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Sonoko is in her Mankai (YuYuYu) key and Korra is in her Cosmic key. Speed is equalized and sba.
Sonoko's profile
Korra's profile
Sonoko's profile
Korra's profile
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Korra vs Sonoko Nogi: Battle for 7th Strongest 5-C Non-smurf
- Thread starter BrackishBrineBroth
- Start date
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- #2
I thought this might be an interesting match because I feel that Korra has a chance to beat Sonoko and by extension take the place of the Yuna Yuki characters, since all of them pretty much have the same powerset. If Korra is unable to do so, I’ll switch it up with a few more avatar characters who might be able to beat Sonoko. I’m not familiar with Yuki Yuna and am just going by what’s on their profiles so forgive me if I get some things wrong.
The first potential wincon that the avatar has is spiritbending. The YY girl’s profiles state that they can come back from having their souls removed from their bodies, but can they come back from having their souls essentially destroyed? Spiritbending can affect multiple targets at once, so Sonoko’s fairy would also be targeted at the same time. Also, the YY wiki straight-up calls the faeries spirits. @GoldenScorpions has informed me that spiritbending likely wouldn’t work because the fairies are an extension of the main god, Shinju, but from what I’ve seen of them, they seem to have their own independent existence and the wiki doesn’t mention them being part of a greater being? Also, Shinju’s profile doesn’t say anything about creating the faeries, it just mentions summoning them.
The other way I thought that Korra could win is via energybending. However, energybending requires physical contact for the power nullification to work. I’ve been told that physically touching the YY girls is impossible, but I haven’t been told why yet. Is it because of a passive forcefield, or is it because of the fairy? Their profiles don’t go into the specifics of why they can’t be touched, it just says "Invulnerability to damage and Immortality (Type 8) through her fairies (As the Fairies are parts of Shinju, who is a Universe Tier God, and they share its characteristics, they prevent Heroes from getting hurt or killed by anything below Universe level, Reliant on Shinju)." So I’d like a bit more info on how this works.
The first potential wincon that the avatar has is spiritbending. The YY girl’s profiles state that they can come back from having their souls removed from their bodies, but can they come back from having their souls essentially destroyed? Spiritbending can affect multiple targets at once, so Sonoko’s fairy would also be targeted at the same time. Also, the YY wiki straight-up calls the faeries spirits. @GoldenScorpions has informed me that spiritbending likely wouldn’t work because the fairies are an extension of the main god, Shinju, but from what I’ve seen of them, they seem to have their own independent existence and the wiki doesn’t mention them being part of a greater being? Also, Shinju’s profile doesn’t say anything about creating the faeries, it just mentions summoning them.
The other way I thought that Korra could win is via energybending. However, energybending requires physical contact for the power nullification to work. I’ve been told that physically touching the YY girls is impossible, but I haven’t been told why yet. Is it because of a passive forcefield, or is it because of the fairy? Their profiles don’t go into the specifics of why they can’t be touched, it just says "Invulnerability to damage and Immortality (Type 8) through her fairies (As the Fairies are parts of Shinju, who is a Universe Tier God, and they share its characteristics, they prevent Heroes from getting hurt or killed by anything below Universe level, Reliant on Shinju)." So I’d like a bit more info on how this works.
GoldenScorpions
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This is interesting, let's see what we got.
"...an update to the Hero System has been scheduled. It will allow the Heroes to employ the fairies that were sealed in the the Old Era. Everything that exists in the world is stored as a conceptual record within the Shinju-sama. These records can be accessed and extracted to manifest their powers in one's own body - this is essentially how fairies were used in the final war of the Old Era. [...] The fairies are [now] to be employed by manifesting their forms outside of the body"
"Each Hero was given a single fairy to begin with to protect them from damage and keep them alive under any circumstances."
The concept of "Everything that exists in the world is stored as a conceptual record within the Shinju-sama" includes the fairies. Which means the fairies are part of Shinju itself, which happened when Shinju was formed from the fusion of gods. When assigning fairies to Heroes, Shinju essentially summons them from within itself, because they were absorbed into it during the fusion and "storage" of "all that exists".
For things that aren't physical (i.e. poison, organ dysfunction, soul-body separation, etc.), the Heroes still cannot die. For those cases, the Fairies keep the Heroes alive through the power of Shinju and purify things like toxins, though this time without the need of forcefields and instead protecting them from the inside.
I hope this answers the questions.
