Koji Komatsu VS The Lizard Wizard — Battle for Strongest Low 7-B

[Phoenks]

Koji Komatsu VS The Lizard Wizard

Theme of the Battle:



Versions Used: Athanatos Sign Koji and base Lizard Wizard

Conditions: Speed is equalized and SBA is assumed.

Votes:

• Koji Komatsu: -
• The Lizard Wizard: -
• Inconclusive: -

 

[Phoenks]

Okay, so right off the bat, Koji gets a huge boost to all of his statistics:

• 135% speed for being in unfamiliar territory (New York City)
• x3 boost to all stats the moment he holds a sword.
• 50% boost to all stats from Dragon ranking in the species hierarchy.
• 25% boost to all stats from Dragon physiology because Koji is arrogant.

All of these are stacked on top of each other, rather than being linearly added together.

So off the bat Koji would have a 13.21875x (1 x 2.35 x 3 x 1.5 x 1.25) speed advantage and his AP would go from 1.34 Megatons to 7.5375 Megatons.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Where do these boosts come from they seem random

 

[Phoenks]

Where do these boosts come from they seem random

World mechanics.

 

[DMUA]

7.5375 Megatons.

This is City level. I think that may be counterproductive to determining a Low 7-B placement.

50% boost to all stats from Dragon ranking in the species hierarchy.

That said, I may disagree with this particular one? As I mentioned on discord trying to classify a Trigger as a species is deliberately extremely strange- they exist on any given plane (or Layer, in universe) and thus intersect with Humans, Demons, creatures lying in spaces between dimensions and are emissaries of other beings lying in the Energy Layer, but they don't really follow any single set of rules, most prominently of Biology (thus letting them shrug off whatever doesn't hit every layer and generally being fine with stuff like being reduced to a skeleton and healing from that overtime)

Either way, the Lizard Wizard certainly isn't hurting for being high end on the scale, considering he fought The Wife Beaters after their fight at Din, where they escalated in power significantly from 3.945949998273842 Megatons.

I also don't really get speed equal here, unequal are the primary conditions for the strongest thread and it's basically dead even when accounting for all stuff

Either way, in terms of things beyond AP and the last gateway to the fun, the opening hax;

His main thing is cutting and affecting souls, which in Ark are Type 1 Concept, Type 2 Information, and all mental related aspects, which exists in a separate plane of reality.

The Lizard Wizard resists all of this, since Gashes inherently destroy everything up to the conceptual and something like Sequence Deviation is something he could handle just fine

His astral (soul) weapons can also imbue his mana into people (Soul alike), which he can use to make people spontaneously explode by turning them into a metaphysical bomb (Like Killer Queen from Jojo), he can also corrupt them into husks.

Basically everyone in the Homewreckers can resist Warrane Ambre invoking the same on them (though they often get overwhelmed just because the guy can jack up the power so easily by the mechanics of his abilities, but we do see Blur pull it off against the baseline, which is someone exploding all the same)

Corruption's a little nebulous, but stuff like Penelope's property inducement and all manner of physical warping are something Triggers can live through, and the Lizard Wizard can heal at extreme speeds to a Low Godly extent for both of these

He can also manipulate causality in order to attack someone as if they never developed all of their skills across history. For example, he can hit someone as if they have the stats from when they were a baby, ignoring pretty much everything about them.

Admittedly I never properly slotted this onto the page and I'd have to dig it up to properly have the scan at the ready in Imgur, but we have seen Triggers can "right" their personal timelines against a Random Event that ended up invoking different eras of time onto whoever it hit, and given Xander was both a lot weaker and didn't have Power Defense, the Lizard Wizard could probably just bar it from happening in the first place

Now for the actual fun bit. Lizard Wizard and Koji are barred from actually getting off one-shots for a lot of reasons, so...

The actual fight part of this battle​

The Lizard Wizard just has a very high range of options, and he's bound to whip out whatever he thinks is useful. And considering tier restrictions only really bar him from (or at least, I think, I may be confused about the exact rules here) using the Tungsten Colossus, the Gash Basilisk and maybe the Chimera, that's a lot of painful stuff to throw out. The thing that made him really dangerous is just action economy, he can pull out creatures very easily and amass a horde as he uses his own body to attack an enemy alongside them.

Something I didn't mention in terms of "he's a hax wall so good luck not instantly dying" for getting him into the Low 7-B placement is the fact he's a Bleed Elementite. What this means is that almost every ability he has specializes in ensangunating targets- it's not much, until you realize this is something that works on Triggers, and despite their innate regeneration, and also degraded at their Energy supplies. Heck, Xander having Rapid Regen and equating to the Lizard Wizard didn't stop him from having issues with recovering, and he basically had to totally circumvent it with Elena's Time Capsule (item that lets him revert temporally to heal all kinds of damage).

Considering Triggers also have extreme stamina on top of that, even the endurance of Koji might have a timer get placed on it every time he gets a move like that off. And considering he's unpredictable/skilled enough to land shots on Xander Phoenix despite his own capabilities with precognition through analyzing numbers, those hits are liable to land as well.

