks good to me.
 
Yeah this is fine to me as well. Acausality for the cast miiiight be better listed as Type 4, but Type 2 isnt incorrect either. Existence Erasure is just outright fine with me though. No possibly, seems clearcut.
 
To sort of narrow this discussion further and to avoid this from derailing into (I agree fra), I think i should clarify on Acausality.


While Type 2 Acausality is technically fine, it implies the user is in the present based on what we have written; never in past or future. But Squall + Co explicably cannot get effected only in past and present. Not future. Hell technically they also clearly dont exist in the present two. Type 3 or 4 might be better. Existence Erasure is still fine outright tho lol.
 
Yeah I actually thought type 1 at first and some1 told me to do type 2. I think 3 or 4 might work as well 0.o
 
I told you it was fine in the discord to have Low-Godly outright iirc.

Type 2 'fits' but 4 is better. Just a personal contention. It really isnt a big deal.
 
If they're type 3 Acausals, they'd need alternate versions of themselves to be aware of them to the point that they can replace them should they ever die or something along those lines.

Other than that, this seems fine.
 
I also think that this seems fine.
 
No problem.
 
So do we have enough input, we have noted that Everlasting was also one of the people who helped out with this.
 
Probably, yes.
 
Didn't Squall get impaled by a giant shard of ice and heal from that? I'm pretty sure that would be at least Mid-Low regen.
 
Most FF protags have Mid-Low regen for healing from sword slashes and the like, as far as I know. It feels wierd that Squall would have less than them.
 
Add low Regen Negation for Seifer... or Perhaps Squall thought it looked too cool and just left it there? ovo</<s>

Jokes aside, low-mid is the usual, as they can heal heavy injuries that don't go quite as far as lose body parts or major organ damage. From what I understand, the consensus is that being fatally wounded is indicated by the KO status, given that's pretty much a "near death" state.
 
So is there anything left to do here?
 
Actually there are things I wanted to point out for discussion. During the finale of the game Squall gets trapped inside of a void. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvt7t5CR5_w. Inside of this Void Squall's Memories are being tampered with as well as his ability to think, feel and see yet Squall was still able to maintain conciousness. Could this give Squall resistance to Memory Manipulation, Perception Manipulation and Void Manipulation.

To go along with this, this Void is stated is stated to be outside of the space-time continuim and is described as a "Temporal Void" meaning that here the concept of time doesn't exist. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Void_(term)#Final_Fantasy_VIII this is probably unlikely but could this land Squall possibly Infinite. Rinoa was able to locate and travel to this void across a different dimension to bring Squall back to his own Universe which would definetly land her Extrasensory Perception and being able to move inside this void could she get possibly infinite and Dimensional Travel for going to this void...or just one or ...I'm not sure. However The Void Beyond in Final Fantasy XIII-2, has a similar description to this void and this is used to by this wiki's standards to qualify characters for Infinite speed, but I'll wait for other experts' input. Though since All of Space and Time have been absorbed into Ultimecia the party is left fighting her inside of what appears to be a void like realm for the final battle. Combine that with the link for this alternate void existing outside of the Space-Time Continuim, I think there is a case for Infinite for the cast.
 
This does look interesting; resistance to memory manipulation and void manipulation seems fine to me, but unsure about Perception manipulation. Extrasensory Perception would be legit for sure, but Infinite speed is also the one that seems most iffy. However, I'll ask Everlasting about it.
 
Outside the Continuum should be Immeasurable actually since it is beyond Space and Time.

But I dont think it is enough. I need more evidence.

I will call it neutral tho.

Fine with Extrasensory Perception.
 
Please see here: Timeless Voids Standards

We generally only tend to assign infinite speed to characters that can move anywhere instantly, and immeasurable speed to those that can move through time via movement alone.
 
Just to point out, Everlasting also disagrees with Infinite/Immeasurable speed.
 
What did Everlasting have to say in regards to everything else as far as Resistances and Haxes with Squall getting resistance to Memory, Perception and Void Manipulation and Rinoa getting Extrasensory Perception and Dimensional Travel?
 
He didn't say much else, but I think Extrasensory Perception was generally agreed, so that's fine at least.

Edit: he said the rest of the abilities are fine, just not the speed.
 
Okay. The other abilities can probably be applied then, but the speed increases have been rejected.
 
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