I like that you did research on the topic. When it comes to the fairies, I redirect you to these:
"...an update to the Hero System has been scheduled. It will allow the Heroes to employ the fairies that were sealed in the the Old Era. Everything that exists in the world is stored as a conceptual record within the Shinju-sama. These records can be accessed and extracted to manifest their powers in one's own body - this is essentially how fairies were used in the final war of the Old Era. [...] The fairies are [now] to be employed by manifesting their forms outside of the body"
"Each Hero was given a single fairy to begin with to protect them from damage and keep them alive under any circumstances."
The concept of "Everything that exists in the world is stored as a conceptual record within the Shinju-sama" includes the fairies. Which means the fairies are part of Shinju itself, which happened when Shinju was formed from the fusion of gods. When assigning fairies to Heroes, Shinju essentially summons them from within itself, because they were absorbed into it during the fusion and "storage" of "all that exists".
When it comes physical harm coming towards the Heroes, the fairies protect them by activating an impenetrable forcefield around them. Those forcefields have never been shattered, as the defensive power the fairies use are Shinju's, who is Universe level. So the reason the Heroes cannot be physically harmed/touched is because of the forcefield, the cause of the forcefield are the Fairies, and the source of that power is Shinju.
For things that aren't physical (i.e. poison, organ dysfunction, soul-body separation, etc.), the Heroes still cannot die. For those cases, the Fairies keep the Heroes alive through the power of Shinju and purify things like toxins, though this time without the need of forcefields and instead protecting them from the inside.
I hope this answers the questions.
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Just curious; how did Kenshiro get the spot above the YY girls in the non-smurf list? What was his wincon?
So it's kind of like the stack of souls that make up the avatar, except on a universe level. You need something to affect the whole thing to bring it down. But you say that they are conceptually stored within the Shinju? Does that still apply when the fairies are outside of the god, helping the girls? And if they were somehow were to be destroyed, could they be re-summoned?
GoldenScorpions
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Even when outside Shinju in their physical form, the fairies remain linked to Shinju. You can maybe think of the fairies as Shinju's "limbs", but with minds and personalities of their own. Once all divine and spiritual entities fused into Shinju, which includes the fairies, everything became part of the Shinju itself. So I'd be inclined to answer "yes" to your question.
I'm uncertain on this one, but I believe no. Each fairy is supposedly unique, so if one of them was somehow completely and utterly destroyed, it should be gone for good.
It's hard to say because fairies have never been destroyed in the franchise. In the context of the Year-300 Heroes specifically, the forcefields created by the fairies also protect the fairies themselves, so they've never been shown to be ever harmed, either. Though, to manipulate Sonoko's fairy directly, the fairy's link to Shinju would likely need to be severed and split apart from Shinju.
That's because when I suggested the Year-300 Heroes to be added, I didn't debate them against Kenshiro. Once I saw what abilities all of these martial arts are tied to, I gave up, it's too much.
Master of Hokuto Shinken, Ryuken, Sonkaken, Sokaken, Nanto Seiken, Gento Koken, Kyokujuji Seiken and Seito Gekken, Mastery over Keiraku Hiko, Tōki, Tōki no Aura and Tōshin no Aura
You can check them if you want, they are ridiculous.
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Hm. The article says that the tree's roots increase in durability the closer it is to the core, but what about each individual soul/god that's in the tree? If that's not known, then I honestly think spiritbending could work and affect the Shinju. In the Korra book 2 finale, it's shown that spiritbending works on beings that share the same body and have more then one soul. And in the same episode, it threatened to kill Korra because her astral projection was spiritually linked to her soul, despite her body being in another plane at the time.
GoldenScorpions
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The power and strength of each individual god that makes up Shinju isn't known. But I'm not sure if that's relevant.
On Korra's end, can her spiritbending affect divine beings far above her strength? Also, you say that it works on multi-soul beings, but to what extent? Up to how many souls within a single entity can Korra manage? Shinju is made up of 8 million gods.
Some of the fairies are dangerous to the point of corroding the mind and tainting one's spirit, yet Shinju houses them all inside it no problem, so I'm doubtful that things of that nature and that level can affect it.
In the midst of all this discussion about spiritbending, let's not forget that Korra wouldn't know what might or might not work against Sonoko. You'll have to tell me what Korra does in-character. Sonoko would be in her flying warship, firing off attacks.
On Korra's end, can her spiritbending affect divine beings far above her strength? Also, you say that it works on multi-soul beings, but to what extent? Up to how many souls within a single entity can Korra manage? Shinju is made up of 8 million gods.
Some of the fairies are dangerous to the point of corroding the mind and tainting one's spirit, yet Shinju houses them all inside it no problem, so I'm doubtful that things of that nature and that level can affect it.