So I guess, beyond the sheer versatility, big move after big move firing off, the main thing here comes down to who actually lasts. The Lizard Wizard's resilience against regeneration negation (and Koji's lack of it, as far as I can discern) alongside just healing really fast and having the stamina to back that up when it wears down, and Polywanagonaland serving as a Phase 2 where even Triggers can't really directly hurt him (and he actively gains Energy from the blood of opponents, and he gains access to Loyalty where he can just teleport a swarm of Gash ants into enemies to inflict a bleed that negates Mid Godly)...

 

[Phoenks]

This is City level. I think that may be counterproductive to determining a Low 7-B placement.

Amps that increase the base tier beyond that point are allowed in threads like these, even on main site.

That said, I may disagree with this particular one? As I mentioned on discord trying to classify a Trigger as a species is deliberately extremely strange- they exist on any given plane (or Layer, in universe) and thus intersect with Humans, Demons, creatures lying in spaces between dimensions and are emissaries of other beings lying in the Energy Layer, but they don't really follow any single set of rules, most prominently of Biology (thus letting them shrug off whatever doesn't hit every layer and generally being fine with stuff like being reduced to a skeleton and healing from that overtime)

Thing is everyone in Ark kinda inherently exists on levels like this so they aren't really unique in that regard. They'd be like normal humans.

I don't really think that 50% matters much though.

I also don't really get speed equal here, unequal are the primary conditions for the strongest thread and it's basically dead even when accounting for all stuff

Speed is always equalized in strongest threads though. With the only caveat being that someone can tie a placement if they only beat someone through speed.

The Lizard Wizard resists all of this, since Gashes inherently destroy everything up to the conceptual and something like Sequence Deviation is something he could handle just fine

How many layers? Koji's can bypass 3 layers of resistance to soul hax. It's a trait he gets from having 3 souls inside his sword.

Basically everyone in the Homewreckers can resist Warrane Ambre invoking the same on them (though they often get overwhelmed just because the guy can jack up the power so easily by the mechanics of his abilities, but we do see Blur pull it off against the baseline, which is someone exploding all the same)

Corruption's a little nebulous, but stuff like Penelope's property inducement and all manner of physical warping are something Triggers can live through, and the Lizard Wizard can heal at extreme speeds to a Low Godly extent for both of these

3 layers + corruption affects the soul/mind/concept etc as well so Low-Godly isn't gonna really do much lol.

Admittedly I never properly slotted this onto the page and I'd have to dig it up to properly have the scan at the ready in Imgur, but we have seen Triggers can "right" their personal timelines against a Random Event that ended up invoking different eras of time onto whoever it hit, and given Xander was both a lot weaker and didn't have Power Defense, the Lizard Wizard could probably just bar it from happening in the first place

I don't even know how these things are at all similar.

"invoking different eras of time" onto someone, and "hitting someone as though none of their history ever happened," seem to be very different things.

Kinda confused on this.

The Lizard Wizard just has a very high range of options, and he's bound to whip out whatever he thinks is useful. And considering tier restrictions only really bar him from (or at least, I think, I may be confused about the exact rules here) using the Tungsten Colossus, the Gash Basilisk and maybe the Chimera, that's a lot of painful stuff to throw out. The thing that made him really dangerous is just action economy, he can pull out creatures very easily and amass a horde as he uses his own body to attack an enemy alongside them.

Hoards of enemies probably aren't that useful since Koji can duplicate multiple times and also has explosive abilities that can span kilometers and target souls.

Nine Circles, for example, can turn every target within 15-kilometers into one of his bomb things. It also negates durability while simultaneously being an explosion that hits with 2235% more power than his current stat.

Something I didn't mention in terms of "he's a hax wall so good luck not instantly dying" for getting him into the Low 7-B placement is the fact he's a Bleed Elementite. What this means is that almost every ability he has specializes in ensangunating targets- it's not much, until you realize this is something that works on Triggers, and despite their innate regeneration, and also degraded at their Energy supplies. Heck, Xander having Rapid Regen and equating to the Lizard Wizard didn't stop him from having issues with recovering, and he basically had to totally circumvent it with Elena's Time Capsule (item that lets him revert temporally to heal all kinds of damage).

Arkanes resist blood manipulation?

Considering Triggers also have extreme stamina on top of that, even the endurance of Koji might have a timer get placed on it every time he gets a move like that off. And considering he's unpredictable/skilled enough to land shots on Xander Phoenix despite his own capabilities with precognition through analyzing numbers, those hits are liable to land as well.

Koji's got the stamina to spend days in a pocket dimension where he is being constantly drained of energy. He can also keep moving while impaled through the chest and abdomen by multiple spears, which should have killed him. (Type 2 immortality)

Koji's got some absurd skill stuff I can bring up as well. At a baseline he can perfectly predict trajectories and movements to the point of being able to replicate them in real time. He also has photographic memory which allows him to quickly memorize techniques and styles used against him.

This is without mentioning his multiple clones.