In the midst of all this discussion about spiritbending, let's not forget that Korra wouldn't know what might or might not work against Sonoko. You'll have to tell me what Korra does in-character. Sonoko would be in her flying warship, firing off attacks.
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Her first act against an aerial opponent would likely be using her firebending to rocket up to Sonoko's ship. She'll probably try using regular bending moves first before realizing they're ineffective, and that Sonoko is being protected by a spirit-like creature. I chose cosmic Korra for this fight cause her body is a physical projection that would only get knocked around by Sonoko's attacks, with Korra's real body being in the spirit world.
Regarding on whether the technique works on divine beings, Korra had to connect to her celestial self in order to form her cosmic form so that she could defeat Vaatu, who is the spirit of chaos and darkness and who's presence has an influence on the amount of chaos that's in the world. Vaatu also has the power to poison souls, so that's something that Korra is familiar with. It is a durability-ignoring attack, so they physical strength of the Shinju would be irrelevant. The one thing I'm unsure of is the limit of how many entities she can affect at the same time: she destroyed two people across the franchise that had two souls in them, and took out eight spirits individually.
Regarding on whether the technique works on divine beings, Korra had to connect to her celestial self in order to form her cosmic form so that she could defeat Vaatu, who is the spirit of chaos and darkness and who's presence has an influence on the amount of chaos that's in the world. Vaatu also has the power to poison souls, so that's something that Korra is familiar with. It is a durability-ignoring attack, so they physical strength of the Shinju would be irrelevant. The one thing I'm unsure of is the limit of how many entities she can affect at the same time: she destroyed two people across the franchise that had two souls in them, and took out eight spirits individually.
GoldenScorpions
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The difficulty I see and what im unsure about is how much damage Korra would deal to Shinju by harming Sonoko's fairies.
Because, bypassing durability is one thing, but affect a being who's multiple tiers above your own is another.
Assuming Korra can spiritually harm the fairies, Shinju's own 8 million-strong soul/spirit would be 3-A, like itself.
Because, bypassing durability is one thing, but affect a being who's multiple tiers above your own is another.
Assuming Korra can spiritually harm the fairies, Shinju's own 8 million-strong soul/spirit would be 3-A, like itself.
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I get what you're saying. At one point in the series, this guy in base (so 8-B) was using spiritbending on Korra and threatened to destroy her soul. The soul of the avatar contains/is fused with this being. Unalaq is knocked aside by another character who saves Korra, but the narrative treats it like he would have succeeded if the technique wasn't stopped.
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Bump.
GoldenScorpions
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Sorry, I am on holidays so I've been busy.
While I'm not opposed to the idea of Shinju potentially being affected by spiritbending, I think for the purpose of the debate and the big list, a clear showcase of such a feat would be preferable over a "would have possibly worked". Because the situation here is a lot less straightforward.
Korra's opponent is Sonoko, not Shinju. Yet, Sonoko is protected by this universal-tier megafusion of millions of gods that's not even directly present in the fight, but is connected to her via the 21 Fairies she has that Shinju summoned from within itself. It's an interesting, but complicated matchup.
Perhaps at this stage, bringing other opinions would be for the best, to see what others think.
While I'm not opposed to the idea of Shinju potentially being affected by spiritbending, I think for the purpose of the debate and the big list, a clear showcase of such a feat would be preferable over a "would have possibly worked". Because the situation here is a lot less straightforward.
Korra's opponent is Sonoko, not Shinju. Yet, Sonoko is protected by this universal-tier megafusion of millions of gods that's not even directly present in the fight, but is connected to her via the 21 Fairies she has that Shinju summoned from within itself. It's an interesting, but complicated matchup.
Perhaps at this stage, bringing other opinions would be for the best, to see what others think.
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Well, I was going to potentially use La-Fused Aang as an opponent for Sonoko, but his bfr requires him to drag his opponent underwater for it to work, which won't happen if she has a passive shield.
I do have to ask though; has the fairie's passive shields around the heros' deflected intangible targets before?
I do have to ask though; has the fairie's passive shields around the heros' deflected intangible targets before?
GoldenScorpions
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I think it depends on the intangibility. When it comes to elements, yes, the Fairies block elemental stuff. Not sure about other types.
For example, as long as it's not a physical sonic attack, things like deafening noises bypass the barriers and the Heroes will be in pain, though they won't die from it. The barriers can block energy attacks, so blocking characters made of energy should be possible. The barriers in YuYuShou (which were nerfed compared to YuYuYu, Sonoko's key for this match) withstood black hole-level gravity, which is kind of close to intangibility.
Things like ghosts or characters who can change their density are never fought in the series, so that's unknown, for example.
For example, as long as it's not a physical sonic attack, things like deafening noises bypass the barriers and the Heroes will be in pain, though they won't die from it. The barriers can block energy attacks, so blocking characters made of energy should be possible. The barriers in YuYuShou (which were nerfed compared to YuYuYu, Sonoko's key for this match) withstood black hole-level gravity, which is kind of close to intangibility.
Things like ghosts or characters who can change their density are never fought in the series, so that's unknown, for example.
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Well, both the aforementioned Raava as well as Vaatu can turn their bodies intangible to pass through solid objects, in a manner more similar to ghosts then elemental beings. They can also fuse themselves into a host's body to either grant them power or deform them. If they stay in the host's body for too long, the host will die. This likely won't happen to Sonoko, as she will be brought back by her faeries, but going by the profiles, the faeries have no way to remove the spirits from Sonoko's body? Which means that she will be trapped in a painful state of near-death.
Also, going back to Korra herself and spiritbending, I just remembered that Korra once went up against a dark spirit while she was in her avatar state (her 5-C key) and it managed to knock her out of the state and injure her. Unalaq saved her by spiritbending the dark spirit in his base key. The Avatar novels, which take place in the distant past, also feature fights between a specific avatar and dark spirits, and the avatar always had to activate the avatar state to kill the dark spirits (this was before the spiritbending technique was learned).
Also, going back to Korra herself and spiritbending, I just remembered that Korra once went up against a dark spirit while she was in her avatar state (her 5-C key) and it managed to knock her out of the state and injure her. Unalaq saved her by spiritbending the dark spirit in his base key. The Avatar novels, which take place in the distant past, also feature fights between a specific avatar and dark spirits, and the avatar always had to activate the avatar state to kill the dark spirits (this was before the spiritbending technique was learned).
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GoldenScorpions
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Shinju, and by extension the fairies, can purify the bodies of Heroes from things affecting them from the inside. It's a similar process to how they can purify toxins from within them. The downside is that it takes some time, and likely not fast enough to fully purify it within a fight.
The Hero system used in Year-300 was altered from the Year-0 one specifically to avoid danger regarding possession and corruption from spirits and fairies.
With the way the clip shows the intangibility, I'm not convinced the Fairies couldn't block that. Fairies can protect from things that cannot be conventionally interacted with, and ghost-like beings do exist in the Yushaverse, just never fought against because there's no reason to. At the end of season 2, the spirits of dead heroes and priestesses help the alive heroes by physically interacting with Shinju.
For the last point, Fairies aren't dark spirits, or dark in any way. Spiritbending on Korra's profile mentions it pacifies dark spirits, but Fairies aren't that. Not sure it would work that way.
The Hero system used in Year-300 was altered from the Year-0 one specifically to avoid danger regarding possession and corruption from spirits and fairies.
With the way the clip shows the intangibility, I'm not convinced the Fairies couldn't block that. Fairies can protect from things that cannot be conventionally interacted with, and ghost-like beings do exist in the Yushaverse, just never fought against because there's no reason to. At the end of season 2, the spirits of dead heroes and priestesses help the alive heroes by physically interacting with Shinju.
For the last point, Fairies aren't dark spirits, or dark in any way. Spiritbending on Korra's profile mentions it pacifies dark spirits, but Fairies aren't that. Not sure it would work that way.
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Korra has used it to kill someone who isn't a dark spirit.
Also, apologies if you're getting tired of this thread.
Also, apologies if you're getting tired of this thread.
GoldenScorpions
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No worries, it's all good.
It's just that, at this point, I feel we need some other opinions on this match-up; having a third eye would help. Things are a bit tricky, and I'm not sure anymore how it progresses.
Do you have a clip of Korra using spiritbending (or Aang)?
It's just that, at this point, I feel we need some other opinions on this match-up; having a third eye would help. Things are a bit tricky, and I'm not sure anymore how it progresses.
Do you have a clip of Korra using spiritbending (or Aang)?
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Apologies, I've kind of lost interest in this thread. Though I was wondering if you were okay if Cosmic Korra could share the position with the Washio Sumi characters in the non-smurf list? It looks like neither one can defeat the other.
GoldenScorpions
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No worries. I couldn't bring people over either.
I'm fine with them sharing the spot.
Can I leave you to suggest it on the thread?
Probably something like
Characters from Yuki Yuna is a Hero / Characters from Avatar: The Last Airbander
?
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Oh, I hadn't realized the rest of 5-c had been filled out. Guess I'll have to make more matches to determine if they can even reach Yuki Yuna 's spot.
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