So I guess, beyond the sheer versatility, big move after big move firing off, the main thing here comes down to who actually lasts. The Lizard Wizard's resilience against regeneration negation (and Koji's lack of it, as far as I can discern) alongside just healing really fast and having the stamina to back that up when it wears down, and Polywanagonaland serving as a Phase 2 where even Triggers can't really directly hurt him (and he actively gains Energy from the blood of opponents, and he gains access to Loyalty where he can just teleport a swarm of Gash ants into enemies to inflict a bleed that negates Mid Godly)...

Well, unless he has many-layered soul resistance even one hit from Koji's blade could be deadly.


I shall wait for that main concern to be addressed.

 

[DMUA]

Amps that increase the base tier beyond that point are allowed in threads like these, even on main site.

Just a strange ruling to make for something specifically tied to the tiers someone is in, when Tier jumps are the one thing you're allowed to restrict (Outside of optional equipment and the likes)

Thing is everyone in Ark kinda inherently exists on levels like this so they aren't really unique in that regard. They'd be like normal humans.

Well like, aren't there characters who don't inherently hit the soul or mind? Triggers have to actively hold themselves back from hitting the soul or mind in order to incapacitate folks, just because they have full on bodies there, not just mental/spiritual cores

Speed is always equalized in strongest threads though. With the only caveat being that someone can tie a placement if they only beat someone through speed.

Guess something made me perceive the opposite

How many layers? Koji's can bypass 3 layers of resistance to soul hax. It's a trait he gets from having 3 souls inside his sword.

oh boy how fun layers

In case that doesn't indicate anything, I really just don't have interest in keeping track of this. The way we define it is a little nebulous and leads to things like Lobotomy Corporation having 26 layers of mindhax somehow, but let's take a shot at it

1. Shown by their violation of the rules of Biology, hitting them on a single layer doesn't really affect them significantly, with the spiritual layers being one of these
2. Frozen Mind gives an overt immunity to mental and spiritual manipulation, this doesn't help them avoid damage to those layers in fights with other Triggers
3. Gashes are a total annihilation of anything and everything, people who aren't attuned to the Energy Layer have a lot of trouble with damage on this scale, even if just standing in a Gash (Which causes normal humans to just vanish) is something they're attuned to. The Lizard Wizard is the best at this, short of the Worlds, exceeding every other Tower and Pawn

From there if one were to go the Lobotomy Corporation route, there are a bunch of distinct jumps in potency I can think of between the tier splits. There's also Power Defense boosting his resilience pretty notably from that jumping off point

3 layers + corruption affects the soul/mind/concept etc as well so Low-Godly isn't gonna really do much lol.

I have to emphasize the guy can regenerate pounds of flesh in heartbeats despite being hit with spiritual damage (which is regeneration negation, in Valhalla), he's certainly got a shot at fighting it off, especially if he pulls additional tricks to shake it off (namely, the corruption is a thing, and standing in a Red Gash totally annihilates anything and everything)

I don't even know how these things are at all similar.

"invoking different eras of time" onto someone, and "hitting someone as though none of their history ever happened," seem to be very different things.

If the event happening, in this case being brought to a prior point in history, is not supposed to be there, a Trigger can just tell it to go away. More prominently, inflicting this effect in the first place procced a Resistance roll, and The Lizard Wizard significantly beats out Warrane and Xander in this regard by just strength and Power Defense

Hoards of enemies probably aren't that useful since Koji can duplicate multiple times and also has explosive abilities that can span kilometers and target souls.

Nine Circles, for example, can turn every target within 15-kilometers into one of his bomb things. It also negates durability while simultaneously being an explosion that hits with 2235% more power than his current stat.

And all of those enemies are also resilient to the same stuff the Lizard Wizard is, with some of them not possessing a soul at all on account of being made from Red Gash. A lot of his stuff is also huge AOE, most notably Murder of the Universe being omnidirectional EE with Resistance Negation attached, FAMINEPULSE wiping out a 1 kilometer range (Which does prove a threat for Triggers, of course), Iron Lung creating a huge cone of flame that messes with the laws of atomic trajectory, the works (And at that, some of these have a chance or guarantee to cause Random Events, wide scale devastation through physics warping that has it's own tabber from the potential for things to get lethal). Warrane couldn't really pull his tricks to wipe them out en mass, Nine Circles is going to have issues too.

Arkanes resist blood manipulation?

And Triggers resist that kind of thing as well given it's apart of manipulating biology, it just doesn't stop it from being a concern with how hard he specializes in it (Especially since Butcher of Streets tried the same sort of tricks and basically got walled by Silas and Xander's Regeneration potency, which didn't quite happen when they were healing even faster against the Lizard Wizard)

Koji's got the stamina to spend days in a pocket dimension where he is being constantly drained of energy. He can also keep moving while impaled through the chest and abdomen by multiple spears, which should have killed him. (Type 2 immortality)

It's a factor, more than something to just win. Keep in mind the trick works against people who can endure even worse and regenerate through it, the latter of which Koji won't have the luxury of given the regeneration negation.

Koji's got some absurd skill stuff I can bring up as well. At a baseline he can perfectly predict trajectories and movements to the point of being able to replicate them in real time.

Xander can do this very thing, but The Lizard Wizard could still land solid shots (Most notably with Pigs On The Wings, where even Xander managing to get out of the way meant he got serrated by the resulting Red Gash)